Oculus changed the rules apparently, and I hate them

Discussion in 'Hardware' started by Skybird, Oct 7, 2018.

  1. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    A bit different, but VR related. Oculus plays foul on me since yesterday. I posted this in the general steam forum. The Oculus home forum seems to be a lost cause.

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    I have never bought a game via Oculus store, only use two free demos of theirs. Their software app and interface thus stays off most of the time, since Oculus is a tracking software and Oculus refuses to >fully< document what kind of data they collect from people's systems and online interctions. I have VR games bought via Steam exclusively. I used to launch them via desktop icons, or from the Steam interface.

    Yesterday morning i was greeted with the note that Oculus needs me to update my nvidia driver from 388.31 - to 388.31. Well, I took the opportunity to indeed update to not the same version as before, but a newer one. The headset did not work anymore due to the Oculus app not working without a driver "update" of my graphics card. So I deinstalled the driver and rebooted, installed 411.70 (that is the second-newest WHQL driver currently, to avoid the latest software added for the now pulled Windows-10 1809 messup I did not use the newer 417.xx), and was rewarded with an unwanted though apparently functioning newly designed Oculus interface.

    However, since then I cannot launchVR games via desktop icons and Steam interface anymore. The game may start, but only on the monitor - the headset stays dark, maybe an accoustic jingle gets played during game launching in the headsets earspeakers, that is all.

    However, when launching these steam-bought games via the Oculus library interface, the games work fine and the headset now springs to life.

    Before, it was possible to play steam-VR-games without the Oculus app running. Now it must run all the time - I assume to force people using the Oculus environment more, and to force them to accept that it can track and scan your doing and system all the time (because that is what it indeed does).

    I also need to hassle around with the VR controllers even for games that do not use them. Racing sims, for example. I used to launch Raceroom or Assetto corsa via mousclick on my desktop icons. Now I need to do it in that VR interface Oculus forces me to use. For Assetto corsa, it would not be needed.

    I hate it.
     
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  2. FormelLMS

    FormelLMS Well-Known Member

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    Hm, no problem here with latest Oculus Home, Steam VR and Nvidia Drivers.
    Home is blocked to start, Steam VR starts with Windows start and I'm good to go for racing.
     
  3. m.bohlken

    m.bohlken Well-Known Member

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    hm, strange - I have the same that @Skybird describes... and I don't like it, too. But I already have that since a few month... Especially that you are forced to press a button from the Oculus Controllers to confirm that warning-message annoys me most.

    The nVidia-Drivers have nothing to do with that. The new nVidia-Drivers are needed for a change how the VR-Headset interacts with the monitor-settings and for that there was a change in the oculus-drivers as well. Another thing I don't like as I'm having problems with the resizing of the screen now.
     
  4. FormelLMS

    FormelLMS Well-Known Member

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    Could you please explain, which warning message you mean?
     
  5. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    Clicking on game icons on desktop or in the Steam interface did not launch them anymore. Opening Oculus app opened the front page of its interface on monitor, and gave a message that "You need to update your graphics driver to version 388.31" . I was on version 388.31. The headset stayed dark, the app could not be navigated.

    After driver chnage to 411.70, the app was totally different looking. Games could only be laucnhed from the app's interface to have the being shown in the headset (icons and Steam left the headset dark, sometimes showed the the game on the screen only, moving when i moved the headset. Three games have no longer any sound.

    No changes done to the system in the past 2-3 weeks. No windows updates landed on my hardware in this time.
     
  6. m.bohlken

    m.bohlken Well-Known Member

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    I was talking about this message [​IMG]

    I guess it can be deactivated somewhere but haven't found it yet... unfortunately "any button" means, any button on any Oculus Controller - a button on Keyboard, Mouse or Wheel/Joystick is not working for that
     
  7. m.bohlken

    m.bohlken Well-Known Member

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    After starting Oculus Home, you should be able to use Steam or your Icons like you did before. You don't need to start the games from Oculus Home, but it must be running in the background.
     
