Raceroom New FFB vs Old FFB

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Turtle Power, Jun 26, 2021.

?

Your personal preference regarding the new vs old FFB

Poll closed Jul 6, 2021.
  1. I like the new FFB

    92 vote(s)
    71.9%
  2. I prefer the Old FFB

    14 vote(s)
    10.9%
  3. Neutral

    9 vote(s)
    7.0%
  4. Not sure what I like more

    13 vote(s)
    10.2%
  1. Piston Broke

    Piston Broke Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0
    This is the ONLY sim that you don't feel collision ffb through your wheel, not everyone has a 10000 pound motion rig or whatever, i'd bet the majority, especially anyone new trying the game, only has a wheel/ pedal setup. So is this change a good thing, i'd say no, it's definitely not, I love the feel of the new FFB but unless you re-instate some sort of collision FFB, canned or not (on a slider), i fear you've made a monumental error. What would you think if you tried RR3 with a basic setup for the first time now? you'de think it was missing too much feedback, bin it, and go play AC, ACC, RF AMS2 or some other sim instead.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Ratings:
    +748 / 0 / -0
    The vast majority of users have low/mid end wheel setup. Not motion rigs and whatever else you mention. The overall feedback on the new ffb is positive from both new and old players.
     
  3. Piston Broke

    Piston Broke Member

    Joined:
    Nov 9, 2015
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0
    Well, I guess it's saved me spending any more money on the game, my wife will no doubt thank the devs.
     
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  4. MattStone

    MattStone Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2016
    Ratings:
    +171 / 0 / -0
    While that’s true as I gave it a big thumbs up too BUT not having a collision effect really is poor form and extremely disappointing.

    I agree it’s not realistic to feel a minor collision in the wheel BUT for the majority of players the wheel is the only way to give a tactile indication that you are rubbing against another car!

    A collision effect is essential for door to door racing and IS a basic 101 expectation for any racing game. This is the only game that I know of that doesn’t have it.

    I think if you did a pole of R3E players the large majority would want a collision effect; even if it’s a canned effect
     
    • Like Like x 3
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  5. RampageRacing

    RampageRacing Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2018
    Ratings:
    +69 / 0 / -0
    The new FFB has many positive aspects about it. However, as one of those customers with an entry level wheel it also has some serious negative aspects. At default setting on a Logitech G series wheel, the steering feels much like ACC and that is not a complement. It feels overly assisted, lifeless and numb. The saving grace in R3E is the sliders and, even more importantly, the individual FFB multiplier for each car. At least with those, you can get some weight in the steering and a bit of road/bump feel.

    I understand that the canned effects were removed because they annoyed some of those with high end DD wheelbases and eSport racers. I know some even complained of hurting their wrist and hands due to collision effects. However, removing curbs and collisions completely from entry level wheels makes the sim more like a game than a simulation of driving a real car on track. This strikes me as counterproductive when the Devs are trying to make all the other sensations more realistic and based on physics. Well, when you hit a curb hard or a guardrail or another car physics dictates that you are going to feel it through the steering wheel. Trust me when I say that I know this from the experience of having broken some bones in my hand and fingers during a collision in a real race many years ago when I forgot to let go of the wheel on impact. No one is asking for anything like that in R3E. But to feel nothing just feels broken.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 5, 2021
  6. Turtle Power

    Turtle Power Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2018
    Ratings:
    +296 / 0 / -0
    I agree with your comment but since we are not driving a real car we need some optional fake/ canned effects that should come through the steering wheel in order to compensate for the loss of other physical forces and add to immersion. I am saying optional so we can turn it on and off. Not many people have buttkickers or motion and they are missing a lot.
    The concept of moving towards a real car physical forces/ real data is great and I support that. BUT, once again, some extra canned effect are gold for immersion and overall feel.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
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    Last edited: Jul 5, 2021
  7. Dady Cairo

    Dady Cairo Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2017
    Ratings:
    +26 / 0 / -0
    I hope the DEVS will listen!
    Or please do a poll about that collison effects!
    i bought every thing from Sector 3 even if i don't drive it because of supporting a great Sim.
    After i gave up on RF2 now this beloved Sim is going 2 steps forward - one step back too.
    Don't let it happen.
    Then all we got to support is AMS2.
    Thanx
    DC
     
  8. Turtle Power

    Turtle Power Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2018
    Ratings:
    +296 / 0 / -0
    It's not a step back. In fact it is a great move with the new FFB. However, all canned effects should be kept as optional. We loved it so much. That's all.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  9. nickh158

    nickh158 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2015
    Ratings:
    +64 / 0 / -0
    I totally agree. I`ve grown to like the new way that tyre feedback feels, but the lack of other effects - or poor implementation of them - is ridiculous. For example, cockpit view has a visual effect replicating the bumps on the road, but the FFB only has, at best, a vague controller-like rumble. The lack of a collision effect is even worse and is definitely a step back for immersion.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. Dady Cairo

    Dady Cairo Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2017
    Ratings:
    +26 / 0 / -0
    That should be possible as they did it with the fake shifting effect...
    I do like the new FFB,but these effects are essential.The first Sim with no collision effects on the market is no good advertising.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  11. NicoCL68

