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Possibility to make Raceroom more popular!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Zackmchack, Apr 25, 2021.

  1. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    Not sure about that. It shows prices in dollars/euro, it shows total price in dollars/euro and when you click "Checkout" it says "Pay in USD"/"Pay in EURO". None of these steps suggest that you should stop and do something on the side to complete your purchase.

    Yeah, that's funny. That Citroën's everywhere.
     
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  2. Vale

    Vale Well-Known Member

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    What I meant is that you only get to see you can pay with steam wallet at the very final transaction screen or if you click on help. Seeing as you have to go through steam to pay if you don´t have VRP they might as well as well advertise that they accept steam currency - think of all the minors who get steam gift vouchers.

    Also, there is no visible link to the raceroom shop from the steam game page either, which is weird considering steam are taking a commission.

    I have no beef with the actual game content store (not the VRP one) as this game has too much content to occupy limited Steam slots. Regarding updating those, I´d suggest the new Starter Pack and the rest would be Steam exclusive packs such as an updated GTR3 car and track pack, a DTM1992 and 2020 one, a WTCR20/21 one and a single seater car pack. Those would all fit in the 10-30 euro price range and be competitive with other racing sim price points.

    In summary, if you go through Steam´s web then you will have a very hard time buying or seeing up-to-date content. This is a barrier to entry for the casual player and the type of one that the youtubers have as viewers.
     
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    Last edited: May 29, 2021
  3. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    Is it so important to know all the payment options in advance, before clicking "Buy"? I mean I barely ever see anything like that while I'm shopping online, it's not a Raceroom-specific issue.

    But since Steam is the only option to pay with money without vRP involved, I agree it's reasonable to have Steam mentioned on the very early stages of purchase. Although I don't think the current state can be called "a problem".

    Anyway, I agree that integration with Steam can see some improvements.
     
  4. Vale

    Vale Well-Known Member

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    Havig old content in the advertising is a problem in the sense that some countries may consider this misleading advertising. The other stuff is just feedback from what I have seen people mentioning on Jardier and other streams.
     
  5. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    One thing I don't quite get is why all this youtubers-related action started now and not when the FFB update rolls out in June. Personally I'm fine with FFB, but I know there's a lot of people who were put off by it. Which means there are/will be people who watch one of these videos, download the game and drop it because of the current FFB, while they might've stuck if it was a new one. These are basically lost customers.
     
  6. Vale

    Vale Well-Known Member

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    Good point. There is also the summer sale and important new content like ADAC 20, which could have tied in to lure more people.

    I hope they do a free weekend after the ACC one as that is the best way to showcase the game to new players.

    Curiously I haven´t seen many negative critics about the graphics engine - we get more of that on here from actual players than spectators.
     
  7. VFX Pro

    VFX Pro Member

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    If you want the best sounds of any other sims, want to have the best track selection with elevations changes, want the best SETUP UI/UX out there, want to feel tyre scrubbing when turning, like cinematic music while track loading, and love using DRS with DTMs, then RRE is for you.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
  8. PPTR

    PPTR Member

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    As a older casual racer that does not currently own the game but has been playing sim games for a few decades I joined the forum because of this topic.
    First off because of watching some pretty popular You tube sim racers I have become somewhat interested in this game. I will say I have not yet downloaded even the free content as I am waiting for the new FFB to be implemented and not need to do an update and set up my sim wheel but once.

    One of the biggest first attractions to the game is its track list and being from the U.S.A the American track pack is a big draw.
    Now the negative to that is the tracks in this game from my understanding are not laser scanned and due to this the realism as compared to the actual circuit being represented will be missing critical detail and track surface curbing variances will not be correctly relayed to the player as it would from other titles that do have actual laser scanned tracks in their game.

    As a player that at times prefers to play offline when I tire of the inconsistencies and carnage of many online races the quality and the ability to have somewhat of a challenge the AI performance is a big factor.
    My understanding the AI is pretty good in this title which is a plus.

