SecondMonitor (Timing & status App)

Discussion in 'Community Workshop' started by Winzarten, Oct 26, 2017.

  1. Rob Fitness

    Rob Fitness New Member

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    I just started using this app as i only just came across it in the AUSNZ discord channel while poking around... I LOVE IT....
    I am not that good a driver to use the telemetry but am really loving all the rest, i can especially now see when my damn pedals decide to only register 80-90% throttle position. thanks so much for your work on this app. I popped in to report a stutter every 10 or so secs but see you are looking into it already. love your work. thanks again.
     
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  2. Rob Fitness

    Rob Fitness New Member

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    just a couple of suggestions
    - Is it possible to tell the app which Display to start on?
    - Is it possible to force it to start full screen too?

    thanks :)
     
  3. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member

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    +1 I usually just keep it running but now and again it needs restating and putting back in place. It's no big deal but it would be nice....
     
  4. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    It is definitaly on my to-do list. I too am tired of moving the app after every start :D
     
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  5. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    I will quickly come back to this
    I feel that this is a misconception that the majority of the simracing crowd has, I certainly had it before I started making the app. :) That telemetry is some matrix level stuff, for which you require a masters degree in mechanical engineering to make use.
    But the truth is that telemetry is just a toolbox, and sure, you can spent days analyzing every single data stream to get the maximum from the setup, but some use cases are so trivial that I don't get why I didn't start using the toolbox sooner. ;)

    One perfect example for me is ride height. Generally, you want to follow a very trivial rule when setting ride height - as low, as you can, without bottoming out. The bottoming out is really important in older downforce cars, which generated significant portion of the downforce via the ground effect. Bottomed car = no ground effect. But how low is too low? How much are you bottoming up? How much does it affects your downforce? Doing this just by feel, or comparing lap times can be so tedious, because there are so many factors comming into the overall lap time, that tbh before I didn't really bother with setting up the corect ride height.

    But telemetry makes this close to trivial, you just open the viewer, load a single lap, and open a simple speed/downforce chart (comming in next release, and only working in R3E, because that is the only sim providing downforce information :D)
    SecondMonitor_2019-04-23_17-26-37.png
    And you immediately see that at the higher speeds your downforce varies a lot. Which is weird.

    So, you open a the ride height / speed chart (also comming :D )
    SecondMonitor_2019-04-23_17-26-02.png
    And in the same speed range you can see, that rear is very close to 0, and on some datapoints even below zero. It takes 1minute, and you immediately know if you have a problem. :)
     
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  6. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    v4.7 is out.
    Main changes:
    • In the main application, in multiclass races, individual classes will be marked by a color ribbon on start of each row on the datagrid, and also via a circle above each driver on the map. This is to improve situation awareness, in multiclass races. :)
    • In telemetry viewer: I've added few new charts, mostly related to ride height. (full chart list, as usuall, on wiki https://github.com/Winzarten/SecondMonitor/wiki/Aggregated-Charts :) ). It is now also possible to select bands on histogram charts by using the shift + left mouse button. Datapoints contributing to selected bands will be shown on the track map. Turning off sector coloring might be preferable for visiblity. I would like to bring similiar functionality also for scatterplots, but obviously, individual point selection wouldn't cut it there :D
    Now, little to the next update, which I hope will be a major version (5.0), which means some new major functionality. This feature will be only of use to the SP crowd (sorry MP people), little experimental so in the end I don't know if will work :D

    So, I'm a SP person and while I dabbled into MP, mainly using SRS, the accessibility and freedom of running what I want, how I want and when I want, always prevailed. And now all major sims offer AI that can give you good, close, racing. But SP for me has two main problems, that MP doesn't. That is isolation of individual races, and often it is all, or nothing. If you set-up a championship, the main goal (at least for me) is to win. Battling in middle field can be fun, but I could aswell run individual races for that. But when individual races finished, nothing that happened really mattered... There is no indication how well I did, or how well am I doing in the long run.

    Another issue is difficulty selection. If you select wrong difficulty, the fun factor can plummet really fast. And keeping track of ideal difficulty for each sim and each series can be pretty cumbersome.
    In MP these problems do not exists, difficulty is solved by matchmaking, and the isolation of races is fixed by rating. Which also can turn into finishing in top 10, not just top 3, into a success.

    So, that's why I will try to create a rating system for Single Player. On paper it looks like it could work. Split the sim difficulties into rating bands, assing a rating to the player and select a appropriate difficulty for his rating. And after race evaluate how he performed and change the rating accordingly. I will most likely try to use Glicko-2 rating system (modified version of is used i.e. by CS:GO). The app already knows all it needs to know - when the session started/finished, who is the player, and on what position finished... all that is left is apply a rating algorithm.. which shouldn't be that complicated. The hardest part will be finetuning the numbers. But I think it could really help to give some context to individual races, and help SP with sense of progress. Ofc, the feature will be optional, and there will be posibilty to turn it off, and also configure how harsh it should be (i.e. if it should punish restarts).
    So, that is the idea, if you have any question, potential roadblocks, suggestions, I'm all ears :)
     
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  7. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member

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    Love this. I'm a SP man too 99% of the time. Usually I have to create some kind of narrative in my head just to keep me interested, especially if something goes wrong during a race. Some kind of rating or progression system would be brilliant!
     
