Opinions wanted about RRE physics

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by jbfan, Jun 5, 2019.

  1. jbfan

    jbfan Member

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    Hello All,
    I hope this doesn't turn into a rant, but let me start by saying I understand that what I'm asking is almost completely subjective and based on opinions. Having said that, I'm curious what you guys think about the car physics in RRE in comparison to real life?
    I realize that many people say RF2, Automobilista, & Assetto Corsa are more realistic (just to name a few) but why does RRE seemingly get so many non favorable reviews in terms of physics? For me, RRE is absolutely my favorite sim and clearly there is "no perfect sim", but as a whole, I feel that RRE is the best "package".
    For most of us, I believe the bottom line is "just play what you enjoy" and that is very true, but the geeky, techy side of me is fascinated by what goes into creating these fine pieces of art that we enjoy so much. Specifically the feedback that developers receive from real world drivers, the testing, the track scanning/observations, etc. and how all of that is then interpreted into these amazing sims.
    Would love to hear what you guys know about the "behind the scenes" of RRE and how close it really is to reality. This is not intended to bash Sector 3 or RRE, so please refrain from doing so. I, like many, don't know how it feels to drive one of these cars in real life, so I'm curious how close my favorite sim gets me to that. Honestly, the only things I wish could be improved in RRE are the damage model and an offline mode, but those are somewhat minor in my opinion.
    Thanks and I look forward to hearing what you guys have to say.
    God Bless
     
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  2. yoori

    yoori Well-Known Member

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    I think it's realistic.
     
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  3. Georg Ortner

    Georg Ortner KW Studios Developer

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    When RaceRoom came out years ago it was in quite a different state.
    One that admittedly didn't help the image of the game.

    Even after years of constant updates and improvements, it's difficult to change people's minds, based off their first impressions.

    Also when trying different sims, it's easy to dismiss something that doesn't feel like the thing you are used to.
    Many only scratch on the surface, not allowing for enough time to acclimatize to the cars and their handling.

    I can assure you, the attention to detail that goes into the physics modelling in RaceRoom is very high, and i think recent results are very convincing :)

     
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    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
  4. Zziggy

    Zziggy Well-Known Member

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    I didn´t ever drive a racing car so I can´t judge. But what about drivers like Jan Seyffarth who testdrove R3E/Mercedes AMG GT3 on Nordschleife and judged "Too Easy, too forgiving". I think maybe he used the default setup with 25% traction control (he also noted that he didn´t understand why the time was so bad) and wrote him about it but no answer yet.
     
  5. jbfan

    jbfan Member

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    Yoori,
    Thank You for providing a good reference to consider!! Great information.

    Georg,
    One thing I admire about Sector 3 is how well you guys interact and listen to your customers/fans.
    I greatly appreciate the attention to detail that you all put into every aspect of this sim and I am proud to be a loyal customer & fan.
    Thank You for sharing some great insight on your attention to detail and I appreciate that it is reflected in the vast improvements within this great sim.
    I agree that it is difficult to change some people's opinions and it is unfortunate because the quality of this sim is worth taking the time to "fine tune" it
     
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  6. Arcson

    Arcson Well-Known Member

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    I always wondered how close sims are to real life in terms of lap times comparability. I mean, even though there are a lot of tracks and cars, lap times of each combo should match the reality. You can't shorten the track here and there or add some extra power to the car just to find the balance as the track would no longer look like the real one and the car wouldn't match other tracks anyway, it's obvious. How it's done then? How complex is it?

    Also, the speeds. Sometimes it seems like 60kph in pitlane doesn't feel exactly the same as 60kph in my real Honda Civic. But this may be coming down to fov being not perfectly set up. One way or another, in Raceroom 60 kph feels slower :p

    What is worth mentioning though, sometimes when I need to drive somewhere in real life shortly after racing in Raceroom (especially WTCR) it feels unbelieveably familiar :p
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2019
  7. David Peres

    David Peres Well-Known Member

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    I cannot compare sims to real life because I don't drive race cars, so I can only compare it with other sims, which is probably a flawed way to go about this, but...

    Raceroom feels very good to me, and it's getting better all the time, but compared with Automobilista and the best cars in rFactor 2 it's not quite "there yet" for me. My biggest problem with Raceroom is that you HAVE to overdrive the car in order to be fast, because the game is forgiving enough that you can do that and it makes you faster. It doesn't feel right... but it sure is fun.

    My other issue with Raceroom is how the tarmac feels very smooth from what I'm used to in other sims. I feel some bumps but they tend to be vague and lacking in detail... it's not a matter of FFB settings becouse if I up the vertical FFB too much it starts to overwhelm all other details and yet the tarmac will still feel too smooth. I don't know if it's an issue with the suspenssion model and how it reacts to the surface or if it's due to the technique that Sector 3 uses for the physical mesh... or something else.

    Despite these crticisms I love Raceroom, mostly due to the content and FFB and generally just how fun it is as a package, but I understand why some people would think it's too easy and forgiving. For example, the Group C cars in Raceroom are probably the easiest Group C cars I ever drove in a sim... but they're still great.

