I'm having a bit of a hard time with some your comments. I think maybe you have some somewhat unrealistic expectations here. Try to remember that this isn't just a computer game, that there are actually people on the other end who are trying to make a living in some very hard times. Do you walk into your local grocery store and say, "I buy the same groceries every week so I think I should get a permanent discount on those products"? No, you don't, so why are you asking for it now? The whole point of having a sale is to introduce new customers to your product, the Idea that you should always have that discount from then on is kind of ludicrous. Try to think about how much goes into a game like this, Sector Three is a pretty small company as software developers go. There is a whole bunch of things happening you and I don't know about. I've been playing R3E since 2015, when I first got into it, they had experience packages. I bought the DTM package to get started, I don't remember what it cost, don't really care either. It got me into the game beyond the current free content, and I didn't expect to be given a discount on all the DTM stuff after that. I own all the tracks and about 1/3rd of the cars, and spent maybe $400 US at the most, over 7 years, and most of it I bought at the regular price because I like this sim and want to support the devs. They have updated a lot of stuff since then and did it all for free to anyone who already owned that content. And there are some other things they do as well. For instance, with the WTCR, let's say you own one of 2020s and you want to buy the 2021 model, correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you only have to pay for the new skin if it's the same car? Anyway, I've said more than I planned to, and I could go on and on, I just wanted to give some of you a little perspective. There are a lot of good people here and I think they deserve a bit more respect.
Those tracks were released less than 2 years ago only as standalone DLCs, right? Is there a different price for them depending on when you bought the base game?
If you own any previous year version/s of a 2021 WTCR then the price for 1 new skin is 2 euros compared to 4 for someone who doesn´t own the car. That could seem fair but perhaps not when compaed with ADAC/Gt3 where it´s only 30 cents per skin. The full car pack works out slightly cheaper too but the WTCR car packs have actually doubled in price since 2019 while offering less content than before too. Actually, that´s maybe where the beef with the Premium Pack lies as car and track prices have been going up every year whereas the pack stays the same price. If you bought it in 2015 then apart from less content, the individual elements also cost less so the difference between the pack and items was not so high. The Pro pack, for instance is substantially worse value for money compared to buying the items individually. Unfortuately, the grocery store comparison is not valid as they didn´t sell you everything in the shop for a fixed price at any stage, unless maybe they were closing down or it was going bad! I´d also much prefer food and petrol prices from 7 year ago compared to the current ones. In my personal business line of training, I keep the same monthly fees for clients who are still with me continuously since they started, so older loyal ones pay less than newer ones. If they quit and come back then they pay the current price. Many schools do the same. The commercial philosphy of giving a better deal to newer customers seems to be more prevalent in the tech and services sectors where there is cut throat competition and companies need to steal clients from their rivals but this can also benefit exiting ones. Who hasn´t at one time contacted their insurance, phone or internet provider threatening to leave if they don´t give them the same or better price as a new customer?
Now this it getting ridiculous. It's almost as if you didn't read my comments. (Maybe confused me with someone else?) 1) I proposed two changes: make older DLCs cheaper with time; introduce a price cap of 10k vRP on your purchase so you don't need to create a new account. 2) I drew parallels with other games where it's common for older DLCs to get cheaper and cheaper. Which of these are unreasonable or untrue?
We're talking about digital goods, so we should stick to what's happening in the digital market. Physical goods are different, therefore it's offtopic. You won't ask for a discount on a car, but it's not uncommon to get a special discount on a new version of software if you own a previous one. Although it's less common with videogames.
So now the sale is over, out of interest I added all unowned items to cart and the total came to 2989 vRP. Any items that could have been bought in packs such as WTCR 21 were. That´s having bought the premium pack 11 months ago and having bought Indy oval, Assen, Nogaro and DTM 21 already. Therefore, that´s almost 6k vRP for less than a year´s content at normal prices - it comes to about 45 euros if vRP with 30% discount had been used and 35 euros with a bit of vRP left over if you were able to buy everything with vRP during the sale (except for Interlagos). Extrapolated over a 5 year period the minimum cost to acquire all new content if released at the same frequency and assuming no price increases would be 65+35+35+35+35 = 205 euros or 41 euros a year and that´s taking advantage of the annual sale, bulk vRP and one time only packs. Setting up a new account to buy the Premium Pack again would therefore work out cheaper every 3 years. Using steam funds and buying items on release would increase those costs to about 350 euros and the worst case scenario of buying stuff without using packs could indeed be closer to 700 euros.
