[Official] Complete car physics/AI status lookup - updated 20/03/2021

Discussion in 'Car Information and physics updates' started by Alex Hodgkinson, May 23, 2020.

  1. Alex Hodgkinson

    Alex Hodgkinson Sector3 Developer

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  2. FeltHλt

    FeltHλt Well-Known Member

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    tyres v1 means its old right? but wasnt gt1 class updated? unless everything except tyres were updated :p
     
  3. rad

    rad Well-Known Member

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    I think V1 means that is on first iteration by Alex, empty means of tires.

    Need to check out WTCCs, didn't know they're on new tires
     
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  4. pasquale1986

    pasquale1986 Member

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    The 981 GT4 CS MR Trophy should be Paddle Shift shouldn't it
     
  5. Arthur Spooner

    Arthur Spooner Well-Known Member

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    Superb information! Thanks a lot for the effort!

    Just one question: empty means something like "before you were working for S3", right?

    And a little nitpick about the gearbox. I think most will know what you mean, but...
    Manual should be H-pattern.
    Sequential should be Sequential with stick.
    Paddle
    should be Sequential with paddles.
     
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  6. Nir Tal

    Nir Tal Well-Known Member

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    Great info, especially with the last few game updates that were confusing about physics/tire changes.
    What was changed in TireV4 compared to V3 ?
     
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  7. Torned The Bullet

    Torned The Bullet Active Member

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    Very useful, thank you, but is it possible to have a spreadsheet version?
     
  8. Vale

    Vale Well-Known Member

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    I would request adding the PI classification of each car and whether it has been BOP´d or not in the case of categories like GT3. If I am not mistaken, the Gt3s released before the McLaren 650 have not been matched to post 2017 releases.
     
  9. Goffik

    Goffik Well-Known Member

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    Pretty sure the entire class was BoP'd well after 2017, and has had tweaks since.
     
  10. Vale

    Vale Well-Known Member

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    If all people winning are driving is the post 2017 cars, that suggests they are faster. Never seen a Bentley or an MP4 win, for instance.
     
  11. Arthur Spooner

    Arthur Spooner Well-Known Member

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    That's correct, but this is a quite recent issue. I think it was the December '19 update that brought a new physics iteration to the GT3 cars and if I'm not mistaken, this was the point when the "older" GT3 cars were not up to pace with the "newer" ones anymore. And this has even more recently been corrected for the McLaren 650S GT3 - not yet for the MP4-12C. The 650S is up to pace now again. I guess and hope the other "older" models will follow this path at some point.

    I guess the reason for this is mainly testing resources. It takes huge amounts of time to BoP-out all of the GT3 cars, especially because they are so different in characteristics. Quite a few of them are well known for high topspeeds and not so good cornering, like for example the Camaro. IRL these cars have a different BoP on different kinds of tracks. Otherwise a Camaro would be unbeatable on a track like Monza compared to the BMW Z4. But in RaceRoom we only have one BoP for all tracks. Still you need to make the Camaro kind of competitive on all tracks without it being unbeatable on some and being totally destroyed on others - and all of this without removing its characteristics. Quite a difficult task I'd say... ;)

    And while I always had a soft spot for the BMWs in GT3, I don't like that the M6 is a little bit OP at the moment. I don't like to drive OP cars. So I hope it gets BoP'd at some point too, even if this costs me some places... :cool:
     
  12. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    Why? In real life I guess they do it to try to make each team's chances closer to each other and less dependant on what circuits are on the calendar this season. In the game, however, you're not stuck with one car for years, so the devs aren't pressured so much to make it as even as possible for everyone on every circuit.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
  13. Vale

    Vale Well-Known Member

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    In the end it´s all about money as a rich team can just upgrade to a newer car, likewise in RRE people will just by a newer car, which is logical as who would buy a newer car if it was slower?

    The problem is for people who just want to buy a basic pack as they won´t be competitive - even the McLaren is still a little off the pace. Also, there is less incentive to buy the older cars so it is swings and roundabouts.
     
  14. Arthur Spooner

    Arthur Spooner Well-Known Member

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    If BoP is bad everybody will drive the same car on a given track. This is so boring and lame...

    And do you remember when the AMG GT3 was the fastest GT3? When there were official competitions and/or leagues with ADAC GT Masters for example, nearly everybody drove the AMG. These kind of races are are broadcasted and they are sponsored. Nobody wants to see their sponsor money spent on such a boring race.

    And in leagues you usually are stuck with one car.
     
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  15. Vale

    Vale Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. It´s true that some cars like Camaro and Mustang cost up to 50% less than the newer ones in shop, so with them you get what you pay for I guess.

    With other classes like DTM92, modern DTM or WTCR the cars are more or less evenly matched whilst still having individual character.

    ACC seems to have managed it with their Gt3s so it is not impossible, time and resources permitting.
     
  16. Arthur Spooner

    Arthur Spooner Well-Known Member

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    Well, so far RaceRoom has never been on a "pay to win" route. BoP is a tricky task and difficult to get 100% correct, so there have been issues with it in the past, but the devs and testers are always looking to get it as good as possible. The quite frequent changes to physics lately surely doesn't make this easier, but at some point they will surely catch up as physics changes will become less frequent when they come closer and closer to reality. At least I hope so. But at some point the possibilities of the physics must be considered as more or less exhausted. Otherwise you're changing the base of the simulation all the time, which is good up to some point, but has to stop at another point to make the sim a stable platform again.
     
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  17. fischhaltefolie

    fischhaltefolie Well-Known Member

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    Maybe it's time to create sub classes of cars, which raced together. So BoP could be balanced within this reduced number of cars.
     
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  18. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    The only alternative for that is effectively killing the performance of all the "specialized" cars so that there's no chance of them stealing the competition on any track. Is it better?

    BOP is already bad in GT3, any leaderboard confirms that there's a handful of competitive cars which are also pretty balanced for different kinds of tracks, and then there are all the other cars that barely have any chances no matter the track.

    Look at Monza GP leaderboard, 600+ entries, very special track. Yet I don't see any Mustangs or Camaros on top, it's all the same cars again: Porsche, Callaway Corvette, Audi, BMW, only AMG is missing. And only after 1+ sec we start getting any variety in a form of occasional 650s or Bentleys.

    Is THIS really better than having a different field on some tracks with unusual features?
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2020
  19. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    I don't think the price of cars should be taken into concideration. Premuim pack that has all the content in the game, costs 65 Eur. That's 100+ cars (and 45 tracks). For me that's quite a fair price for a game that you sunk hundreds of hours in.

    Also, we're talking about cars that are outliers - those that are only exceptionally good on a few tracks and subpar on all the others. Missing one car like that won't make you "not competitive".
     
  20. Nico Kunze

    Nico Kunze Well-Known Member

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    That one second isnt neccessarily representative tho (cant check whether it actually is on my phone). All the quick guys couldve put in a lap in the bentley that was only a tenth slower than their best lap in one of the usual cars and you wouldnt be able to tell by looking at that leaderboard. And i can only speak for myself but i wouldnt touch the mustang for example even if i knew i could top the leaderboard with it :D
    So as i said a leaderboard isnt neccessarily representative for the bop (although chances are the modern cars are in fact still the fastest so this is more of a technicality in this case)
     
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