    NicoCL68 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 23, 2020
    Ratings:
    +16 / 0 / -0
    So, what is the problem with canned effects ? There were really good in former FFB system. Is OK to have more realistic FFB bases but I don't see the problem to add some effects, even if artificial, because this is a "game" or a "sim" as you want, and the only way to feel what happens in the car and the track are your wheel. So why to renounce to something positive in a fundamentalist approach ?
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  12. ⅀ℕiↅϻΔ

    ⅀ℕiↅϻΔ Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2021
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0
    WE just left R3E after such a long time playing since 2013.
    We wanted to have fun again racing each other and not be frustated from the ON/OFF switch throttlemap (yeah its superdupermegareaslitic NOT) or the weird FFB now.
    After the FFB update NOTHING works like before does not matter WHAT controller you are at.
    A friend uses Logitech Controller his cars all drive to the right now only way to fix is add a deadzone toi steering.
    Another one at Logitech G27 his wheels runs mad you can hear it in Teamspeak when it freaks out super load.
    Me @ T500RS had No Curb or any other road feeling with the recomendet settings only after hours testing all up it works now.
    But it still feels like i have INPUTLAG!! In a shooter you would call this Prefire here it is Pre Steering :D
    My Settings at the moment maybe it will help someone
    T500RS with Sparco 383Mod
    Settings
    to me works on All Cars its not perfect but brings back more V.load speed -roadfeeling and Curbs and stuff.
    Also every car feels different then like power steering or NO power steering
    Like Compare Group 4 Porsche vs. Porsche Classic vs GT³ vs1992DTM Vauxhaul (very heavy)
    FFB linearity 60-75% S3 recommendet 85% but to high gives no information
    FFB minimal Force 5% S3 recommendet 0-2% but to weak and no information also 6% is allready to much
    Raise minimal Force is
    necessary to get roadfeeling back @ higher speeds only works in combination with bump amplification
    standfriction 90% S3 recommendet 50% but it is to lose as i am using a 33cm Wheel
    Immersion I do not like FAKE or Cans EFFECTS!
    They are usless and kills other usefull effects!!

    Also i did NOT Test if this works with fake effect like Engine vibration or shift effect
    But one effect is needed to make it all work
    FFB bump amplification 35% necessary for Curbs ,asphalt edges,manhole covers possibel you have to go above 35%
     
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  13. canF1

    canF1 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2016
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0
    Gamepad user with 2000 hours, I've never felt this much unbinded? from the car, all I feel is curbs now and that is useless. Car is sliding all over the place, no ffb;
    Traction loss, no ffb;
    a kiss with kerbs, gamepad goes crazy.
    Why do you take away something that works very well and doesn't need any development?
    And gamepad users are minor, so leave them be. Now we have to fight to get what we had in the past, but will I do it?
    Of course I won't because i couldn't stand driving a car 2 minutes with this ffb.
    Someone mentioned a "legacy ffb option", maybe that's the only way. Other than that, 2000 hours absence of raceroom is incoming, at least :)
    Wow I've never thought raceroom will lose it's precision(and reputation, according to me) on controllers, where acc sucked at the time. Now things changed.
     
  14. Turtle Power

    Turtle Power Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2018
    Ratings:
    +296 / 0 / -0
    Can't see myself using gamepads for RR or any other sim titles but fair enough, its good to know what is happening with the world of gamepad users. Maybe this time, the focus is on steering wheels?
     
  15. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2018
    Ratings:
    +748 / 0 / -0
    I didn't realise there had been big changes there to be honest. @Christian G ??
     
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  16. majuh

    majuh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2015
    Ratings:
    +203 / 0 / -0
    Technically, gamepads have rumble effects, not FFB. The rumbling still works when cornering for me with my Logitech Cordless Rumblepad 2.
     
  17. Turtle Power

    Turtle Power Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2018
    Ratings:
    +296 / 0 / -0
    Why I can't feel any curb effects since the new FFB update? I am using Nintendo (NES) gamepad.
     
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  18. Christian G

    Christian G Topological Agitator Beta tester

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2015
    Ratings:
    +2,393 / 0 / -0
    Can you tell us what gamepad you're using please?
    Some settings have indeed changed for gamepads and people using gamepad-like contrllers might need to adapt their analog sector and return multiplier settings. But as you are an experienced gamepad user I assume you've already done that.

    What I can say for now is that gamepad FFB is still being worked on and should see some more refinements in the future. But certain effects that were really useful for gamepads, first and foremost kerb effect, aren't part of the FFB code anymore.
    Hi majuh, does the wireless version have a xinput<>directinput switch or are you possibly using any xinput emulators with your Rumblepad, or special Steam settings? Because afaIk Rumblepads are DirectInput devices and I've had no luck with DirectInput and the new FFB so far.
     
  19. ⅀ℕiↅϻΔ

    ⅀ℕiↅϻΔ Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2021
    Ratings:
    +8 / 0 / -0
    You need to change to this NEW one.Its way better FFB cos its Direct drive :D
     

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  20. majuh

    majuh Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2015
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    +203 / 0 / -0
    It's DirectInput, this gamepad is so old that it doesn't have a switch at all. I'm not using x360ce or similar tools for RaceRoom, and the Steam controller settings are the default ones. The rumbling works out of the box for me.
     
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