And I still don't understand why you want to buy all that content. Will you drive it extensively? If yes, every single one of them is worth it, especially on sale. If no, don't buy it. Simple. The only reason the price is so high is because you want to buy everything. I already have a few WTCR packs. Why in the hell would I buy the current one unless I'm a hardcore WTCR fan that drives the hell out of those cars? And why in the hell wouldn't I buy it if I was one. And if I'm a cheapskate, I can buy just a single car - you can still run a championship against an entire opposition with it. Yes, scams are usually profitable. That's the point. Now let's get back to the scenario where we don't consider scamming Raceroom and using a "great, but only one time" deal more than one time. A scenario where I still don't understand why one would want to buy everything.
Sorry, my calculations were wrong. I forgot to add the Cupra and Civic TC Cup cars so that´s an extra 1k vRP on top of the 6k originally estimated. That´s another example of why a buy all missing content button is needed as it is so easy to overlook stuff, especially similar items. The other related issue with this game is that there are so many ways to buy content that it becomes bewildering even for long time players. Right now there are 8 different ways to buy the Mercedes 92 DTM car and that´s not even starting with whether to use steam currency or vRP! Regarding buying all content, that´s precisely the business model these F2P games depend on for income - possible reasons in no particular order include; FOMO, to support the game, to enter premium competitions or leagues, to feel the satisfaction of collecting everything, because it works out cheaper or just on a whim. I agree 100% that it is both irrational and practically impossible to fully use all the content in the game, it would need years of game time. If buying the premium pack on separate accounts is a scam then is offering the same content for 700 euros over 5 years honourable? Is regurgitating identical cars across multiple classes or tracks with minor cosmetic modifications or the same tracks with 1 more layout any better? Having sold collectibles/memorabilia, it´s not for me to say what folk want to do with their money but the game owners could do a little more to make life easier and or cheaper for the players who want to continue pay for everything both in terms of simplifying the procedure and encouraging responsible spending.
Some people like to have a complete package. Especially when they already had a complete package previously.
First I hear that F2P games rely on people buying everything. Fear of missing out on what exactly? Just because there's something for sale and you want it, doesn't mean there's FOMO in effect. That's simply an offer. If you want to support the game, you don't come asking for a huge discount. You don't need every bit of content to do that. You just need some specific car or set of tracks that's required to enter. Collecting anything was never supposed to be cheap. Then take advantage if it does, but don't whine if it doesn't. I agree that Raceroom's store is overly confusing, but that was never the intended topic of the conversation. The OP came, said he bought a Premium Pack, taking advantage of a huge discount, then apparently got displeased with not having such a discount for more purchases. Then had the gall to call himself the most loyal and proven client - potentially not buying a single thing on top of that one great deal - and requested another discount. That's the most extreme display of customer entitlement I can think of. You can have variety without having everything. That's the misconception. It was never the complete package to begin with. It was always "everything we have so far". I already saw a displeased comment on reddit about Interlagos being released after the summer sale and thus not being included anymore in discounted Premium Pack that person bought a week ago. Dude, you misunderstood what you were buying. They'll add even more stuff in the future. It was always meant to be incomplete at some point.
Then you can pay for it like a normal human being, if it means so much for you, instead of begging for discounts you clearly don't need. I don't know where you're going with this, quite frankly, because it's clearly heading nowhere.
