POLL Why don't you drive multiplayer?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Tuborg, Jul 15, 2017.

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Why don't you drive multiplayer?

  1. Actually, multiplayer scares me and/or i don't think i have the skills.

    16 vote(s)
    11.3%
  2. I don't like the pace in multiplayer people drive like they were crazy.

    29 vote(s)
    20.4%
  3. I have to much tecnical problem in multiplayer. Bad ping, connection loss and so on.

    13 vote(s)
    9.2%
  4. People seem to drive the same tracks and car classes all the time and/or not enough drivers.

    53 vote(s)
    37.3%
  5. I will never drive multiplayer no matter what happening. I prefer to drive against AI on my own.

    16 vote(s)
    11.3%
  6. I will give it a try when we have a online ranking system.

    17 vote(s)
    12.0%
  7. I drive multiplayer and love it...and look forward to the ranking system.

    69 vote(s)
    48.6%
Multiple votes are allowed.
  1. ElNino

    ElNino Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly why i like r3e public races over say iracing or even club racing. Its hard for me to schedule time to play video games (to everyone else) and stick to it. I like being able to drop when the wife and kid run to the store or something.

    As for no pause, yeah that sucks, especially if its some bunghole selling siding at the door during an epic race....that really happened, wanted to kill the guy.
     
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  2. Tuborg

    Tuborg Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree.
     
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  3. Cheeseman

    Cheeseman Well-Known Member

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    Because I am not interested in racing with real humans. Eventually, you have to face some nonsense(rammers, bad track/car combinations, scheduele issues, internet issues and other issues) which you have to endure it.

    I rather race with the AI where I can leave a race if I want or try any combination.
     
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  4. Case

    Case Well-Known Member

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    It's still better to be racing humans and face the eventuality of rammers, rather than race the AI and be absolutely certain of it :p
     
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  5. Nir Tal

    Nir Tal Well-Known Member

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    The only case i will consider ditching an epic MP race is on "Police ! open-up !!" kind of door knocking...

    Im playing a lot in public servers and quite enjoying it. Yes there are rammers, but its pretty obv its mostly on free content servers and Silhouette/RR-Raceway servers in particular.
    On non-free content servers i rarely see rammers, only some new guys which dont respect the rules and do stupid things...but they are learning after a polite kick off-track. There was this guy who bump me hard on Red-bull track probably because he miss-judge the braking zone. We both went off-track to the grass and stopped, i turned the car to face him and wait... he got the message and left the server. I believe he will be more cautious next time :)
    Race start turn one mayhem ? yes i have seen it also in organized private races... and if u ask ppl to take it easy in race start on public servers - it usually helps, T1 go smooth.
    When ppl playing non-free content in public servers, after a while they understand they will meet the same drivers in MP tomorrow, so they get the sense that playing stupid will come back at them.

    Looking at the steam stats, only 25% of the players are in the MP servers...pretty disappointing. I would be happy to see more ppls there
     
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  6. Lixma

    Lixma Honorary QA

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    I have a suggestion - remove Raceroom Raceway from the free-to-play content.

    I suppose like many people my first experience of R3E online was RR Raceway and Portimao in rotation. Portimao was fine but RR Raceway was, and continues to be, a total disaster.

    First, it's hardly a beginner-friendly track. Practically every other corner is a blind crest and if someone messes up in front of you there's nothing you can do because you can't see anything. Now throw in 30 players, many brand new, of varying pings, of varying track knowledge, combined with some unpredictable netcode....it's carnage. Even if you're lucky enough to avoid the multiple wrecks you're still at the mercy of the repeated stutters because angry drivers are constantly quitting.

    I forget the exact numbers but from a 30 car race earlier this evening there were at least 15 DNFs. How many of those DNFs were first timers, eager to see what R3E has to offer? RR Raceway is a fun track but as a track for online beginners it's probably one of the worst choices.

    My solution would be to remove RR Raceway from the free to play content and replace it with, say, Brands Hatch. That's a circuit that's dead easy to learn, is by design relatively safe to race on, and has the added cache of being a real life circuit.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 18, 2017
  7. Dirk Bachmann

    Dirk Bachmann Well-Known Member

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    I cant race against KI - its simply boring for me.
    When i don´t have the time or i can´t find a server with interesting Settings for me - ill going for the Leaderboards.

