RD raceclub not doing well

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Skybird, Oct 3, 2015.

  1. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    After just having read a thread at Racedepartment about the decline in their R3E racing club activities (I am no member there, however), I wonder how much online activities like leagues and clubs are something the business success and perspective of R3E is depending on. I am not much interested in MP myself, I stick to SP against the AI, but ther low numbers of online players whenever I look at a forum or Steam Charts of the game'S online server lobby, really keeps you wondering how a company can maintain a game with so little interest of people only.

    I once again must attribute major responibility for the low profile R3E has in customer awareness, to the business model, like was mentioned in the RD thread as well.

    My concern is to what degree the sim'S survivability is affected by these low numbers, mainly because we still depend on always-online conneciton to run it. I would hate to learn in one year that the sim is dead and cannot be played anymore, I also would hate to learn that those 200 bucks I invested into it, had been burned up already after one and a half year of gameplay for me.

    Has Raceroom a longterm strategy that is realistic, or does it just economically live from month to month for just as long as it lasts? Are there any numbers that reveal some info on how many customers bought the sim, and how big the groups of exclusive SP and MP players are? I would expect that the SP still bear the lion'S share of the economic survivability of R3E.

    Personally I still think what I stated earlier: that the old heritage from SimBin, the business model and the bad reputation due to the early release start, is hanging around R3E's neck like a heavy millstone.

    Cut. It. Off. Immediately.

    P.S. The thread that got me started thinking:
    http://www.racedepartment.com/threads/time-to-say-goodbye-sort-of.111495/
     
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    Last edited: Oct 3, 2015
  2. Drei

    Drei Well-Known Member

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    i was doing a couple of races with RD, and i think the biggest problem (and in some cases the big advantage) with club races in R3E is the generation who plays it. this game is not for kids, not because someone declared or said that, but because it seems, that mostly the older generations sticked to it (lets say 25-30+). this means most of us have job, wife, kids etc... many times it happaned to me, that i wanted to attend on a race, but i had to do ovetime, the kids didnt go to bed in time, they were sick, my wife planned to do something else, the races were started in a too late hour etc... thats how it goes.... but on the other hand when we finnaly were able to bring enough ppl together, the race were awsome, because most of us didnt think as a child...no ramming, spinning, bullshitting around the track, just pure racing with lots of fun with respect to others.... i liked that....
    unfortunately the new generation, who still has a bit more time to play do not have the tenacity (not sure thats the right word...) for racing titles, they will not spend hours to practice or play with the setups, rather jumping into pcars, ruining some races, laughing on other ppl frustration, than go to play counterstrike or go do other stuff, they dont like to go down deep in anything, thats my experience...
    i dont think that any other business modell would change this situation. if someone spend 200 bucks on a game before he realise that it is not good for him, it is his fault. r3e let you customize what you would like to pay for, so it mostly on you. i clearly stated in other threads, that i have no problem with this business modell, it works for me, it can work for others as well. however i would support the idea to be able to purchase a starter package for a reasonable price with a car and livery from each class, and a couple of tracks (but im sure that would cause the next hipe about what cars and what tracks should be included....).
     
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  3. AnthonyRofail

    AnthonyRofail Member

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    I think the main problem is that the game content is way over priced for a sim. I own all the tracks and most of the cars, but in the series that simracing.uk run I can see the reluctance of people wanting to buy content. I don't blame them because for a few tracks and a couple of cars your on $50. But you can by another game in full and with mod capability for the same price, look this sim is nice, but value for money most definitely not. You stated yourself you spent over 200 on it and I think I am also around there for the same amount. Its sad, because for that I can't even fuel, I have no tyre compounds, no tyre temps and the damper adjustment is not the greatest, yes the sounds are awesome and gameplay is pretty realistic, but its the whole package, everything that draws the crowds, not just an handful of things.

    Just my thoughts.

    Ant
     
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  4. Cheeseman

    Cheeseman Well-Known Member

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    I think it is partly due to the high price and also the issue with always online that put many people off. This game is definitely not cheap compared to many games in the market while the way the content are presented, it also turns a lot of people off with a typical F2P-esque store front.