    TL;DR - The physics in Raceroom feel great, immersive and fun, and the new cars by Alex are getting better and better all the time, but there's a couple areas that I would like to see improved to get up there with the best (which for me is Automobilista).
     
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  8. ducman888

    ducman888 Well-Known Member

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    Although there are aspects of other sims I prefer, as a package I feel R3E is the best experience from the time you log on to log off.
     
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  9. Turtle Power

    Turtle Power Well-Known Member

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    Raceroom cars feel well connected with the user/driver. Sounds are spot on and that also makes a huge difference. Some older releases are left in the dark but the new ones are just mind blowing. I cant imagine how good it will be when DD support kicks in.
     
  10. Alex Hodgkinson

    Alex Hodgkinson KW Studios Developer

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    I think that the vast majority of comments about our car behaviour are based on the older content, of which there is a lot. I'd call anything released or updated further back than 18 months ago older content, by the way. So we've got one eye on going through and updating said content.
     
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  11. Skidmark

    Skidmark Well-Known Member

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    There's also this weird thing where people equate realistic with really difficult.

    The logic goes something like...

    Real racing cars are hard to drive
    This sim racing car is hard to drive
    Therefore this sim racing car is real(istic)

    Apply this faulty logic and difficulty becomes an end in itself: "My sim is really hard so it's very realistic."

    My guess is that most racing cars are not all that hard to drive at, say, 80-90% of the limit BUT they are enormously difficult to drive very fast on or near the limit. It's an important distinction which gets lost in the endless rants about this sort of...

    ...hang on I think I've just launched into an endless rant.

    Stopping now.
     
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  12. Arthur Spooner

    Arthur Spooner Well-Known Member

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    I post this video whenever I get the opportunity to do so, mostly because I like it so much... ;)



    Just listen to what the driver says about the behaviour of this car. Who would have thought that this describes a Ferrari racecar from the sixties...? :cool:
     
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  13. dentalfloss

    dentalfloss Member

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    In general the physics seem fine. The suspension model is far better than that of AC and ACC. The drivetrain model easily outclasses rF2's simple arcade one.

    The only major flaws with the game are a lack of dynamic track and asymmetrical setups. I'm hoping this will be addressed soon.
     
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  14. David Peres

    David Peres Well-Known Member

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    I might be guilty of this... but I have no way to know if that's the case or not, so I can only go with what feels right to me. It's a very scientific process :D
     
  15. Turtle Power

    Turtle Power Well-Known Member

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    I said this many times before. If the car feels right and well connected, that is the point. Also, a lot comes down to what gear you use e.g. consumer wheels or DD. Not to talk about the setting etc.....
     
  16. SunnySunday

    SunnySunday Well-Known Member

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    To me everything feels really good in raceroom except one thing, and that is the tires. With many other sims developing new more sophisticated tire models with tire flex etc it really starts to feel outdated in raceroom unfortunately. I still enjoy the hell out of it, but it definitely lacks behind rf2, acc and pc2 in regards to tire model. At least that's what i'm feeling driving it. But it exceeds in many other areas though so it does not mean it is less realistic than others. And yes also what alex pointed out, the older content does feel alot less realistic than the new. FR90 feels like the best s3 has released so far!
     
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  17. Turtle Power

    Turtle Power Well-Known Member

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    Interesting and you are pretty much spot on. The tire model is getting better, everything is getting better. I my opinion, the best release and the best feel is found in GT 2 cars, Porsche GT3 911 cup, Carrera 911, FRJ, WTCR 2018 as well as the latest FR90 (with exception of weak default FFB). If I had to pick only one, the GT2 is the winner.
     
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  18. Eisprinzessin

    Eisprinzessin Well-Known Member

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    And he is right.

    As i drove Racecars i can only agree with him. I think Raceroom is a good fun spending racing game with a little claim to be a simulation.

    As i mentioned before, simulating motorsports is not only to sit in the car, rather to be a mechanic. And here is inho the biggest "problem" of Raceroom. Go in the car setups of the different cars and you know what i mean. Every car has the same ranges, tire pressure, temps, etc etc. I understand everyone who is satisfied with it, because he wanna drive not screw. But simulationwise its a big minus.

    Here we come to the point that Raceroom is good - i call it - simcade. Sitting in the car gives a good feeling, but to be honest you can realy do VERY much mistakes without getting the consequences. Like Jan said. But again: Yeah, its cool to race with it. Sliding doesnt affect the tires in the way it does in real. Flat spots...graining....everything what is important in a race is missing. And if you loose downforce (Strömungsabriss) in a GT3 car, youre gone...

    I remember the days of GP Legends from Papyrus. Way to hard for the large part of the players base and so a failure.
     
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  19. Alex Hodgkinson

    Alex Hodgkinson KW Studios Developer

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    @Eisprinzessin

    I chose my words carefully in the above statement, because our GT3 cars fall just outside that time frame, and they are also undergoing updates ;)
     
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  20. Eisprinzessin

    Eisprinzessin Well-Known Member

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    Sure, Alex. I speak (and what can i do else?) of the state of now.

    Looking forward for the Updates for sure.
     
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