Places where AI speed / behaviour needs some work

As suggested here

https://forum.sector3studios.com/index.php?threads/ai-behaviour.1431/page-2#post-16220

I thought I'd start a thread to collect up track / corner specific AI issues. I've been running mainly GT2 and DTM2014 since the update so I'm not sure if these issues are common to all the AI - I expect they are as it's quite consistent for the classes I've tried. There seems to be a general issue in the high speed turns when accelerating hard while turning - they don't seem to be slowed down by understeer / scrubs much as the player.


Edit: I should also mention that use the default car setups



Brands Hatch: Too slow through Paddock Hill and Druids (t1 & 2); too fast out of the last corner

Bathurst: Brake a little early for chicane at the top of the mountain, too fast out of Forrest's Elbow (might be my bad driving I suppose), sometimes they lift for the kink on Conrod straight, there seem to be a lot of crashes exiting the chicane at the end of conrod

Zandvoort: their line is a bit off as they go up the hill after the left hand hairpin (t5 & t6 I think) - they run a bit wide and lose some speed, they brake a little early for the chicane, and are too fast out of the last corner

Oscherslaben: Too slow though the chicane (t7 / t8?) and brake too early for t3, too slow through the double left of t4 / t5, too slow in the last 2 corners

Hockenhiem: Brake a little late for the hairpin and sometimes get on the gas too soon and run wide, other times they're slow accelerating out of the hairpin, too fast out of the right hander that leads onto the original circuit (t 7 i think)

Nurburgring GP: brake a little late for t1

Hungaroring: too slow out of the fast right hander at the end of the twisty section (t11 I think), brake too early and are too slow for t13 (second to last corner)

Redbull Ring (Speilburg): brake a bit early and too slow into t1, too fast out of t6 (fast right hander), a bit fast out of the last corner (t8)

Sachsenring: too slow into t3 (the long right hander), too fast through the double left after going under the bridge (t7 / t8?)

Indianapolis GP: too slow t6 (onto the back straight), too slow through t9 (sharp left near the end of the lap), too fast exiting the last corner (on the banking)

 

At least a information about AI strength and time spend on track would be useful. I´m sure that some people whoe spend a half hour on a track will have another opinion about in which corners the AI is to slow or to fast then people who spend 20 hours on a track, or have another setup or a generally fast. The gap between a good guy and an alien guy with good setup and experience can be 5 seconds or even more.

 

Fair point. I have the AI on 102 for the GT2s and 106 or 107 for the DTM 2014. In places where I've said the AI is too fast, I have run quite a lot of laps to be reasonably confident of this. The areas where they're too slow are pretty obvious. I'm no alien, BTW

 

I was driving WTCC 2013 around Zandvoort and noticed that 1 in 4 AI go too fast, run wide and then hit the wall in corner 1 on the corner exit. I drove slowly around that corner in my 2nd lap so I could observe this some more, and found out that it was consistent 1 in 4 AI driving into the wall.

 

On Shanghai, the AI slow just a bit too much here (not sure corner names or numbers so I'll just share a screenshot).

 

That's turn 1 lol.

 

But in the very end of the corner the AI speeds up a bit too fast onto the straight in my mind...

 

That long straight that ends in the oh crap curve just throws me off. Thats like six turns in one. Apologies Dave haha

 

Going to chip in here because AI are vastly improved but still need work.
For the record have decided to focus on RRE as I am impressed with the progress so the input below is meant to be constructive.

Hockenheim DTM 2014 with AI at 100% with them and me doing lap times around 1:35 and 1:36

1. AI too slow into and through Turn 2 - good area for humans to overtake but unrealistic imo
2. Hairpin is a big problem they ram you hard unless you hug the inside and also most run way wide exiting the hairpin
The cause seems to be is they brake very late, and somehow manage to make the hairpin - those that don't go wide off track and rejoin with much speed scrubbed off
If I brake where they brake there is no way I can make the hairpin. But i f I brake as late as I can at 150 board they ram me, if I go inside and brake at 150 board by the time I get to the hairpin apex I have to avoid them as they are too slow at this point.
This area needs work.
3. At times AI seem to be able to get much more exit speed entering and exiting the final SudKurve (Turn 16) and can shove you off on the exit.
4. AI at times too slow through Turn 1 in race mode

Other notes:
1. Pitstops seem too complicated - enter pits third and within 3 seconds of leader and leave stone last by a mile. Should be easier to implement before race - after all in real DTM driver enters pits, crew does their thing, driver leaves pits - simple.
In RRE driver has to do too much - I think... unless someone can give me a proper lesson on RRE pitstops...
Hence suggestion: have an option to practice pitstops
2. In Championship mode each time I did a restart (several!!!) I was placed in wrong car - I was on pole and was placed in P2 car on the grid. So had to leave the race, back to UI screen and then go through the reload championship process = tedious.

But all in all a blast to drive in 21 laps race but bummer when pitstops when I 'messed up' the pitstops and too many forced restarts by due to hairpin carnage!