    The DLC content and its availability and how it is offered is not the best overall. As a user that prefers Steam overall needing to go to a different manufactures studio site to actually get the best price is not a deal breaker for me but could be for some users and regardless is an inconvenience that could easily be avoided.

    Also as much of this content is also dated by a number of years I do have certain reservations about the final price to buy the full content but usually when I buy a game regardless of the game I prefer to have all the content the game has available.
    So again is this title worth more than the cost of most newer releases is another question I have to ask myself.

    And then what really was the purpose of me posting this is several prior post that addressed the fact or ask the question is what is this game trying to be or do to market itself or grow its player base. Every game has to have what they do that separates it from the others.
    iRacing is its online and oval, ACC is its gt3/gt4 focus and physics, GTS is its console platform and online daily races and championship seasons, but every game has its specialty.

    The one specialty I never see is someone covering vintage 1966-70 LeMans series with the 917 Porsche, p330 Ferarri, Chaparral's including both online and offline championship seasons.
    Also the same era say 1968-1972 North American Trans Am series with the Camaro and Mustang, Javelin and Challengers. Basically it does not have to be exact but you have the tracks to be able to really do a good representation.
    These are drivers cars and series, no electronics, no traction control or ABS brakes, cars that did not really have adequate brakes, you get the idea.

    There are so many historic series, era's and classes that could be the draw for this title. Make the reason to buy this game is its best available vintage class racing. Actually even the dated graphics and older content would look much more at home if this was the games focus.
    I will download the game and give it a spin after the FFB drops, whether I keep it and buy additional content remains to be seen.

    Sorry for such a long first post but just the opinion of a gamer that is considering the title and some of the thought process that enters into whether I pull the trigger and to what level.
     
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  9. VFX Pro

    VFX Pro Member

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    I own all content of every sim, and I must admit, this is my favorite sim for countless reasons. Worth every penny... You will blown away by the sounds and the feeling of the car weight...
     
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  10. PPTR

    PPTR Member

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    Actually my current go to is ACC and the physics along with feeling the weight of the cars is one of my big likes in that game.
    I also like the fact even on cold tires the grip level is down but is not like so many sims that with cold tires you feel like you are driving on an ice rink.
    Usually in ACC if I have an incident or go off track or spin I know what I did wrong, many games it seems that at times the rear will just snap around for no apparent reason even though you basically did the same thing in that sector for the previous 10 laps and it was fine.
    I do not like the out of the blue behavior that leaves you wondering what the heck caused that!
    If this game is along the lines of ACC in physics and tire model.grip behavior it will check a major positive plus box right there.
     
  11. majuh

    majuh Well-Known Member

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    You don't need laserscan data to be able to create accurate tracks.
     
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  12. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    Just wanted to chime in on these parts:
    I don't think it's easy. Steam takes 30% of your payment, the publisher of the game only get 70%. By offering you to buy the store currency on their own website the publisher makes it more profitable both for themselves and the users. I'm not sure how to get rid of that without either of the side getting worse deals.

    It costs 65 Euro (Premium pack for 10k vRP; 10k vRP pack for 65 Euro). It's a regular price for a game, and considering the amount of content you get I think it's a good price. (For comparison, AMS2 asks double that price for their base game+season pass in USD.)

    During sales, the price drops to 50 Euro.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2021
  13. PPTR

    PPTR Member

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    Not as far as the layout or most visual cues but I know on one particular track I have a lot of real life laps on there is one small bump on a particular line coming out of the last corner onto the straight stretch that will upset the car, on a properly Laser scanned track that exact bump would be there.
    While as it is really small detail, on an artist and photo rendering of the track that bump would not likely be a part of the surface which would make that a missing feature and not an actual accurate rendering of that sector or need to be accounted for while racing that track which could change the way that sector would be approached in the game versus real life.