    I am having issues with my internet connection with unstable ping, I cant even login into the game these days because the game is designed as always online. Or get kicked out from the game half way because I lost connection briefly. Even though I just want some races with the AI which it should not requiring a persistent internet connection.

    I dont know how S3 rectify this, maybe they should move the store into Steam considering Steam do have microtrasaction support with listed DLCs like track packs and car packs on the store. The store discount thing would not work for existing content though.
     
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  5. Lasse Oinas

    Lasse Oinas Well-Known Member

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    Well it does cost money to join the club events at Racedepartement, this lowers the number of people joining. Racedepartment should have free servers that always are up for members. Maybe they could work out something togheter with Raceroom and setup servers that have all the tracks in rotation for each class. Run 15min practice and 15min qual. with 20 min race. Oh and only use GP layots on the tracks.
     
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  6. richlevy2003

    richlevy2003 Well-Known Member

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    I was a bit bummed to see the Rd r3e club dissolved like that, I was not able to race online with my previous rig, after a work filled summer 7days a week, 8-12 hours per day... I just had very little time for myself. Now that the rig and Internet are up to it... I am also near that 200 mark, before this game I would not have considered that expense.

    I agree with drei where he says "i would support the idea to be able to purchase a starter package for a reasonable price with a car and livery from each class, and a couple of tracks (but im sure that would cause the next hipe about what cars and what tracks should be included....)"

    It makes the most sense, everyone would have a decent starter base to play with, and hopefully they could always find those tracks and cars online for racing.
     
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  7. James Cook

    James Cook Well-Known Member

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    Read about this the other day. It's a shame. I wanted to take part in some of the RD events but the start times are too early for me. Similarly to @Drei , everyday family life pushes my gaming time back to around 10pm. By then most race events are finished. That's just my personal reason for not taking part, however, the success of race events for other sims suggests this isn't a problem for many.

    It could be (a lack of) features? I'm sure this is an issue for some. That said, there's enough about R3E to host great club racing events, even if the game is a little bare bones in terms of sim features.

    I'm going to separate business model and cost. The business model (F2P) isn't popular because it's clearly a misnomer as far as R3E is concerned. It's a modular product, which should be great (I think it is) but the sales model seems to be misunderstood. The game does itself no favours here.

    Cost? I think this a major factor. R3E is expensive compared to its rivals. I'm not sure that can be debated. Personal value is a different thing but when the competition is offering a full package with mod support for substantially less, where are most players going to go?

    Sorry, I know these business model threads annoy some people but it's the elephant in the room. Poor turnout at RD is symptomatic of the wider problem of low numbers playing R3E.
     
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  8. Rodger Davies

    Rodger Davies Well-Known Member

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    Good posts so far; will add some more thoughts of my own later but I personally enjoy R3E because of the races against AI primarily; I feel this is the area in which it excels for me and I wasn't willing to buy into it before this was the case.

    I used to be in, and run, several GTR2 leagues (actually, I still run a server for one) but haven't been able to attend a race for years as it's just not feasable to plan Sunday evenings that far in advance any more.

    I enjoy the 'offline' races in the game immensely though, so this is what keeps me involved. I must say though, that I share the OP's fear of "what if" something happens that prevents me being able to connect to it long-term. It's frustrating enough now that I can often get kicked off at the end of a race against AI due to not having a connection.

    I've been happy to spend the money because I think the content and game itself is great quality, and I hope they can continue to sustain it long-term, but it is certainly a worry that it might one day be gone. A proper 'offline mode' would help tremendously in this aspect, and overcome one of the more common objections I see when discussing this great title elsewhere.
     
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  9. Alex Bonner

    Alex Bonner Active Member

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    Interesting reading. From my point of view the content is fairly priced. I blew $100's on iracing and didn't enjoy it half as much. I picked the right time to buy content and kept my mates updated on what's on discount this week. However that said there really should have been a $50 (or whatever) 1 off buy all content option. Owning DTM13/14 made it lots easier for me to get going, DTM was £6 on steam sales last time I see it. When you break down the cost they are practically giving it away. Think of it this way- BMW £2, Merc £2, Audi £2 inc. all liveries then all the tracks for free.