    To the suggestion of Lixma:
    The Problem are the Drivers, not the Track - take a look to Iracing, with Rookie LvL you have to drive slower cars which are easier to handle.In addition with a penalty System you have to drive safe and to the end of the Race (Cause of more Laps = gain safety Rating).
    So if you race and have an start crash ( first corner as usual :rolleyes:) you bring your car to pits, repair , and going on with the race.
    A Safety Rating , and a tool in Dedicated Server to adjust the Entry level of Drivers who want to join Server would be great i think.
    For Rookies Formula Junior + NSU TT should be the free stuff in the first steps.(Renault Clio Cup would be great btw...)

    Just some thoughts....
     
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  8. ElNino

    ElNino Well-Known Member

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    Lol on the police....and totally agree on paid content servers...there are excellent public races to be had. Smaller races, but good, in our US primetime, or large races during Europe primetime.
     
  9. Mike R

    Mike R Active Member

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    Apr 27, 2017
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    Hi, I think you misunderstood me. The 100 laps to Suzuka is just one example, which could serve to enter Division 1, obviously would have to refine the objectives more depending on the division and the circuit, but I do not agree that there would be no online races.

    When I said 100 laps to Suzuka, I did not mean to take 100 laps in a row, I meant in total, but asking for a stint wide enough to ensure that each driver has the consistency to be able to make a race according to the category in which Is found. Obviously, at the beginning you would enter the lowest division of all and as they are achieving goals would rise.

    It seems fair to me that each player is in a division according to the effort he has made and I do not think it is something exaggerated, in fact I know many people who do many hours to a single level in casual games simply because of the challenge involved move on to the next ...

    For my RaceRoom is a simulator, and the users who generally look for this type of games we do precisely because of its complexity, many of us spend hundreds if not thousands of dollars on things like
    steering wheels, triple monitor, cockpit, etc. And they also demand things like well-implemented functions such as tire temperature and pressure, aerodynamics, laser scanned tracks and many other things. So I can not believe that nobody is going to play just because you have to meet some goals to be able to upgrade ...

    In fact I think that a well-implemented system of divisions and penalties would give RaceRoom the seriousness it deserves and would attract many simulation lovers simply because of the challenge of first division. I find it extremely unfair to have a ranking system that depends on an algorithm and have to be penalized for small minor mistakes or because another player gets me off the track.

    Finally, the system of divisions would also be visible just like an iRating, so I do not see the problem.

    Just my opinion, a greeting.

    Sorry for the English, translated with Google.
     
  10. CheerfullyInsane

    CheerfullyInsane Well-Known Member

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    We're not disagreeing on the goal, only on how to get there.

    First of all, the number of laps you've done on any particular lap, is not an especially good measure of how well you know it.
    If you know the track well from another sim, it'll only take a handful of laps in R3E to figure out where it differs, and then you're ready to race, despite your record only showing 8-10 laps.
    Nor does the number of laps tell you anything about the skill-level of the driver. I can do any number of laps on e.g. Spa, and I'll still be 2-3 seconds slower than the top guys. And if you put people of varying skill-levels onto the same server, that's usually where the incidents occur due to different braking-points, lines and levels of aggression.

    Second, you're making the all too common mistake of assuming that your view of the world is universal.
    You're looking for a highly professional league-system with serious players, who are using every set-up tool to give them that extra edge.
    And that's absolutely fine, I have no problem with that.
    But the number of players who are interested in (or have the time to do so) that level of dedication is fairly minute.
    The rest of us mere mortals are primarily interested in having a race with someone at roughly our level, and most of us do not have the time to practice 3-4 hours a day.
    Not to mention that most sim-racers I know haven't a clue as to how to set up a car, aside from adjusting the wings.
    The perfect example of this is the eWTCC. This is arguably the pinnacle of R3E MP racing at present, where you have to make a serious effort to even qualify for the races.
    And yet, if you look at the qualifying times at Monza, the 48 players in the two divisions cover a spread of almost five seconds, from 1:49.5 to 1:54.2.
    Which tells me that even for something as 'serious' as the eWTCC, you're still going to get people with wildly varying skills.
    Had the entry-requirements stated that you'd need to grind through X number of laps, all of them without a single off-track, I can guarantee you that the number of participants would've been a whole lot smaller.
    And the racing wouldn't necessarily have been better. We've had a fair number of Club races over at RD with fewer incidents than the eWTCC, despite them being 'jump-in-and-drive'.