    In the following linked video if you go to about the 10:00 mark and watch the side by side video of Mt Panorama the left video is Laser scanned while the right side video is not. Notice that in the left video there is much more movement in the car as it reacts to ripples and slight variances in the track surface while the video on the right is not laser scanned and the track surface overall seems more perfect and much smoother and the car shows no where near the movement.

    Sure you can have fun in a game racing both track creations but the track on the left will represent the real life track surface along with its imperfections much more accurately which is clearly seen by the differences in smoothness of the car traveling over the same parts of the tracks.
    This is the detail that a non laser scanned track lacks. The little imperfections and ripples not really noticed by eye but felt in a racing vehicle at speed on the edge.
     
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  14. Arthur Spooner

    Arthur Spooner Well-Known Member

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    RaceRoom uses real life telemetry data to recreate bumps. So if you can feel it in real life, it should be there in RaceRoom too.

    And please keep in mind that laser scans, even if they are very accurate at the time they are taken, get outdated quite quickly. Racetracks are resurfaced or repaired quite frequently and nothing that is done to the track after the scan will be in the laser scan data.

    My humble opinion on this matter is, that laser scans are a nice but highly overrated technical gimmick. The fine details they are supposed to capture get outdated quickly by cars racing over them and by any means of repair done to the track. You get an accurate, but timewise very limited snapshot of an ever evolving entity. Not worth the fuss.
     
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  15. yoori

    yoori Well-Known Member

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    IMO, it's not that simple. Ok laser scan gives you detailed information to start with, but...
    - Road surface is (probably) not rendered with "raw" laser scan, I has to be smoothed/ brought to lower poly count to be effectively displayed. You, won't notice anyway for in-car view.
    - then there's the ffb. First it has to be good, and then I would assume the laser scan also has to be prossesed to be able to effectively apply ffb effects, where the should be.

    Without a laser scan you are able to create an accurate track, you just need to get the information in a different way.

    R3E for example has 3d curbs, and I can always feel in the steering when I hit the sausage curb or a rumble strip. Something I can't feel in iRacing.

    If you want to wait for the new FFB then do so. But please don't comment on the games realism or point to where it should go untill you give it a solid try.

    The direction R3E is taking may soon make it a real cometition to iRacing. It has great net code allowing for very close and exciting multiplayer races. It already has rating and reputation systems in place. We are waiting for matchmaking and official championships / series. Which hopefully will come this year.
     
  16. Andi Goodwin

    Andi Goodwin Moderator Beta tester

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    this really relies on how you sety your cockpit movement from one sim to another

    Andi
     
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  17. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    It's not like the surface completely changes after a short period of time or after a repair. I know there are bumps that exist/existed on tracks for years. So even if a laser scanned track is a limited-time snapshot, it's still a snapshot of an actual state of an actual track, and it's better than having a representation that never actually existed.

    Of course it's then a matter of production quality, you can have a laser scan data but still make a track poorly, or you can use other means of capturing the track and make a great one, but disregarding laser scans simply on the matter of "the details get outdated quickly" is incorrect.

    I don't know if it's worth the fuss because I don't have any numbers on how long it takes, how expensive it is, etc. I would read more about that, if anyone has a good source.
     
  18. Vale

    Vale Well-Known Member

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    Laser scans make sense on short track ovals but I think are not worth it for the longer tracks. I´d rather have the budget spent on royalties and design. In some sims the tracks are laser scanned but the cars are OP so the laptimes are off the real ones.
     
  19. PPTR

    PPTR Member

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    Actually in my original post I clearly stated I did not yet own the game and my viewpoints were from the perspective of a gamer that does play sim games and has an interest in the game.

    The realism in a tracks reproduction taken from a laser scan and from " getting the information in another way" as you had stated in your post I would personally put more faith that the Laser scanned track would be a more accurate representation of its real life counterpart 10 out of 10 times.

