Morning fellow racers, This weekend I drove the cars of the Silhouette series for the very first time, and I really like this little buggers. But what I really dont like is the BoP of those cars! On the paper they all look pretty balanced: Canhard R51: 1050 kg / 400 PS Canhard R52: 1035 kg / 415 PS Cougar C14-1: 1000 kg / 420 PS Cougar C14-2: 1050 kg / 399 PS If you just take a look at those numbers, all of those fictional cars should be pretty much the same, the most powerful should be the C14-1. It has the most engine power and the least weight. BTW: Some minor bug at http://game.raceroom.com/store/cars/silhouette-series/canhard/canhard-r51 At the left the technical information states the R51 is a naturally aspired V6, the description states it is a V8. So myself and my racing colleques did some testing with all of those cars at the Salzburgring. Why the Salzburgring? Imho this pretty easy track is a nice testing ground. You have a long straight, where every car is able to reach its final speed, you have a tricky combination of corners at the end, a pretty slow chicane, an ultrafast right corner and a midspeed corner. So we put all of those cars on track, and I really have to congratulate the sound designers. The V6 (R51 / C14-2) sound is just amazing, though the Inline-4 (C14-1) and the Inline-5 (R52) could be a lill improved. But the C14-1 isnt the big shark in the tank, in fact it is the R52, which beats all other cars at this track by at least 1.5 seconds. It is a bit harder to control though, but as soon as you've figured out how to drive this car, you are able to drive in circles around the rest of this class. OK, that is a lill bit exaggerated, but I guess you'll get the point. Personally I thought the C14-2 would be the big fish in spite of his bad power loading, just because of its engine position. BTW again, is it really a supercharged V6, like the technical info states? And the handling of the C14-2 is really nice. It is incredible stable within corners, and I really thought this could compensate the lack of top speed compared to the R52. But it is just not enough. The R51, the C14-1 and the C14-2 are all within the same league, the R52 has just to much power to its disposal. Maybe someone could take a look into this. And if someone is checking this, please take a look at the tire wear too. I did 12 laps with the R52, which are nearly 51km and I didnt get the feeling there is tire wear, though I had some understeering and oversteering moments, which is never a life saver for tires. Edit: Something I forgot, luckily a pal reminded me: There is a problem with triple screens and at least two of those cars. Just cant remember which ones. But the R52 isnt affected.
OK, I've checked some Leaderboards. On some tracks, like Spa GP, all cars of this series are within the same range. On other tracks, like Porti GP, there is one dominant car, in this case the R51. In every series irl a concept has some advantages at one track and disadvantages at another track. But usually we're talking about tenths of a second, because all cars should be pretty much the same ... BoP. In my opinion, and that is just my personal opinion, the BoP is a lill off in this case. But if you guys think it is all fine, I'll lay down this topic to rest. But at least those minor bugs within the store should be fixed, so this thread wasnt nonsense completely.
Fixed the description now, thanks for reporting. It will be updated next time we deploy a patch. It's indeed a V6 like the side notes are stating. I believe the description still used some data from the first version of the cars. Regarding the BOP, we're not using Salzburgring for that as it's a track that clearly benefits power cars. We're focusing more on Oschersleben, Zandvoort and similar as they contain a bit of everything. FYI : Canhard R51 3.5L V6 normally aspirated 400hp / 422Nm 7500rpm redline Mid-engine 1050kg 46/54 weight distribution 2448mm wheelbase 80 Liter fuel tank. Enough for 1 hour+ Canhard R52 2.5L Inline-5 Turbo charged 415hp / 481Nm 7200rpm redline Front Engine 1035kg 50/50 weight distribution 2448mm wheelbase 80 Liter fuel tank. Enough for 1 hour+ Cougar C14-1 1.8L Inline-4 Turbo charged 420hp / 332Nm 9400rpm redline Front Engine 1000kg 48/52 weight distribution 2640mm wheelbase 80 Liter fuel tank. Enough for 1 hour+ Cougar C14-2 3.0L V6 Turbo charged 399hp / 403Nm 8000rpm redline Mid Engine 1050kg 44/56 weight distribution 2640mm wheelbase 80 Liter fuel tank. Enough for 1 hour+ Safe setups always, but they will wiggle if you push them. If you really want to them wiggle the tail, just shift their balance a little with springs and/or rollbars.
Thanks for your reply, pretty informative, and now I get why the C14-1 loses so much time at the Salzburgring. It clearly has the most power per kg, but the torque ... ouch. But i cant concur with At least not at the Salzburgring. The R52 needs around 2.05-2.10 litres per lap. Based on laptimes around 1:25 - and my pals and myself are a lill bit faster - a race over an hour are 42, 43 laps. So you need at least 86 litres. But that is just some nitpicking. And I really would appreciate if you'd take a look at the tire wear. We'll do a race over an hour this friday, so we'll know for sure how much wear there is. Right now we got the feeling there isnt that much compared to other cars. TC at 0% btw.
All good information here. We're currently running a Silhouette series at our league of 40 minute races with fuel and tyre wear set to normal. From my testing cars seemed generally well BOPed but this was indeed track dependant which isn't a bad thing imho. Fuel usage is around 55 litres but varies per track. I would imagine Salzburgring would very high usage considering the amount of time spent on full throttle. I raced the R51 at Brands on Sunday and my tyres were shot by race end (and I'm usually quite good with tyre wear). I probably need to look at my setup. While we're on the subject of tyres (and while we have the devs attention here ) are there any plans to update the tyre model? Tyre pressures/temperatures have such a huge influence on performance in RL it's a real shame the RRE doesn't have any way to implement this. This would go a long way towards making what is already a great racing game into a great racing sim imho.