    Mods
    So Race 07/GTR, rfactor 1 & 2, AC have done and will live on because of the extra user made content. But this will kill the DLC I hear you cry. Just look at ALL the expansion packs for Race07 that was intergrated into mods that needed you to buy the expansion packs for a sound file or whatever. Rfactor done very well with next to no included content. Look on AC.net, you'll be hard pushed to find any member that's missing the DLC tag below their name. If you feel the need to govern it just use Steam Workshop to distribute approved user made content. Grab 100 trusted forum members/beta testers to try out and rate the stuff before it goes public. I've recently got into insurgency and that uses Steam Workshop very well indeed. It's fully automatic, connect to server and whatever missing mods/maps are downloaded and installed.

    I said it a few weeks ago but I truly believe the WIP early access period killed this game but I have an idea. Repackage the game as GTR3 . Label as "new sound, new tracks, new cars, dedicated hosting" and none of that is a lie. Include all content at £€$ price and let us make your content licence free in mod form.

    Hosting club servers should cost no more than the electric used. I would gladly host a weekly race for my club / league and wonder why RD members can't do the same?

    Would be the biggest sin in sim racing if Raceroom died.
     
  10. theravenousbeast

    theravenousbeast Well-Known Member

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    The other more obvious issues have been pointed out so I'll just leave this one in. There is a fairly big number of people who will never see R3E as the successor to GTR2 and R07 just because of the inability to mod the game.
     
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  11. Sean Kenney

    Sean Kenney Well-Known Member

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    I found another group that was more active and consistent than RD, especially with my timezone. Paying RD for R3e is silly atm(speaking from experience) ...probably what a lot are saying.

    I was disappointed in the R3e participation on RD. There are clearly a number of reasons for this.
     
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  12. Jake Fangio

    Jake Fangio Member

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    If Race Department start having free servers,there won't be a Race Department for long.They rely on our money to rent the servers and run the website.The onus is on S3 to reduce the price of the content,not on Race Department to allow free servers.
    I would of loved to have run some races on RD,but work always got in the way.
     
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  13. Ryan Callan

    Ryan Callan Well-Known Member

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    We have had 59 drivers participate in the TCOne league in total, unfortunately almost half of these dropped out by the halfway point of the eight round season, 50% due to your normal dropout (can't commit, get beaten, don't fulfil their competitive expectations, other issues), but 50% due to bugs with the multiplayer.
     
  14. GooseCreature

    GooseCreature Well-Known Member

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    Until multiplayer moves on from alpha status surely all leagues/groups are also in an alpha state, can't really complain that people still have problems when the final version of mp is not even coded yet, way, way too early to start a league when halfway through a season not only might the whole mp side be upgraded (in the past losing all server info) with new features but the car physics changing midseason rather loses its authenticity. Take it for what it is, WIP and use this time to perfect your side of things and build a group of like minded racers ready and willing for when mp goes beta :D
    I personally go by the words of Jay Ekkel in the recent magazine interview, the future looks " EPIC" that will do for me! :)
    Maybe it's an age thing but will always take quality over quantity!
     
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  15. Brandon Wright

    Brandon Wright Well-Known Member

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    I agree that the price and business model don't do it any favors but in my experience there's also another factor at play: the fact that the "free 2 race" cars feel.........weird/odd/strange/bad. I've tried to get my sim racing buddies onboard with R3E and every one of them tried the free cars and said that the physics/ffb feel too weird and all of them binned it. I don't recall any of them complaining about the price or the business model, but all of them said they didn't like the way the cars felt and never gave it a second chance.

    It is very bizarre to me that they have this "F2P" model where you're allowed to sample a few of the cars (which should be intended to entice you into buying more) and they are the worst feeling cars in the game. It's like a steak restaurant giving out McDonald's as a free sample of what they offer. I was the same when I first tried it "wow, it looks and sound great but the cars feel like boats and are not enjoyable to drive" and I gave up on it. Something lured me back, I tried some of the newer cars and found that they felt better, still not great but good enough to tolerate. I really hope the upcoming improvements finally make this sim feel how it should, and that the improvements are quickly spread to other cars (especially the free ones).

