@Sector3: So what is coming next? How's the plan?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Ernie, Jun 3, 2016.

  1. Don Rudi

    Don Rudi Well-Known Member

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    The priorities you list are for the multiplayer only. For me as a single player only the flag system is interesting and all other single player related stuff comes in your lowest priority category.

    I am not saying a good multiplayer mode is not important, of course it is, but please do not forget there are a lot of people who (prefer to) race offline as well.
     
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  2. nate

    nate Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    You realize that content is always announced literally months in advance from its inevitable release right? And you realize that announcing some content that will arrive months later has absolutely zero impact on hotfixes or other patches that are aiming to improve the game, yes?

    But, I guess the devs should have pushed this patch last week and left some of the broken aspects in the game for you to find instead of taking the extra week to snuff them out and get rid of them entirely. :rolleyes:

    Big problems?

    No, what you listed is your personal wishlist for what you dream of having in a game. None of that is mandatory, or even necessary to have fun, or sim race. Beyond that, you must be very sad whenever you start up any game, because I can hardly think of any game that fits each of your criteria for being well fleshed out and with your entire wishlist there. Actually, I would say no game fits that list... Mainly because every single racing game available (sim or not) has setup exploits. The closest I can think of that matches everything you list is Race 07 and rFactor. And of course, I think the entire community sends an overwhelming message of now "necessary" all of your wishlist is... judging by how few people play rFactor now.

    Anyways, we can already filter servers, we have in game chat (albeit not fully fleshed out ;) ), we have penalties, and judging by other games, hardly anyone used night/rain/safety cars.

    With a small team, you have to prioritize, and sadly, not everything can be added. Of course I agree that I too would like to see more (features, content, fixes) but you have to be a realist. None of the above is necessary for the game, and adding it in would take time. Perhaps one day we will see super hardcore features that a fraction of the community wants, because it certainly could happen, but sometimes it's just best to fully enjoy what is before you. :)
     
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  3. Thomas Bienert

    Thomas Bienert Member

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    @nate You can't be serious about what you said, are you? Your way to argue is pretty ballsy aswell. Why do you try to hit me personaly? Just beside the point you try to undercut me with "you must be very sad whenever you start up any game" Yepp obviously that's why I am organizing one of the biggest events in R3E this summer. You should calm yourself. That this game has deficits is undenyable. May you see yourself attacked by posts like this, this would actually explain why you argue like you do in this thread.

    This is a lie! What's your filter? Sorting servers by players/ classes/ tracks? This is a joke. If you compare this kind of semi-filter to realfilters in nearly every other multiplayer game then you have only a basic lobby.


    So we are talking about that single-stream-chat at the top of the screen? Which disapears after 2 seconds? Which can't be recalled? Which can't be seen while you are in the menu and which is not comprehesible after closing the menu? You can't definetly be serious about that.

    If you would have read my post correctly you would have seen that I didnt demand to have penalties because I am aware of having penalties. I wished to have a penalty system which can create own penalties. And yes this game is made for singe player. I can remember the first few days. And tbh we are lucky that it evolved. Now take the next step.

    Nate, don't dare me. May my priorities are not perfectly sorted and may I put something of myself into because of my passion to this game. But there is clearly no problem for me to bring the opinion from our community here. So don't call it "my wishlist" because it isn't.

    If you observe the numbers of drivers that are online at the evening you don't hit the 100 mark often. A lot of the drivers that a frequently online every evening are in our communities. So pls nate stop talking this kind of bullshit and start listening! Really EVERYONE knows that your team is way to small. And we know that you don't have the permissions to do what you want. And we all take it to account. There is non of us who is really angry about you or the devs. But we can state the problems. And to have a good multiplayer experience at least an exprience which is not constantly intefered by teething troubles it needs things like a real ingamechat, favourite servers, private messages, kick and ban and for real a flagsystem! And now don't tell me you have to priorize that. Because a flagsystem is a basic mechanic of racing! I mean how can it be that there is not even a blue flag which is shown to a driver? I can understand that implenting a yellow flag isn't that easy, even I have to say that the system of codemasters, which shows you a yellow flag every time something happens, would be an improvement to nothing. But a blue flag is just mandatory!
     
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    Last edited: Jun 29, 2016
  4. fl0wf1r3

    fl0wf1r3 Well-Known Member

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    perhaps a full dynamic weather system (rain) is too much for contemporary racing games like raceroom, but a night race or fog and mist on the Nordschleife would be nice. More atmospheric effects :) its all about immersion into a virtual world. I like the atmosphere in pCars on the Nordschleife but cant stand the cheesy sounds any longer
     
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  5. nate

    nate Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    Certainly wasnt intending anything in my comments to come across as a personal attack, so if it did, Im sorry mate.