I think Oschersleben is next....

 

From memory they are too fast in most slow corners... On most tracks.

 

Goood morning class and welcome to this years "PMS" course...stop the giggling please *sigh*, that's short for Pitting Made Simple (*gosh I hate my life).

By now there are pitstop presets in the pre-race menu in which you can set what works should be done on your car before even pressing the ignition button, simply create a preset, give it a cutesy little name ladies, and already and amazingly we're halfway done.
One thing we want to make sure is that we have a preset that does not include any repairs, just tyre changing, so we don't have to stand around all day, waiting for that moron with the duct tape to return from the loo, right?

Now all we need to do is assign two easy to reach buttons for two esential functions, pit in request and pit limiter, I for one am using the space bar and a button on my controller for those.

And there we are, ready to hit the pits hard and smell the sweet scent of victory. Now all we have to do during a race is hit the space bar, or whatever key you might have assigned to request a pit in, and once we get near the pits activate the pit limiter so we don't receive yet another totally unjustified speeding ticket from the authorities, FIGHT THE POWER....erm...excuse me.

After we reached the pit lane and that nanny-state auto pilot steals the control over our bodies and what we do with them we have all the time in the world to hit the enter key to confirm our selected preset and we are done.
See, almost as easy as changing a tampon.

Class dismissed, now where did I put my papa's little helper hip flask?

 

You've listed the one where they lift off at the kink too much at Bathurst.

At Zolder, turn 3 or 4 (the one leading onto the back straight) the AI are slow and take a strange line, very easy to pass on the exit of the corner as a result.

 

DTM 2014 with AI at 100% at Oschersleben - plenty work to do with AI here

AI way off the pace doing 1:26 (real lap times in 2014 were 1:20 to 1:22 zone) and in a few laps I was down to 1:24 with traffic)

Behaviour of AI on lap of Oschersleben:

• Brake too early into T1
• Could be quicker into and through Hasseröder and Triple
• Very slow through the chicane before McDonalds
• Could speed up through Shell and Amman Kurves
• Could speed up through Zeppelin final turn

Going to crank them up to 120% and see if this improves AI performance.

 

I am very new to Raceroom ( 3.5 weeks in ) and have done alot of my running at Osterschleben because I love this track ! I do find the AI slow in the quick right/left/right chicane sequence in both the WTCC 2014 and ADAC GT cars. Otherwise the AI have given me a very good race at this track at 110 difficulty. I have to say I have just gotten into PC sims coming over from consoles and my goodness this game is exactly what I was looking for ! Strong AI is my top priority in any racing game and Sector 3 seem to excel in this area !

 

Have tried AI at 110 and 120 at Oschersleben but they still are too slow in certain sectors and way too fast in others. Not shy to ram you aggressively into corners when they deem you too slow. AI needs tweaking. On the upside, with AI chasing at 120 strength my lap times dipped into the 1:23 zone whch is good for my level but is still way off the alien (and Spengler's) 1:19s!
Time to leave Oschersleben - think I will tackle Norisring next....

 

I am surprised to not see the hairpin in Macau being listed already. AI get stuck all too often there.

What is needed is defining that part of the track as "no-overtaking", like in reality. Practically every AI race gets ruined currently. Sector3 really needs to defuse this. By AI logic alone it probably cannot be done (is there any sim's AI that could handle that turn?) , so have special rules for that passage like there are for pitlane driving. Or an artificial separation of car bodies enforced by the sim. An immediate and automatic lining up if a car touches the wall and stands queer. Or ghost cars (problem ahead once the passage is left behind and two car bodies maybe share the same point in space on exit).

Something must be done about this hairpin.

 

After several hours trying to race and tweak AI settings - have given up because they are simply too fast in some places or too slow in other places on just about every track. This area needs a great deal of work... and I for one will probably stic to leaderboard stuff.
My thoughts are:
There are so few (if any) sims with good AI to race offline that one would think a developer (eg.RRE) would take the challenge and develop this 'science' and deliver a unique product: a sim you can race against offline and enjoy the AI - then develop the Multiplayer element which will see them go up against iRacing's benchmark MP system - IMO another ball game altogether when it comes to technology and resources.

 

Came here to report this:

 

I'd just say they are way to slow generally on Brands Hatch...

 

The AI in the Racerrom is good, BUT:
They are really slow for me. I'm not the pro or alien simracer, but example:

Brands Hatch & Volvo 240 Turbo in the Single Race:

120% AI settings:
The best qual time for the AI: 48.9

Adaptive AI settings:
The best qual time for the AI: 48.6

My time: with the default setup! is 47.7!

I hope the AI are improved the next patch, I'm hopeful that the AI is better and better. I'm primarily an offline player, but I'm not enjoy with the races and quals now.

Maybe more options, example 80->140%, or better Adaptive learning for AI....

Please Sector 3, it"s very important for me!

This is the Adaptive AI - Qual screenshot. And yes, my name is Renato