  8. FormelLMS

    FormelLMS Well-Known Member

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    I never start Oculus home to make a ride on raceroom. Oculus home is blocked to administratorstart only.
    So I start Steam VR by windows start-up and then starting raceroom.
     
  9. m.bohlken

    m.bohlken Well-Known Member

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    When was the last time, you've started Oculus Home? End of last Month, Oculus released Oculus Core 2.0 in Public. Before it was only available in Beta. I have 2.0 since several month and during development-period that change came to my system.
     
  10. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    Believe it guys, it does not work that way any more. I do not like Occulus app running at all, and I used to launch games via Steam or desktop icons instead, with no Oculus running. (I have even an Oculus switch off app installed, and yes, if not needed, their webcams are covered. Microsoft has turned me into a paranoid with its twisted business policies.)

    IT DOES NOT WORK LIKE THIS ANYMORE, SINCE 2 DAYS. I have not bought any Oculus game for money, to "own" LOL the game without needing to depend on this company, so that I could not play their games if I ever leave Oculus behind, and so I bought them all via Steam.

    I am now FORCED to launch them via Oculus running app anyway. I MUST use the Oculus app interface to laucnh games now.

    And if Oculus network provides no internet connection - compared to Steam that happens quite often with them - then i cannot launch any of these games.

    Thats why I am so angry.
     
  11. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    Could be that this is the reason then why it looks all different now. Not that I asked for it or would care for it. Still, I cannot launch games without Occulus app running and using its interface - that is the problem.
     
  12. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    Probably delete all and everything and install all from scratch. Last option left to try out. If it does not work, its a big screw-up.
     
  13. FormelLMS

    FormelLMS Well-Known Member

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    Yesterday I've started Raceroom last without Oculus Home running.
    I don't know the programs you use to switch Oculus Home off but I think this is your problem you have.
    I only don't allow the Oculus Home (Yes, latest version) to start without administator rights (right click on the *.exe - Compatibility Mode - Start with Administrator rights. It never asks, except you start it manually)
    So Oculus Home isn't starting, there are no errors while starting games and I don't have to press buttons on my touch controller.

    Probably Oculus Home never updated since the end of the last month, but why shouldn't it? I will have a look this evening if I don't forget it.
     
  14. The Iron Wolf

    The Iron Wolf Well-Known Member

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    What's strange, I remember people reporting this happening after upgrade to 1803. I am on 1809, and still can run SVR without Oculus Home due to force admin hack, but others reported it no longer works.

    In any case, our days are counted, because next version of Oculus Dashboard will require it to run :( unless, someone will find a way to hack that. What an unbelievable nonsense this is.
     
  15. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    I deinstalled the nvidia driver again, and reinstalled another one, in safe mode, using DDU, with rebooting, the full program. That has given me back the sound that was missing in some games, also games now can be launched not just from the Oculus app, but via desktop icons and Steam interface as well - as long as the Occulus app is running in the background. Before, i could launch ACC without Oculus app running, now it has to run in the background.

    The app can be shut down after use, yes, but it leaves residuals in memory that stay active even with the app off and blocked, and as has been documented already earlier this year, it continues to transmit data. I wonder why, they really do their best to raise and feed suspicions. Belonging to facebook does nothing to fight that suspicion.

    Good to have all this on an isolated gaming platform only, not my main system. If this were my main system were I do all other stuff beside gaming, I would reinstall the full system by now, and sell Oculus.
     
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  16. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    The small software is called Oculus Switch. It is not launched on system booting and thus canot block or allow anything if not started manually.
    Note what i said above about Oculus app just being closed. Active residuals stay in memory and continue to send data from the system, even with the app off and the headset not in use. They so far have always refused to comment on this, as far as I know.

    They really press me hard to have their app activated at least once. Very dubious.
     
  17. FormelLMS

    FormelLMS Well-Known Member

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    No man. Oculus won't start here if I do not force it. It isn't opening and I close it.
    Oculus App Version is 1.30.0.676007, there is no update incoming.
    Nvidia Driver is 416.16
    Windows is on 1803 (Build 17134.320)

    Maybe I've did something wrong.
     
