Porsche sounds final?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Cully.ie™, Apr 24, 2018.

  1. iHeartPorsche

    iHeartPorsche Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2018
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0
    Do you have other developers assist you with the sound design or is it all you behind the scenes? I've been looking into getting into sound design/development in racing sims for a while, so I'm wondering what it takes and maybe what some requirements are.
     
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2018
  2. Heath

    Heath Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2016
    Ratings:
    +136 / 0 / -0
    911 GT3R Brembo 2-piece discs are made up of a proprietary advanced cast-iron alloy which offers an exceptional coefficient of friction and resistance to thermal shock and fatigue.
     
  3. sbtm

    sbtm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2016
    Ratings:
    +591 / 0 / -0
    Nah. The 911 has aluminium housings but the brake disc itself is steel. I think steel brakes are part of the FIA rulesbook for GT3 class. Most of the time the road versions seem have more "potent" brakes than the GT3 counterpart (but smaller discs than the GT3 I think)

    From the Porsche 911 gt3r site:

    "Front axle:
    - Six-piston aluminium monobloc racing brake calliper
    - Ventilated and grooved steel brake disc, D = 380 mm, aluminium disc bell

    Rear axle:
    - Four-piston aluminium monobloc racing brake calliper
    - Ventilated and grooved steel brake disc, D = 372 mm, aluminium disc bell"
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. fischhaltefolie

    fischhaltefolie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2015
    Ratings:
    +1,037 / 0 / -0
    Just the calipers are made of aluminum. Disks are made of steel.;)
    upload_2018-4-26_17-52-22.png
    Edit:
    Sorry, too late. Changeover!
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. Anthony Monteil

    Anthony Monteil KW Studios Developer

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    Ratings:
    +1,199 / 0 / -0
    I'm alone indeed + one programmer (Robert Holm) assists me with the coding tasks, and he's very good at that :)

    About the sound design, this job changed a lot since the rFactor-GTR years. In the meantime, most of the studios switched to third-party softwares for the audio edition and integration, Fmod being the most popular nowadays due to its native integration in a few game engines.
    These softwares changed the job because they expand the possibilities in the car sounds edition significantly, and they speed up the integration process. They allow for much more realistic car sounds when they're used properly, but they also have their cons unfortunately.
    R3E is still using some old technology for now, inherited from the previous SimBin titles but heavily tweaked and improved.
    GTR3 will be our first title using Fmod.

    On the requirements:
    First, I'd say you need a solid sound engineer education and experience (in my case, I've been a sound engineer for concerts and studios for 15 years before I started to work for SimBin in 2007).
    Good and musical ears help a lot for engine sounds in my opinion (you need to be able to tune the engine rev pitch by ear in exemple, even if the audio editors have some specific tools to help you).

    Secondly, I'd recommend a good knowledge of cars from all eras, and especially the engine parts, types, technologies etc, and obviously in the racing games genre, a deep knowledge of old and modern motorsport in general (cars, manufacturers, championships, teams, drivers etc).
    The goal is to label each car engine/sound instantly, and identify them by ear when needed.
    Reading books, looking for documentation, meeting and talking with motorsport people, watching videos help a lot to create your own encyclopedia.

    From there, training yourself at home with moddable games is probably a good start, then try to make a name on the modding scene, or join some modding teams.
    This step is optional but highly recommended in my opinion because it allows you to progress at your own pace until you reach the required level to join a professional team.
    Then, hopefully, someone in a studio notice your work or you can always send CV and portfolios around.

    And last but important, you need a real passion for this job and race cars (this started at 7 years old for me).
    I don't think you can improvise such a professional carreer but it can build up from some focused steps/choices in your life.
    Also and this is only my personal view here, you won't give much emotion to the players if you don't feel this emotion while creating the sounds.
    Car sounds designers are not many in the game development world, but I'm pretty sure they're all 200% dedicated to their job as in the end, races and car sounds become and ARE your life ;)
     
    • Love it! x 8
    • Like x 4
    • Winner x 4
    • Informative x 2
    • Agree x 1
    • Wonderful x 1
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2018
  6. tunix0

    tunix0 New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Hi Anthony!