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  8. Rob Fitness

    Rob Fitness New Member

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    Thanks for your update. and sharing, I really like using it, and probably 90% of my R3E time is in SP too. :)
     
  9. Rob Fitness

    Rob Fitness New Member

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    is great it now opens where you want it too and border-less, nice one :)

    might want to check on the engine temp colour changing as getting hotter, as it appears to be staying green even when hot and taking damage.
    upload_2019-4-28_11-44-44.png
     
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  10. Bull Shark

    Bull Shark Active Member

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    Is there a Ipad version as well? As I race on triples I do not have room for a 4th monitor. Or can this be picked up by other pc’s in the same network?

    Ps: I’m purely a SP player myself. :D
     
  11. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    I will have to check that and fine tune for r3e, as 120degrees is (afaik) perfectly normal oil temperature. Infact, in some race cars it is the target oil temperature. But I will change it for r3e so it is colored correctly. ;)

    Sadly, the nature of the application (windows desktop application), doesn't allow it to be converted run on IPad/
    It should also work on another pc in network -
    https://github.com/Winzarten/SecondMonitor/wiki/Setting-up-Second-Monitor-on-separate-computer
     
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  12. Bull Shark

    Bull Shark Active Member

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    Thanks for the info. A second computer is fine for me as I then can use my laptop. Will give it a go..
     
  13. Racki

    Racki Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    I have the issue that the loading bar often does never finish in telemetry view when I select a lap.
    When this happens also the timing app does not collect data anymore.
     
  14. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    Could you please provide the log file, after the problem occurs next? There is a "open log directory" in the settings.
    Does it happen also when you try to load the same lap by using directly the telemetry viewer executable?
     
    Last edited: Apr 28, 2019
  15. Racki

    Racki Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    Thanks for your immediate response!
    After closing RR, 2ndM and TelemetryViewer it is working. I'll try to reproduce the problem im the upcoming days.
    I'll keep you updated!
     
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  16. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    I've pushed a new update with two new charts, that were requested by @Thomas Jansen :)
    • Lateral vs Longitudinal Acceleration Chart
    • Rear vs Front roll angle chart. Only works in R3E (the only simulator providing roll information), and only with telemetry files caputred from this version.
    In some of the following releases I will most likely create more generic version of the Rear vs Front roll angle (based on ride height). That could be used in sims that don't provide Roll angle information (all except r3e)

    In the meantime, work continues also on the rating module. He is how it currently looks in application. I've reworked the bottom-right area a little.
    The rating stuff will disappear when disabled, or when MP is run, allowing more space for the map.
    2019-04-29_17-44-44.png

    There will be a separate rating for each class (CR), and one for each sim (SM), that will be used as a base for classes the player hasn't run yet. Your races will contribute to both. The app can suggest a difficulty for each known class, or you can select your own difficulty, which is usefull in first few races, too boost your ranking, as the default rating is around 84 AI difficulty. It can be also usefull when running championships, where you cannot change difficulty in sim.

    The bottom lights show the session run, and session state. You can either run quick races without qualification, or full weekends with practice and qually. Doesn't matter. AI rating will be based on the difficulty + their qualification times. If no qually is done, then simple linear function will be used.

    And as it will be racing againts AI, and we know that first lap can be tricky, there will be a safe 2 lap period after start, during which you can restart the race without any penalty. After that, restart of race = finishing last. The only manual interaction required is the difficulty synchronization between sim and application (as that cannot be read from shared memory), everything else works without you needing to worry about anything, just racing :)

    The first version will be very basic in terms of customization, but that will improve later on.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 29, 2019
  17. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member

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    How does the rating system work with adaptive AI? That's what I tend to use across all classes....
     
  18. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member

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    Hi, just another thing. The Turbo pressure box is still going crazy, only seems to be when pressures are set to KPa. When at minus numbers its displaying to 2 decimal places and only 1 decimal place when positive.....
     
  19. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    Adaptive AI will be difficult, as there is no where to tell which AI difficulty got chosen for the session. So you either set the difficulty where you think you're, or let it on auto (after you have increased rating from the initial closer to your real level).
    Technically, it will work, but the AI rating will be off, because of guesed difficulty level.

    And thanks for reminding me of the turbo gauge, I totally forgot. :)
     
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  20. Alex Hodgkinson

    Alex Hodgkinson Sector3 Developer

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    One suggestion I have is Yaw angle, but I don't know how you'd calculate it.