  18. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    I never said that it does this. I say that without Oculus app now (manually, by me!) opened, I cannot play any game, cannot launch games outside Oculus app. The app hijacked the options provided by Steam or my desktop icon collection to start games without OC app. That way I am forced to use their interface (and obviously am open to them tracking my computer behavior).

    Additional problem is they keep on extracting data packages form my system even when OC is not being used and the app is off. It was documented alreaedy last winter, that was when i first read about it. Its a known issue they do not comment on and refuse to answer questions on, and is known since even before it became known that the sensors can be hacked and then used for sending black-and-white live image data of what the webcam (thats what the sensors are in principle, with an added IR ability) can see. Which is one of the reaosns why I do not want the app to ever start even just once. - From this point of view, OC behaviour now necessarily must appear as an attempt to force users nevertheless to get tracked both during oculus sessions - and beyond.
    Thats why I have two little cloths thrown over the sensors when not playing, and the oculus mike switched off (I hope it is, after all its just a software switch).

    Oculus Switch is a small app that was designed to suppress this problem. If needs to be manually called up, and then offers a simple on-off switch in the task bar that blocks Oculus and its dubious data thing. Its meant for times when oculus is not used, nevertheless sends stuff.

    These times have taught me and some others that it is a mistake to assume that companies always tell the truth, only want harmless service-related data and track you for improving th ergonomy of their product. When Oculus is not used, it obviously is pointless to track telemetry data on how the users uses it and what movements he does.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2018
  19. FormelLMS

    FormelLMS Well-Known Member

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    Ok, my apologies here. Seems that I was the lucky one, driving without the latest. Since today I'm in the same boat.
    Yes, I've been asking myself if this has any impact to raceroom, because home stops in the Oculus, when launching R3E.
    What I didn't try is, to start R3E in the Oculus home library on the screen.
     
  20. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    You should be able to launch any VR game from Steam via Steam entry or icon on desktop if only you launch Oculus Home before. The interface must be running, and even if their shop says "no connection" you still should be able to launch games.

    If you fail to get Oculus Home up and running, then you are screwed. None of your Steam VR games then will launch.

    I must have it running even for ACC, although ACC doe snot get listed in Oculus Home library.

    Its underhanded, and a royal mess in my book. OIne reason more to absolutely dislike Facebook.

    Note that once Oculus home was running, you cannot really shut down ALL its components anymore without rebooting, even if you close its window via the X-box at the top right corner. You can open taskmanager and may not see any suspicious entries, yes, but it was documented earlier this year that even if you shut down Home, a relic of Oculus software components remains active in the memory, small and tiny and unobtrusive,active and sending data of any kind, constantly, even if you do not use Oculus headset at all. Tools like "OculusSwitch" are meant to suppress this behaviour. You launch it, and get an icon in the task bar. Clicking on it allows you to toggle Oculus on and off. If off, the headset will not work at all even if you have Oculus Home running. Dont ask me if these tools really work.

    Have not found out all this myself, I just have read about all this earlier this years.

    I have never bought any game via Oculus shop right because in case of a headset change being able to still launch these games with another headset form another manufacturer. I only have a few free demos from the Oculus shop. It seesm Oculus does not like this kind of avpoidance and now puts pressure on users to use their interface no matter whetehr they want it or not. They probably hope that this will soften up resistence to their shop.

    I can understand them to track headset movements. But that they still extract data form my system when the itnerfac eis off and the headset sits still and dark in the shleves, I have no tolerance for. Even more so since Facebook is behind them and the sensors have been demonstrated to be hackable and show black-white webcam images. And there is the microphone. I have it off in the software options, but that is just software. Software provides neither security nor certainty. One day I will pick up a needle and destroy that mike, I swear it. Dont need it anyway.

    Microsoft led tghe way with W10, and now others follow its exmaple: peeing on customers' desire or demand or allowance or lack of allowance, has become a new business model of the great IT companies, namely the "big Five". We are the both ore they collect and refine, and the product they sell. Our profiling data - that is what it all is about. Our privacy and their business models are mutually exclusive.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2018 at 12:39 AM