    The point was simply that everything you mentioned, could be categorized in the "things that would be nice to have" list. Which is a lengthy way to say a "wishlist." None of those things are a necessity, or mandatory to have a sim. Further, many of the things listed are just refinements of systems already in place in the game. Would they be nice to see improved one day? Absolutely, I agree with you 100%. However, that improvement comes at the cost of time, and development resources. Neither are limitless, and if both are spent on the above, this prevents other more pressing things to be taken care of. For instance, bug fixing. If new features are being solely developed by the programmers, then bug fixing would never see any time devoted to it.

    Not trying to start any arguments or deny anyone the right to speak their mind. Simply trying to state that not everything is simply a clear cut necessity in the game. Many people dont realize what an absolute time sink adding features is. And the amount of resources and time it takes to code something. Not only that, but seemingly "small" improvements that many people claim are small, are actually a lot more time intensive than they realize. For instance, if making the in game chat more robust was a simple half days work, dont you think it would be in the game already? I do, so because it isnt, I can infer that it require a lot more work than simply dedicating 4 hrs to completely revamp the entire system. And further, I can infer that the devs think their time is better spent on other things. Whether that is other features, bug fixes, or a plethora of other things.

    Anyone here is free to speak their mind and I will never say otherwise. However, when people are claiming that something is "easy" to add and wondering why it hasnt been added to the game already, they should expect some response with some reasoning as to why that is.

    Personally, I have the benefit of a slightly more 'behind the scenes' view than the average player since I do bug testing here. While Im not privy to how Sector3 operates, their goals, their roadmap, or anything related to how they run their studio, I do have a slightly better understanding of the challenges they face with adding new stuff to the game. And the sheer amount of work that goes into adding something "small." For instance, multi class support during races is a MASSIVE amount of work. While it may seem as simple as having an option in the menu to allow you to select specific opponents for a race... the AI needs to be specifically programmed to know what to do in certain scenarios in a race. Such as letting faster cars by, where to pass, when to pass, how to avoid collisions with slower cars, all while making a challenging race for the player. Along with tons of UI work to designate the different classes and results from the race. Not to mention that this needs to be done for every single car.... on every single track. Then tested... numerous times... and then repeated once something buggy is found and the process starts all over again. Hopefully you get the idea. Now apply this to other "small" issues, and you can see why things take so long to implement.

    Well, perhaps my use of language here has mistaken me. Yes we can sort by players, by server, by ping, by class, by track.... Is that not in essence, a filter? If I want to filter the entire server browser for DTM 15 races at Norisring, I can simply sort by track, go to Norisring, and find the DTM 15 class there and select it. Same end result. Beside that, are there really too many populated servers you cant find what you are looking for by simply using this method?

    Again, we have in game chat. Yes Im serious. Could it be improved? Clearly.

    Clearly you are very passionate, which is to be commended! It's nice to see those motivated to see the game improve speak their mind. However, what you listed in your post above, are not things I need in the game, nor other people. So, literally speaking, those are things you would like to see in the game (along with a selection of other people). Meaning, this is your wishlist of things to be added, and theirs. This is not a definitive list, nor does it speak for everyone. :)

    None of what I said is 'bullshit' nor am I preventing you from speaking about problems with the game. If you find bugs with the game, please report on those so they can be fixed. There is a community support forum for that, and it is quite active with people reporting various issues, and having them sorted. Sometimes they are easily fixed, and other times, they fill the bug tracker until the devs properly have time to fix them. :) But stating that you want to see night racing and that it is low on the priority list is not stating a problem with the game.

    On that note, why not help out? You are correct that the team is small, and by my count, Sector3 has 3 programmers (according to the credits in game). They have also posted before regarding hiring new programmers. Perhaps if you know someone, or know yourself, you could apply for a programming job to speed up some of these key features. :)

    The flag system is surely not something easy to implement. There needs to be a lot of code work done to properly implement and penalize once that system is in place. How will AI react to flags, how will AI react to blue flags, how do you penalize failing to yield on a blue flag, what if a car a lap up on you simply isnt passing you when you have a blue flag, should you be penalized?

    There are a ton of complex issues that are involved with creating a system like that. It isnt simply just adding a picture of a colored flag to the screen and saying a flag system is implemented in game.

    Honestly, I would recommend you take a look at the lead programmer from Assetto Corsa talk about this issue. As he describes the problems their game faces with implementing a system like you want. Take a look here (at 8mins 2 seconds), to see him discuss this for his game, and the challenges in creating a robust penalty system that is actually fair. He talks about the blue flag situation I mentioned above.

    Anyways, this post is long enough now :p

    Cheers
     
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  6. Thomas Bienert

    Thomas Bienert Member

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    @nate thanks for this kind of post now. This has an actual quality even though I dont agree within every point. So for instance if I guess right the mp started around 2014? Now we are in the middle of 16 and still we have this crappy chat. So why taking on an excuse that it is hard to implement. Obviously it is because programming stuff is hard work. And the community is willed to pay for.

