Sector3! Make a normal AI!!!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by GTDnipro, Mar 10, 2017.

  1. ChatCureuil

    ChatCureuil Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2017
    Ratings:
    +307 / 0
    I never found a good value. Or I'm first in quali and alone in race, or I have what looks like a real race (with faster drivers than me) and AI pushes me in the back. I didn't try since months now cause that's too frustrating, but I saw on a replay that AI was often very close to my back in hard braking parts, so close that it touches me several times while braking (of course I end off-track). :confused::mad:
    Playing online is the only solution for me. ;)
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  2. Maddog

    Maddog Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Ratings:
    +30 / 0
    Virtual mirror in cockpit it's essential for me, i can see AI car if change the line but still issue when AI car hit me on side when i invaded his line.
    This is for me the best AI and best sim, i abbandoned Iracing for raceroom but Sector3 please, please fix the AI aggressive or add an aggressive slider.
     
  3. heppsan

    heppsan Well-Known Member Beta tester

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Ratings:
    +1,039 / 0
    Well, you shouldn't invade on his line.. . The AI will not back off as in other racing games and give you his line. One of the best part about the AI in raceroom!!
     
  4. Maddog

    Maddog Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Ratings:
    +30 / 0
    Sorry i mean that AI invade me when i'm on my line in straightway and push me out of track.
    My english it'so bad
     
  5. -nOiSe-

    -nOiSe- Well-Known Member Beta tester

    Joined:
    May 9, 2015
    Ratings:
    +49 / 0
    Sometimes this happens also to me and with both "low" or "high" AI Strength: opponent cars don't make anything to avoid me (
    especially when I spin) and they try to push me out of the track when we are side by side, as if they wanted to get back into the trajectory... and they brake very soon before the turns.
    I played a lot of Single Races, but I don't remember how many with the "Adaptive AI"...
     
  6. Maddog

    Maddog Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2016
    Ratings:
    +30 / 0
    Sector3 devs read this post or you don't care???
     
  7. heppsan

    heppsan Well-Known Member Beta tester

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Ratings:
    +1,039 / 0
    The AI in pCars is the worst kind of AI. They cut corners, and they will ram you on the other side if you happen to be there when they get back on track!
    They are also easilly manipulated to go of track and crash into a barrier if you go up beside them and turn against them.. .
    They are unpredictabble lunatics that never hold or keep to their lines, why would S3 want to make the AI like that?
    rFactor's AI is pretty good though.


    On what tracks and with what car class have this accured?
    If the AI comes over in your line, ramming you from the side on a straight, this is a bug.
     
  8. Tuborg

    Tuborg Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2015
    Ratings:
    +454 / 0
    Nice to hear :D
     
  9. -nOiSe-

    -nOiSe- Well-Known Member Beta tester

    Joined:
    May 9, 2015
    Ratings:
    +49 / 0
    Well it's not a true ram, but just "push" to me to the side.
    Mmmmh I didn't remember exactly: I remember something in Mid Ohio and Red Bull Ring (especially in the straight after the 2nd hairpin), MAYBE "Adac Gt Masters 2014" and "Touring Classic", but I'm not sure... :neutral: I have to check...
     
  10. fl0wf1r3

    fl0wf1r3 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2016
    Ratings:
    +215 / 0
    Yesterday evening I realized that the AI is not always bad. I realized huge differences between different cars. The AI with GT3 cars behaves really rude. But yesterday evening I did a race for the first time with the Audi TT RS on the Nordschleife so the AI was not trained at all for this combo. What should I say it was fantastic :) in my opinion they behaved totally different then with GT3 cars. Got to do it today again :)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. -nOiSe-

    -nOiSe- Well-Known Member Beta tester

    Joined:
    May 9, 2015
    Ratings:
    +49 / 0
    Mmmmh, so the AI must be trained for all the tracks with the "adaptive" option?
    It could take years... :astonished:
    :tearsofjoy:
     
  12. Mr_Mints_Taboo

    Mr_Mints_Taboo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    Ratings:
    +152 / 0
    The AI adapted for me in the '92 DTM cars at the Nordschleife is a joy.
    As long as you don't expect to be able to overtake at every corner, but to grab those opportunities when they do come along, then all will be well.

    Bathurst is a bit hairier, but I figure that the AI have just "gone native" on me.:)

    Would still like to see more mistakes from the AI, especially when I am pressuring them for a reasonable length of time, but that's a personal preference.

    Considering all the variables - track, car choice, AI level, Us (Yeah, a random bunch if ever there was one) I think the AI are remarkably sane.
     
  13. Mr_Mints_Taboo

    Mr_Mints_Taboo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2017
    Ratings:
    +152 / 0
    Nah, it's not quite that bad.
    There are some long explanations, but basically for the lazy.......