    The problem with grinding is that it's dull, and it doesn't really prove anything other than that you're capable of performing the same act over and over again.
    I'd be far more interested in a penalty-system based on collisions, since that tells me more about the drivers capability to handle himself during over-takes, or being lapped. There's a difference between being able to hot-lap, and being able to race.
    And as for the penalty-system, i has to be algorithm-based, there's no way around it.
    Is it fair that you're penalized for someone else being a bonehead? No.
    But unless you can conjure up stewards for every race, how else are you going to police it?
     
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  11. Dirk Bachmann

    Dirk Bachmann Well-Known Member

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    I dont think it´s makeable.
    Youre involved in an incident - thats it.
    If you drive safe in majority you will raise your Safety Rating , dont care about fair/unfair or other players.
    It´s the same in regular road traffic - you have to handle mistakes also from the others and avoid chrashes - its completely irrelevant who cause the incident.(Ask some Bikers if they don´t do so....)
    Not fair, really - thats life....

    Totally agree @ CheerfullyInsane
     
  12. Julien Frinaire

    Julien Frinaire Member

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    @CheerfullyInsane : by curiosity, what type of algorithm do you think? An example please? :) In the following situation, Spa, starting grid, first braking zone at "La Source", I am punted out by a T1 hero and a big one occured. Am I a bad driver and should I be penalized for that?
     
  13. Karting06

    Karting06 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    I don't want you crash into someone. In don't want you have a Bad reputation because I'm top inconsistent.

    But maybe I should try...
     
  14. Tuborg

    Tuborg Well-Known Member

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    Yes you should try! Multiplayer is the best practice you can get :)
     
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  15. yoori

    yoori Well-Known Member

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    First of all, why do YOU think you should/would be penalized? AFAIK there's no details on reputation algorithms.

    Second, I am stewarding races for a league and I can tell you it's not easy. I couldn't think of an algorithm that would be fair every time.

    Splitting guilt isn't the worst solution and in many cases it's correctand it serves it's purpose. People that care about their reputation will be more careful and those that don't care eventually won't be able to race with you.
     
  16. Julien Frinaire

    Julien Frinaire Member

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    @yoori : first of all, no need to use caps, I can read english even without ;) Secondly, I don't consider any algorithm myself if you read carefully. I just want to understand what the penalty system based on collisions algorithm and considered by @CheerfullyInsane himself could do in this case study :)
     
  17. yoori

    yoori Well-Known Member

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    Yes, you can, better than me. Though, I wanted to put a strong accent on "you" and it's hard in writing.
    Sorry, I'm not trying to be agressive.

    You asked a specific question to your case, so I'd like to know what do you think should happen.
    For a specific case there's always an algorithm that will work, the problem is to find an algorithm that will work with all the cases.

    CheerfullyInsane stated the obvious, penalty system has to be algorithm-based and it won't be fair 100% of the time.
     
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  18. Julien Frinaire

    Julien Frinaire Member

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    I have already guessed you were not agressive that’s why I added a wink. No problem really :)

    Anyway, as you ask me my opinion on this specific situation, I would answer I can’t be held responsible for causing this kind of trouble at T1. In fact I am wondering too if such a penalty system could be fair cause I don’t know if it’s technically possible to differentiate every incident situation.

    If yes iR devs would have already implemented it, no ? Again, I really don’t know.

    If no, is it worth doing it ?
     
  19. Tuborg

    Tuborg Well-Known Member

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    Feels a bit unfair actually. Sure, I try to drive against the AI sometimes and it can be really fun for a lap or two. But then, that feeling comes sneaking up on me and I hear that voice:

    -Hey dude! They are not real, you are surrounded by non thinking drivers without feelings or senses. You are the only real driver.. They are just digits...

    ... and the illusion fades!

    Maybe i should see a doctor and talk about that voice...
     
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  20. Case

    Case Well-Known Member

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    I understand why you find it unfair, but it is in fact the exact opposite of unfair - it is as fair as you can get. You did a mistake, you get penalized for it. Doesn't matter how big or small the mistake was. After all, even small mistakes can have serious consequences in a race. Same if you're involved in an accident - doesn't matter who caused it (which can sometimes be extremely difficult to judge), everybody involved gets a penalty. No exceptions, no judging - the exact same rules for everyone. Like I said - as fair as it gets. Infuriating at times - yes, most certainly. But very fair.
     
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