F2P games are always producing new content to get existing players to keep spending. Otherwise the game gets stale and people complain like they did when there was a development sabbatical in this game from September till they released Assen. FOMO is when you can´t race as you don´t own the right car or track or you have an older non BOPed that might be slower. Does that mean you NEED all the content? Of course not, indeed it is OCD but anyone who collected stickers or Pokemons when they were kids knows the drill. You can collect bottle tops and it is not an expensive hobby. It used to be that games were sold as complete on launch - all features, less bugs and all content. Nowadays they launch Alphas as final releases and keep back functions and content to release later and generate more income. If we look at vRP pricing we can see the big discounts of 30% or more kick in at a spend of 35 euros. That to me means those who spend less are not A tier customers. In the same way, the level of discount for spending more than 35 euros on vRP flatlines, so they clearly don´t expect or reward very big spenders either. I guess they are pleased if people spend 30-50 euros a year or indeed ever. More than that, happy days. I didn´t do a poll on spending amounts as it would likely turn into a dick measuring contest but we can deduce that on the forum most people are buying loose items or car packs and spending only the money they need not buying vRP in bulk, so they are not making the most cost effective buying decisions. Supporting the game is not giving money to charity. It´s a business trying to turn a profit and businesses who don´t listen to their customers and don´t have a monopoly tend to run into difficulty. The majority of an admitedly small sample group on this forum want a buy everything missing option and most of them would like a better price for it. The pro pack is not popular so why not update it more often and give people owning the premium the chance to buy it to get the main missing content? That´s within the target 35-50 euro price bracket and if you do it every 3 years or so then you cover most bases and keep everyone happy. Missing liveries and a few cars or tracks can be added manually for those that absolutely need everything and if they add them to the basket with the pro pack then they get a bulk discount if they buy in steam wallet or in vrP. I don´t see how the same user spending within the target range of the game developers and trying to get the most for their cash is being entitled or scammy - it´s not like they are sharing a Netflix account with other people. I also don´t see how talking down to fellow players by labelling them scammers, entitled, beggars, whiners or any number of other unfounded insults takes the discussion further.
Then why mention it if it's offtopic? You're generally making a lot of unnecessary remarks that are either offtopic, irrelevant or just wrong, watering down the main issue to stuff like collecting Pokemons. Then you meander about the state of game industry and whatnot. Yeah, maybe games used to be more complete on release. They used to be abandoned after a year or two as well, while Raceroom is supported and developed for almost a decade now. What does it matter to the topic at hand? Not much. Asking customers if they'd like the price to be lower is like asking the employees if they'd like their wage to be higher. That's not feedback, that's the point of conflicting interests of both parties - obviously one wants to pay less, the other wants to get paid more. I'm actually surprised the lead of discount option is so unconvincing, but either way that's not a feedback. That doesn't solve the issue. The issue is that some people don't think the content presents enough value to warrant a full-price purchase, but instead of refusing to buy it - like a normal person would - they expect the company to discount the content and deprive themselves of earnings they'd get from others - those who see such value - in order to adjust the pricing to their perception of value, because they got used to the luxury of owning the entire content, but not to actually paying the appropriate price for it. An actual solution to that problem would be finishing with current form of Premium Pack, because it is - very likely unintentionally - responsible for creating such a false perception that you're supposed to have the "complete" game. The guy on reddit I mentioned is a proof of that - he feels deprived of having the complete game, because he didn't get to enjoy having all the content for more than a week. That's a ridiculous misinterpretation of what Premium Pack stands for, but a common one, it seems. And it stems from the fact that having the "complete" game is elusive to those who bought the Premium Pack earlier, but easily achievable to those who didn't, as the pack is constantly available - and so, since any new player can enjoy such state, it should be considered the optimal state of your account. It should be replaced with a content-rich, but incomplete pack, so it is clear that while you will get a good value for your money, having everything is not what should be considered achievable or desirable, and any individual should buy and enjoy precisely the content they consider worthwhile. Well, that depends on how. But getting a new account to get an outstanding one-time-only deal again instead of investing on top of the old one is clearly against the idea of that deal. It may be not strictly legal-wise scammy, but it can be considered "breach of gentlemen's agreement" kind of scammy. I never called anybody a name in this thread, as far as I can tell. I only called out specific behaviours as what I consider them to be. A singnificant distinction. Just like some people said that some stuff is illogical, doesn't make sense or that people are being screwed - but nobody called devs and the studio stupid or scummy.