    In ADAC GT Masters there is a new team called "IronForce Racing". The team drives a PORSCHE 911 GT3 R (991) and their goal is to make motorsport great again ("Make Motorschpocht great again! Real passion for cars, fun in sports competition and especially a spectacle for the fans!"). They bring the fans closer to motor sports on Youtube and provide insights into the technology and behind the scenes.

    Maybe you can ask there, if you can record the sound again. Informations can be found at "iron-force.de" (Sorry, first post, i'm not allowed yet to set a link).

    The team owners are both motorsport lovers and Youtuber with a big fan base.

    And Anthony, thank you for your insight into the work of a sound designer. Very interesting!
     
  7. iHeartPorsche

    iHeartPorsche Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2018
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0
    Informative! As for qualification, I think all I need is experience. I know my my fair share of cars from all categories and previous years, I'm pretty confident in my ability to determine which car is which based on their distinct sound and properties. For experience like you mentioned, I may have to start doing modding as soon as I can. I know a lot more about modern GT, LMP, and Indie than anything else but I can learn.

    I live off of watching videos of fly bys and onboards and comparing them to different games and thinking to myself how I personally, would improve them. I remember everytime I played this one first person shooter game called "Rainbow Six Siege" with my friends, when we went against eachother in custom matches, they would randomly shoot and by the sound (note, speed at which the gun shot) I would be able to identify specifically what character they were using and what specific weapon he had with him.

    I've been wanting to be apart of th le dev scene for quite some time now, since I played the first "Project CARS" game in 2015. There were so many things about the sound that I wanted to change but couldn't obviously.
     
  8. iHeartPorsche

    iHeartPorsche Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2018
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0
    Hello again Mr. Monteil, I've been studying RaceRoom's 911 R sound for a few days now have found another way to make the overall sound more true to the real one. It seems in Raceroom, the higher the RPM, the quieter the actual engine note gets:
    Compared to the real one:

    You can hear that the actual engine note stays consistently prominate throughout the cycle of each gear in the real one. I hope you know what I'm talking about, this isn't something that im sure a lot of people caught on to.
    Thanks!

    -Brandon
     
  9. Anthony Monteil

    Anthony Monteil KW Studios Developer

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    Ratings:
    +1,199 / 0 / -0
    There are a few others issues with this car sound that are not easily fixable.
    The problem with the volume at high rpm is directly linked to the samples nature.
    There is way too much transmission whine in the very high rpm sample to be able to crank its volume up.
    The sound would become really unpleasant to hear.
    I already tried to fix/improve the current sound, I even created a new version with a Youtube source, but after some tests, we came to an agreement that it was still not satisfying, so we didn't release it.
    I'm not sure yet about what will happen with this sound but most likely we won't replace it as long as I couldn't make some new satisfying recordings.
    By "satisfying", I mean a recording where the transmission whine is reasonably balanced with the engine sound ;)
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Useful Useful x 1
  10. Cully.ie™

    Cully.ie™ Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Ratings:
    +34 / 0 / -0
    Thanks again Anthony for your input.
    Something i find amazing in your sounds is the dynamic nature of it all, the backfires for example.
    Sometimes i can hear a backfire while upshifting from the right side or the car wherever the exhaust is on the right side then on the next upshift it could be the left side,then on a downshift it could be left or right or both, this just adds to the immersion so so much and its so satisfying and makes the driving all the more exciting and makes everything all the more believeable that other sims sound poor by comparison.
    No other sim has this dynamic sounds going on i believe?
    Next to R3E in the sound department i would always have AMS but even it doesnt have these dynamic sounds.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. iHeartPorsche

    iHeartPorsche Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2018
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0
    I don't believe any other games have "dynamic" sound, but I would definitely place iRacing second to RaceRoom in sound design.
     