    Do ten laps of a track with the AI set to your normal preference.
    This gives it a baseline for that car. (If you have already done loads of racing with the car, skip this.)

    Set up a championship. 2 races per round is best. Enjoy.

    You might win a bit too easily (or not) the first time, but the cars get more challenging the more you play.

    This is what I did with the DTMs and I finished 5th out of 16 cars after 10 rounds.
    Just about perfect to my mind.

    Try again. (Although R3E will have deleted the details of that last championship, so you have to put them back in manually........Why R3E, why?)

    Enjoy.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  14. CheerfullyInsane

    CheerfullyInsane Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2015
    Ratings:
    +318 / 0
    Nope, just the first couple of times you run a new car.
    The logic is as follows:
    When you start a race, the AAI checks to see if it has any information on that car/track combo.
    If not, it checks to see if it has information on the car on other tracks, and uses an average of the AI difficuty on those.
    If not, it checks to see if it has information on the track with other cars, and uses an average of the AI difficuty on those.
    And finally, if all the above fail (i.e. you've never run the track nor the car before) it uses the average difficulty of every entry.

    End result, the more combos you do, the more likely the AAI is to get it right the first time.

    Or you can simply use pixeljetstreams tool to insert the data, assuming you can get a decent database from someone.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. -nOiSe-

    -nOiSe- Well-Known Member Beta tester

    Joined:
    May 9, 2015
    Ratings:
    +49 / 0
    Ok, thanks for the info!
    Another question: if I trained the AI playing with keyboards and now I'm playing with steering wheel, it's better ti train it again (if we can...)? the AI behavior could be different?
     
  16. heppsan

    heppsan Well-Known Member Beta tester

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Ratings:
    +1,039 / 0
    Depends if you are faster with a wheel or not, but I guess you will be. So probably a good idea.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. CheerfullyInsane

    CheerfullyInsane Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2015
    Ratings:
    +318 / 0
    Slight misunderstanding there. The index-file which contains all the lap-times doesn't govern AI behaviour as such.
    It's merely a tool for the AI to pick the right level to race at, but the AI itself remains the same.
    If the AAI picks level 105, then it is no different than running at a fixed AI level 105.

    That said, I would imagine that moving from a keyboard to a wheel have made you significantly faster, or at the very least more consistent. So re-training the AI isn't a bad idea, if for no other reason than the R3E AI is heavily dependant on having the right AI set in order to get good racing.
    The index-file itself can be found in:
    Documents\My Games\SimBin\RaceRoom Racing Experience\UserData\Player1\aiadaptation.xml
    Don't delete it, just move it to your desktop, or rename it or something.
    Next time you start up R3E, a new one will be generated with no entries in it.
    The quickest way to get good results is to use pixeljetstreams tool which can be found here:
    https://github.com/pixeljetstream/r3e-adaptive-ai-primer
    Completely un-intrusive, just extract to a folder of your choice, and you're good to go.
    After that, follow this routine:


    Assuming it works (which it will) what you can do next is use your old index-file (the one you moved/renamed) and move it into the Primer Tool seed-folder. That way it'll take the AI lap-times from that, and use it to find comparable AI times.
    Should you feel the need, I've attached my own index-file as well. Bit of everything in it, but I've redone it so many times I don't have a complete set of tracks for any class. Still, it's a starting point. :D

    Here's the thing though. When you start over, the AAI will start out at 80% which is kinda slow even for me.
    So the first few times you train them, use a combo where you have an approximate idea of your AI level.
    That way the AAI gets a good average to start from.
    Once you have that, you can simply run one race against AAI, and then adjust from there with the tool.

    And of course, should something go completely wrong, just delete the newly created index-file, copy your old one over, and everything is back to normal.
    Any problems, give us a shout, and I'll see what I can do.
     

    Attached Files:

    • Like Like x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
  18. CheerfullyInsane

    CheerfullyInsane Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2015
    Ratings:
    +318 / 0
    Btw, for those using the AI tool, here's the updated asset-file.
    Should contain everything up to and including the 235i.
    Just extract, and over-write.
     

    Attached Files:

    • Useful Useful x 1
  19. -nOiSe-

    -nOiSe- Well-Known Member Beta tester

    Joined:
    May 9, 2015
    Ratings:
    +49 / 0
    It's seems complicated, but I'll try... :dizzy:
    Thanks for all! :grin:
     
  20. CheerfullyInsane

    CheerfullyInsane Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2015
    Ratings:
    +318 / 0
    It's not, really.
    Like everything else, it's more complicated to explain the process than to actually do it.
     
    • Like Like x 1