    I also agree that there should be some kind of "starter pack" that would allow people to get started with content easier. I think a good package would be one car from each class (probably not any from the most current Experiences due to licensing issues, but one from past Experiences like DTM/ADAC '13) and 8-10 of the most popular tracks. That would get you over a dozen cars and about half of the tracks for, say, $40-50, which is a much more appealing and useable package. It would also mean everyone has an eligible car for multiplayer races and with that many tracks they're fairly likely to find a race they can enter. Also, S3S could have permanent servers running for all the free tracks (or 3 or 4 servers that rotate through the free tracks) to ensure that people who bought the starter pack always have an online race they can join. This should be enough to get people involved, which will get them hooked, which will lead to them buying more content (in theory).
     
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  16. GooseCreature

    GooseCreature Well-Known Member

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    It has been mentioned by Dev's that all the free cars will also get the new physics and one or more easier to cope with cars! Fully agree with you though Brandon, so strange to have the teaser free content such a handful, although the two free circuit tracks are great to drive (in a decent motor) and can't fault the hillclimb for a blast, so some bad but some good in the free content.
    Also once you've done a few laps there's sod all wrong with the free cars, they're just a handful and hardly enticement to spend more dollar!
     
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  17. Sean Kenney

    Sean Kenney Well-Known Member

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    Multiplayer is an Alpha phase, so having huge expectations of the MP is a bit naive....although it has been in Alpha for a while...it is really in form of beta, but semantics. Clearly it is not near the finished product and suffers because of it.
     
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  18. Revvin

    Revvin Member

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    The pricing model has been the same for years, just because now one club closes doesn't mean that pricing model is wrong.
     
  19. Christian G

    Christian G Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    What I've read on many platforms over the years is that there are quite a number of people who stick to racing the AI for the same reasons, like
    inconsiderate/aggressive/dumb people on servers,
    leagues becoming boring due to people dropping out,
    online/connection issues,
    they prefer hotlapping (which is covered with competitions)
    and so on.
    So I'd say the number of potential drivers for MP-leagues is rather small from the start, compared to how many people play it (more or less frequently). And I agree that pick-up races seem to be favoured by the younger crowd. Hell, how are they supposed to commit to a schedule spanning several months when they are having difficulties to stick to any interest for longer than it takes to upload a picture on instagram. ;)

    Anyway, the missing features (fuel, tyres, setup-options, rating/scoring system) and issues (disconnects, lagging, warping) certainly deter the serious crowd.
    But I can assure you that those are being worked on and progress is being made. I know it's a broken record, and J-F admitted himself that the game was released too early with too many wrong decisions being taken in the basal layout of the game. Those have to be ironed out now while not breaking the rest of the stuff, which takes time.

    R3E is not cheap, especially for those people who, for whatever reason, feel the need to buy every single item in the store. But I'm convinced that if that was the only issue and everything else was brilliant, most people wouldn't care. So getting those features in and most importantly getting them right is probably the best thing they can do. Which they are working on whenever commitments allow for it, remember, Raceroom...Experiences...obligations...
     
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  20. Brandon Wright

    Brandon Wright Well-Known Member

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    It's much more than that. Check the servers at any given time and there's maybe, maybe a couple dozen people racing. There have been many times where I checked the servers and there's less than 10 people total racing. Similarly, if you check the steam charts they tell the same sad story that very few people are playing this sim. For example, last month PCARS had over 3,000 players, R3E barely broke 400 and has never even come close to breaking 1,000. I personally think this has a lot to do with the fact that people try the free cars and think they feel weird, so they just dismiss the sim entirely and never give it a second thought. Combined with how a glance at the business model gives the impression that content is very expensive, many people just don't give it a chance.

    R3E Steam Stats:

    http://steamcharts.com/app/211500

    AC Steam Stats:
    http://steamcharts.com/app/244210

    PCARS Steam Stats:
    http://steamcharts.com/app/234630

    I concur, which is why I harp about the free cars feeling so bad. If the free cars felt brilliant, combined with the brilliant graphics and sounds, more people would be willing to give it a shot and look into buying some more content despite the fact that there are some important features missing.
     
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