  12. iHeartPorsche

    iHeartPorsche Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2018
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0
    @Anthoni Monteil That is dissapointing however very acceptable considering how good the sound already is. I heard something you said about Raceroom using "old tech".. Would updating to newer tech solve that problem do you think? If so, would the "newer tech" come in with the update of UE4?
     
  13. sbtm

    sbtm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 29, 2016
    Ratings:
    +591 / 0 / -0
    Yes most likely. With UE4 they can use fmod fully like they will do with gtr3 (ue4 + fmod). Afaik they now only can use fmod as a plugin for their custom sound engine. Anthony said it some time ago in another thread.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. Anthony Monteil

    Anthony Monteil KW Studios Developer

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    Ratings:
    +1,199 / 0 / -0
    You should try Dirt Rally if you didn't already.
    Car sounds are very good there.
    But totally different technology, much more people dedicated to audio and different budget too :p
     
    • Useful Useful x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. Anthony Monteil

    Anthony Monteil KW Studios Developer

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    Ratings:
    +1,199 / 0 / -0
    If it's the two Porsche sounds you're talking about, Fmod wouldn't help much I'm afraid.
    Fmod is very powerful but it requires even better quality sources than R3E.
    This is one of Fmod cons.
    Unlike R3E, lofi sources will sound bad, Fmod's engine output is extremely clear and "cold", enhancing all the audio material defaults (if it has some).
    Therefore, most of the R3E engine sounds are probably not transferable in Fmod but wait and see. ;)
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
    Last edited: May 2, 2018
  16. iHeartPorsche

    iHeartPorsche Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2018
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0
    To me, RaceRoom is pretty much my track version of Dirt Rally. You guys have a lower budget then the rest of your competition and STILL manage to have the most realistic sound effects in the racing genre. The game right now sounds more than exceptional, but I alwayse push it and ask consistently about sounds because I'm still waiting for THAT ONE sim/game that 100% nails the sounds. Down to every back fire, transmission whine, paddle shift compressor, tyre squeal, cabin shake, loose piece of tarmac that hits the underbelly, etc.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    Last edited: May 2, 2018
  17. Anthony Monteil

    Anthony Monteil KW Studios Developer

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    Ratings:
    +1,199 / 0 / -0
    Like for any simulation aspect (physics, graphics etc), it's always very hard to be 100% realistic, especially as everyone has its own idea of the "reality".
    That said, it's still my aim to be as close as possible to the real thing ;)
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Love it! Love it! x 1
    Last edited: May 2, 2018
  18. iHeartPorsche

    iHeartPorsche Member

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2018
    Ratings:
    +24 / 0 / -0
    I can agree, I was just reading an article from TTA informing me further on your sound development process from about 5 years ago haha still very good stuff! I trust that you will push for further realism every opportunity you get. And say "hello" to Mr. Holm for me as well ;)
     
    • Love it! Love it! x 1
  19. Andi Goodwin

    Andi Goodwin Moderator Beta tester

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2015
    Ratings:
    +790 / 0 / -0
    a general question for anthony , do you mute the cockpit sounds a bit for realism sakes ; i am sat there with earplugs and a helmet on ;)

    Andi
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. Anthony Monteil

    Anthony Monteil KW Studios Developer

    Joined:
    Jan 14, 2015
    Ratings:
    +1,199 / 0 / -0
    Hey Andi, sorry for the late answer :oops:.
    Usually, I sample the onboard recordings as they are, with some frequency correction when needed. Sometimes, I add some reverb ambience to enlarge the stereo and the engine resonance but that's it. The reason is that most of the players seem to prefer it that way more than a muffled onboard sound.
    Adding an onboard filter slider in the audio options came back several times into the discussions, but it's not a priority for now.
    Maybe in a future title ;)...
     
    • Informative Informative x 1