"Complete" as in "everything it has at this moment". Although some people do expect the premium pack to include future content, we aren't talking about these situations. I think our disagreement comes from how we perceive R3E content. You see at as luxury, expect not to have all of it and expect to pay a lot of money for it, except when there are great discounts. I see it as an affordable game with a monetization scheme that looks convoluted at first glance but is very reasonable and pragmatical if you look deeper into it (as I described in my comment above). The problem I see with treating R3E content as luxury is that there's suspiciously a lot of outstanding deals, too many to treat them as something rare or occasional or something that, you know, stands out.
I made the point a few posts back that 5 or so years ago the Premium Pack was a more constant upgrade from the Pro pack as there were about 100 cars and 30 -something tracks so you paid double the Pro pack price and got a bit more than double the content. Now its closer to 200 cars and more than 50 tracks for the same price, whereas the other packs haven´t increased in content so the offer keeps getting more skewed towards the Premium one and the Pro pack has a decoy effect as the worst value for money of the three and also the oldest content. In that regard, I agree about perhaps making the Premium pack a non all-inclusive one. The RUF, 2017 911 and Citróens are not in the pack anymore either so there is a precedent. As and example, the most recent set of WTCRs and one set of ADACs is probably enough so you could streamline about 40 cars off the bat. Then again, updating the Pro Pack would achieve the same but with lower revenues. There are still people that will want all available content so if you are commercial, give them that option in an easy way with one click and make it as financially attractive as possible for them to do so. Make it more obvious that the shop offers up to 18% discount for buying everything at once with steam waller or make it vRP only if needs be but then educate them how to buy the vRP or put a direct link to the vRP purchase option so people are not jumping through hoops like now or discovering later they had another option to save money. I am amazed those 2 packs are advertised as costing 50 and 100 euros as you will only be charged 42 or 82 max, whatever payment method used so I don´t hold out much hope for the buy everything option.
I see having all content as luxury. And I don't see why it shouldn't be considered as such. Everybody seems to agree that nobody would actually be able to extract value from all content, and some people just want it because it makes them feel better. That's basically the definition of luxury. I'd consider individual pieces to be affordable though, with prices for individual cars and tracks being often lower than in competing products. The issue is that Premium Pack devalues their perception to the point where they aren't considered worth buying anymore, even considering all the vRP discounts and annual Summer Sale, it seems. I think there may be a legal issue with advertising vRP purchase directly in the store that may've been the reason they went with a separate store and code redemption in the first place.
I guess it depends on how wealthy the person is and their perception of money. For someone paying in Argentinian pesos, with the current exchange rate, 1 car and livery would cost them the same as a full game like Rfactor2 or AMS2. Really since RRE is free to begin with and you have enough free cars and tracks for hours of game time, buying any extra content could be a luxury or a whim unless you are desperate to participate in ranked multiplayer or you feel you want to show gratitude to the game owners. Looking at how the two bulk discounts offered on steam wallet purchases and vrp arre structured, my deduction is RRE are looking for people to spend around 40 euros at one time/ever. Spending more than 50 doesn´t bring the same discounts whereas if they really expected people to spend that or more then they would increase the discounts more gradually. The actual content is probably devalued by RRE more than the player as really what they want is for people to have an incentive to reach their target spend threshold and the best way to do that is shower them with content they don´t need to persuade them they are getting better value. As it´s not tangible goods they can resell the same items millions of times, as opposed to collectibles which are limited editions or scarce or the grocery store where once the day´s fruit is gone it´s gone. Not wanting to speak for RRE, I´d say if every player went out and bought a Premium Pack every 3 years, they´d be pretty happy with that revenue stream - as would the companies that release standalone titles with less DLC like ACC or AMS2. So, assuming that to be realistic, we go back to the initial point of making it an easier and a more pleasant experience to buy content for those that do want to keep acquiring everything. There´s also the issue of regional pricing that went missing when the Steam DLC got removed, I wonder if that will ever be addressed or if players from countries with bad exchange rates are just not a big enough market to bother with.