    If you take another point which would give us more controll as community to connect with eachother: private messages

    This could be a worthy solution for the problems with the ingame chat. If the "Portal" is so static that you can't implement a new layer which you can manage some messages you receive or send there, there was a huge mistaken done long time before.

    To some kind you were totally right. My post is one big wish list (and keep that in mind of kinda 80 active drivers). But further more I pointed a lot of stuff that could be done and should be prioritized more then "rain" or "day/ night". And that's something I would wish that the community understands. Because the game in itself is a lot of fun. So why keep on bringing more "content". Rain etc is some kind of content.
    I see all the stuff from the perspective of an league-admin. We are some kind the base of your community and bring a huge advertising momentum. For example the facebook site (and mostly twitter too) are only sharing stuff related to the raceroom store. It's what it's made for. We as community announce a lot of events, try to hype people to drive with us, try to convince them to buy stuff, show other people how many drivers we allready got and how awesome it is to drive with us. This is all covered around our media presence and our streams. If I then say what should be said month ago, but isn't because a lot of people may don't want to write in forums or to many people are focused on features they know out of project cars. And you then get some hits like you did (again in your post):

    feels pretty sad. And I am honest. I will take this dicussion with me. A lot of people around me are frustrated about this game. So you can't tell me that a patch which would help to grow bigger communities is just nice to have. Not only because we do a lot of advertising work for RaceRoom. This game has the potential to snowball pretty hard if it only would be possible to take it as a serious e-sport title. Our opportunities to do stuff are totally numbed by this philosophy.

    And coming back to the point where you said "this is not necessary". I totally disagree. You can present this game to people who are not SimRacers and they are just shaking their head and asking why the multiplayer-section is that worse. So may I ask you why aren't you taking advantage of your position as beta-tester and applying more pressure to structures which give the permission to implement stuff. Or you should stop demoralizing people to say stuff like I did. RaceRoom is a golden cow. Easy to learn, hard to master. Excatly what people seek for.
     
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  7. Christian Göpfert

    Christian Göpfert Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    But has anybody confirmed that they are working on rain or day-night change?
    Some users would like these features, but that doesn't mean they are a priority or even being worked on.
    Because the developers are already aware of all those things you mentioned. They would like to have all those things just as bad as you. But they have to take one step at a time, there's no use (or practicality) in starting 10 different projects at the same time (at least not with a small team). So what we can do is give some input and condense community wishes into requests, which we do. But it's of little use to keep going on about the same thing every day, about issues/topics that need months to be dealt with. And a new server lobby or chat or flag system isn't something they could knock out just like that. It needs major changes and in its wake makes changes in other aspects necessary as well. It's a cascade of interdependent systems that have to be altered with great care or they will brake.

    So feel free to voice your suggestions and wishes, and be assured that you are heard and understood. Again, what you want is nothing most people wouldn't want or agree that it would improve the game, including the developers. But, as in politics, the mills are grinding slowly and those requests and suggestions aren't the only things they have to deal with.
     
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  8. Ernie

    Ernie Well-Known Member

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    I fully understand that many of these so-called "easy" features aren't that easy to implement as it seems to be. I'm working in software development by myself, and i know that some, at first glance, "simple things" can be quite difficult to solve sometimes. I also know that the "It was in Race07, why not in R3E" isn't really an argument.

    But even if the current priorities of Sector3 aren't on already mentioned flag-, rating-, chat-system, etc., but somewhere else .................. i would at least like to know, where the priorities of feature development actually are. Isn't it understandable to have a little bit more transparency?

    @Sector3: I really miss the former dev streams. They always gave a small inside-look what's going on at the studios.
     
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  9. Christian Göpfert

    Christian Göpfert Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    Not trying to answer on their behalf, but they've stated several times that they will talk about things when there is something to talk about. They already mentioned many things, also things requested here (chat, rating system, flags and so on), in the past, via the dev stream or in interviews. So if they now made another dev stream but would end up basically talking about those same things, what would that imply?

    I can understand your point and I would also like to see a new stream (also because I think J-F has great camera presence ;) ), but until now there wasn't the right time for that I guess. Maybe/hopefully that'll change in the coming weeks/months.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 29, 2016
  10. Thomas Bienert

    Thomas Bienert Member

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    No, but people keep on asking for it. Even there could be more worthy things done. That's what I pointed out

    Yes, and may it would be cool, if we get a roadmap. Something you can click on and see what they try to do this year ;)
     
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  11. Christian Göpfert

    Christian Göpfert Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    I assume that's what nate wanted to point out, that this is your evaluation of things. For you (and I'm sure a number of other users) those mp-related things are most important and should receive the most attention, but for other users it might be weather effects or the AI or that one track that they like most, or sth totally different.
    And S3 have to juggle all those wishes, trying to please everybodys wants and needs.
     