Tire model and the way we do tires is an on-going development. Any new release benefits from what we have learned from the previous ones. Right now for example, (and of course at the same time as other things) we're working on yet another DTM improvement (with 2016 cars in mind), but we're also working on updating the Audi Sport TT cup car after getting some feedback from Hofbauer and vd Linde who had specific complaints about turn-in understeer in our TT cup. Most of the improvement will come from the tires themselves. We also have learned a lot on brakes and suspensions. Adjusting tire pressure though, that's something that might come, but for that we'll have to have a lot of time ahead of us. This ability to adjust pressure was something that was left out of the game from the early design stages, I presume to save time but also simplify the car setup in general. To allow tire pressure adjustment, we would have to review all our cars and make sure the tires react properly to various pressure levels, whether it's pure kph gain or tire wear. And we'd like to base it on solid data too. So all in all not a simple thing to add. Maaaaaaaaaaaaaybe we could allow that on specific cars in the future, though. That remains to be seen if we can add that in. But then why would you be allowed to change it on a Formula RaceRoom 1, and not in a DTM, people wouldn't understand and in the end we'd have to redo our cars anyway.
Thanks for the reply JF and apologies for taking this thread off topic btw. I understand that tyre modelling is a tremendous amount of work and that the returns are minimal when compared with things like new content (historic track pack ) and other features. Good to hear that it is ongoing and that pressure adjustment is not completely ruled out for future.
Nice. We've just finished a TT-Cup and understeering was really a PITA with this car. And if you are working at the brakes, we've encountered big problems with the FWD cars (Audi TT, WTCC 2015) in the last couple of weeks, if the balance is adjusted too much to the rear. Sooner or later the temperature of the rear brake crosses 500°C, and afterwards the temperature drops to 25°C, rear brake is completely gone. This usually happens after 35-40 minutes of racing, if your brake balance is below 60/40. Dont remember how I balanced the car at Zolder, but afair it was 56/44, and my rear brake died after ~33 minutes. A colleague, who lost its rear brake at Bathurst - reported here - used 65/35, and had no problems this time. Besides myself at least three other colleagues reported dead rear brakes at Zolder. First reports can be heard at the linked position within this video, if you understand german: youtu.be/Z8SfA8q1uus?t=2005 And No, it wasnt the the tires, telemetry of ProRacing Dashboard showed 25°C at the rear brakes.
Yes, this was being reported before. Is it a bug though? It's happening when the driver uses a brake balance very much to the rear. And the rear disk is 10mm thick. (front is 32mm) So when the player putting a lot of work on that small disk makes it heat, a lot. And in real life you should expect issues as well. But we understand this is viewed as a bug by many, I'm looking into fixing it now with Karsten and we'll reduce the wear of that disk.
@.OG Isaac: Sry, I'm german. That's something which is within Flesh and Blood. @J-F Chardon: I wouldnt call it a bug. The problem is, it happens without warning. If your tires are dying, you have a visual warning. If you are stressing your engine/gear box by bad shifting, you have a visual warning, damage to aero, visual warning. But there is nothing ingame to tell you something about your brakes. And btw, standard setup is always a brake balance around 56/44, so a Noob could expect the brakes would survive with those settings. To be honest, I wouldnt fix it. A warning if your brakes start to overheat would be great though. Edit: Something like that. Very fast rough picture. In this case the item would tell me, my front brakes are fine, but my rears are getting critical.
I agree, the thing is in real life you don't really have that. But it's true that in the game it's quite hard to feel. We'll fix and reduce the wear on that disk, because it feels a bit extreme right now.
Reducing the wear would only delay it, @J-F Chardon. Right now this problem happens after ~30+ minutes. If you reduce it, it will occur after maybe an hour. You are right, that is something which you dont have irl. But irl you're having a pit crew who is watching telemetry all the time and tells you there is something going on with your brake. Even my beloved Crew Chief tells me my brakes are cold. But as soon as he tells me, I've already noticed because they are gone.
Just to remind you. For sure the 14-2 isnt working with a triple screen setup, its all black in black.
Well, I need to continue this thread again. We've noticed a strange bug with the Silhouettes at the Salzburgring. Not sure if it's the combination, the car or the track, but I know there are some pretty good beta testers available, who will check this out. Throughout the entire week practicing for a race over one hour, we've encoutered this bug a couple of times: One driver is ghosted! Here is a picture from the prestart taken yesterday evening: The driver at Position #5 is present and at the track. Seconds later the lights go on and he isnt visible anymore! A video of this race is uploading right now, I'll edit this post later and include it. Edit: youtube.com/watch?v=JF22WrOby6s
More than three months later, nothing has happened, nothing changed. Not even an aswer if someone was able to reproduce this bug. Yesterday we had a quick practice race at the Salzburgring with the P2s, and the same happened again. One driver was visible thoughout practice, qualifying and prestart, but as soon as the race started he was a ghost. He was able to see all other cars, but noone was able to see him on track. Is it really that hard to fix this, so this track is usable again? Apperently it is.
We dont even have a patch for quite some time, you expect them to fix this for you? S3 is probably been occupied with something else in the past few months.
First, I know there wasnt a patch for quite some time, so no need to sound a lill bit offensive. Second, I'm not really annoyed over the fact, that this issue isnt fixed yet, though it was reported quite some time ago, and I'm still a customer who bought a track, which maybe can be used or maybe not, I'm a lill pissed that there isnt any reply from S3. The simple answer, Yeah, we were looking into this and we were able to reproduce this and it will be fixed with the next patch, would have been fine for me. But being completely silent isnt very customer-friendly, imho. And commenting the long overdue outstanding patch isnt worth my time right now. Maybe its time to give PeeCars a 2nd chance or switch to AC completely. And Yes, my mood isnt the best atm.