    At no time have I commented on the realism of the physics or FFB as I do not own the game.

    My comments concerning the games direction were simply made from looking at the available popular sim games and where their focus was and then looking at the market and seeing what was not being represented that from a personal perspective I would like to see more of a presence.
    I do use You tube videos to get a somewhat realistic picture of what a game looks like and the quality of its graphics, car model reproductions and general driving traits or the opinion of the you tuber that is playing or reviewing the game.

    Again from these videos I made the determination as compared to some other more recent titles that many of the Graphics, art work and effects in this game do look dated as compared to material produced at a much later time frame.
    This of course is normal considering the time frame some of this was rendered and not knocking the game but from a potential purchasers viewpoint is a consideration as to not only how the game will appear graphically but also where do you place the value or purchase price of a game with a lot of dated content as compared to a game with more recent higher quality renderings?

    Next many people that play sim games do not have that high of an opinion where iRacing is concerned. I do have a current iRacing Subscription which at this time I do not plan to renew.
    I do not really care for the physics on iRacing compared to other titles and I do not like their business model where you really rent the content rather than own it as unless you keep a current subscription active you cannot even access the content you paid for offline.
    And again for graphics and features iRacing is another title that to an extent could use some modernizing. The biggest plus for iRacing is the tracks they have available that really are not available anywhere else although the pricing for that content is way too high. And of course their online organization and races.

    The title to this thread was how to make Raceroom more popular.
    All I did was offer one persons viewpoint or opinion on that subject that does not yet own the game but is seriously considering it purchase.
    These were thoughts and things that I thought about as an outsider again why do I or should I spend the dollars and complete this purchase or should I pass on the game

    I tried to give an honest assessment of what I found as positive points and what I saw as negative or not as desirable as I go through the buy or not buy decision.
    Maybe I misunderstood the topic and never should have commented.
    Was the topic a legitimate question of wanting ideas or was I mistaken? The best way to make it more popular and grow the fan or player base is to look at what or maybe how a prospective customer views the game from all angles not just one.

    But in my honest opinion on an official game forum which the topic asking such a question being told not to comment on the realism or games direction of offering an opinion of where it should possibly go makes me wonder about the community that frequents this game.

    None of my comments were made in a disrespectful manner and were only my own observations and opinions as I try to gain more insight to what the game is really about and what content and the quality of that content.
    If a person that states that some of the content which was created say back in 2014 and compared to more modern content with more detail and function is worth less because of it being dated upsets or offends you then I am sorry.

    But the reality is there is a difference in value across the gaming industry in newer games with cutting edge graphics and effects than older games that may have been top shelf at the time they were created but lack in the graphics department by today's standards.

    But ending my intent was to actually give a perspective from a sim racing game fan of what looked good but at the same time raised what may be considered questionable issues as well that a prospective customer may have.

    But going on the defensive because there were concerns raised is not in my opinion the correct way to going about growing the player base and making the game more popular.
     
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  20. yoori

    yoori Well-Known Member

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    Your views of the game as a potential user are valuable in this context.
    I don't feel offended and i'm not trying to attack you either. I feel like you have a wrong impression of what the game is and should try it before you make suggestions.

    The content is not at all old and constanly updated / added. All the major series in R3E are on 2020 specs.

    R3E devs have very good access to racing teams and all the data needed to create high quality modern content. Dropping this to create historical content that is a niche in a niche may not be a smart businness decision. That said historical content is also created and very good.

    Apart from Raceroom steam version. The owners of the brand also provide event software and simulators, that was a big part of the business and perhaps stood in the way of raceroom growing as a racing platform.

    My comaprisson to iRacing is there because R3E is closest to iR as it provides a racing service that is constanly developed and new content is added. It's just cheaper content, without subscription and with better physics and netcode.

    I hope that you will like R3E and have good time here. And I hope that R3E will find a way to change the way the game is perceived.