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  12. nate

    nate Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    Frankly, I truly dont know what could help the devs to crank out more features, or to improve the existing ones that we already have. Like you say, the chat in MP could be vastly improved. Completely agree there. I wish I had more answers as to how to help to get these things done faster, but I dont. It's sadly what we have to deal with as we move forward. However, in the past few years that I have paid close attention to RaceRoom, and in the past year+ that I have been a beta-tester, the game has continually moved forward since the old SimBin days. There have been lots of improvements, and a lot more will come. I may sound like a broken record here, but I have faith in Sector3 continuing development to further improve a game we all enjoy. :) I dont see them stopping anytime soon.

    Would it be nice to know what they have planned? Well, yes, that would be nice. However, the devs have done numerous interviews with Race Department, Inside Sim Racing, and others where they talk about things they want to add to the game, and ways to move it forward. This info is out there. But simply stating a deadline for a certain feature is an easy way to set themselves up for failure.

    I may sound a bit negative here but I just believe people need to look at the situation realistically. Not everything can get done quickly, and as Christian just pointed out above me, Sector3 needs to judge what they should work on so it can benefit a lot of people. And sometimes, there are some niche features that get pushed because they just dont improve the sim enough for a lot of people. Of course, if you go back over each of the recent patch notes, there are a ton of improvements. Some small, some big.

    I certainly didnt make that statement to mean that because some things would be nice to have, that they shouldnt be added at all. Other games incur this same sort of feedback too and frankly, you just cant please everyone. Some people are happy with the features as they are, and others want them fully fleshed out and super hardcore. Myself, I would like to see them more hardcore, but Im not losing sleep over what we have now, because I quite enjoy the game as it is now, flaws and all.

    Let me just say though, that passionate comments like yours are a nice benefit for this community. Even if I may disagree with some of what you say, or you disagree with some of my views. The sharing of ideas and ways to improve the game certainly does no harm. I may come off a bit abrasive though when people do little more than list a set of features they want in the game, and constantly complain when they arent added in a weeks time (and that was my initial impression of your earlier comment which is why I responded the way I did). That isnt productive and doesnt really help anyone. That doesnt happen a whole lot here, but it does occasionally. Although, certainly not as much as Race Dept. where nearly every thread is a massive wishlist :D

    Everyone here is here for the same reason. We enjoy RaceRoom and want to see it grow. Ideas on how to achieve that differs, but the discussion is welcome. I just wish I had more answers beyond my normal diatribe of stating why some things are more difficult or less feasible than others.

    Cheers
     
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  13. skswat

    skswat Well-Known Member

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    How the hell someone can play RaceRoom only Offline, when AI is so stupid and all behave almost identical? :D:D (I think this is issue in most racing games, not only R3E)
    I tried play Singleplayer and I exit from game very quickly. I think nowadays racing games are primary about Multiplayer!
    Single player is for time when you have internet outage :D. But sadly, you wont run RaceRoom without internet connection. :rolleyes:
     
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  14. Collin0021

    Collin0021 Member

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    I think Audi TT RS VLN, Mclaren 650s GT3 and ADAC GT MASTERS 2016!!:)
     
  15. AriBo

    AriBo Member

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    ... Maybe because of ping 0 in mp mod .. ?!?
     
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  16. skswat

    skswat Well-Known Member

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    I never had this problem in MP :)
     
  17. Don Rudi

    Don Rudi Well-Known Member

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    Me neither, but problems with a lot of brainless drivers instead. Therefore I prefer offline racing with an AI that is better than most people make believe. But that's just my personal opinion and MP on private servers certainly is more fun.
     
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  18. Diabolus

    Diabolus Member

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    I am fairly new to RRE and I really want to like this game but lack of proper 3 screen support is killing it for me. I really can't understand how a proper development team like SimBin/Sector3 doesn't care about this unlike its competitors like iRacing and Assetto Corsa.

    I hope that they will bump this issue up in their list soon.
     
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  19. hotak

    hotak New Member

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    Or simply because when i want to play online i only see free-content or GT3 servers with people in. I don't have enough time for a league, and casual multiplayer in R3E is quite bad IMHO (probably content fragmentation doesn't help with it), so i mainly race WTCC and historic content in SP witha AI, and for me R3E provides the best offline racing in modern sims.
     
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  20. Metalogic

    Metalogic Well-Known Member

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    I think you're right on the first two, but they've only recently released ADAC GT MASTERS 2015, so I can't see them releasing ADAC GT MASTERS 2016 until next year... Hopefully we'll be able to set rules, regulations and compulsory pitting for championship series in the main Raceroom game before then, though, as the ADAC GT Masters 2014 Experience is the last ADAC championship where you can have those set currently.
     
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