Steering wheel rotation

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Turtle Power, Nov 21, 2019.

  1. Turtle Power

    Turtle Power Well-Known Member

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    Wondering how many of you have the wheel rotation set to match in-game wheel rotation?
    For instance, I've noticed that some youtubers suggest using 900 rotation regardless. I found that if you don't match wheel rotation in your software with Raceroom default (per car) it will change the FFB and may not feel as it should.
    In my case, I have matching wheel rotation in simucube and Raceroom and switching between when necessary depending on the car.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
  2. BeefMcQueen

    BeefMcQueen Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    That may also depend on wich hardware you are using. Can only speak for Thrustmaster: raceroom alters the needed rotation for specific cars correctly every time you switch to another one. The softlock is spot on and you can also see that the corresponding value is set in control panel. CP has to be closed and reopened to show - doesn't change visibly on the fly if you just Alt+Tab to it. But the right value is used no matter if you have it open all the time or not.
    With a G27 I had some issues back then. If I remember right I got completely rid of that profiler wich seemed to set just global values for a specific game, but didn't allow the game to set car specific values. But that's a while ago and I believe that's not an issue anymore.
     
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    Last edited: Nov 21, 2019
  3. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    Same, I use thrustmaster and the game sets it all up as it should be. All cars feel spot on to me. Wouldn't want 900 degrees on a GT3 for example as you would have to take your hands off for hairpins.
     
  4. Turtle Power

    Turtle Power Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, once again it seems that direct drives require slightly different approach. Thanks
     
  5. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    Yep, not sure if it's their driver software not adapting or the game not talking to the driver software...
     
  6. Manfredk2

    Manfredk2 Member

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    Maybe one time RRE will support Simucube wheels, but i lost hope
     
  7. M-Bimmer

    M-Bimmer Well-Known Member

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    Usually adjust the wheel rotation on some cars (to be same as RF2 when same cars) or automatic and adjust the steering lock when needed.

    (Can’t imagine how those youtubers drive formula cars with 900 degrees :confused: :eek:)
     
  8. Turtle Power

    Turtle Power Well-Known Member

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    Not only forumal cars. As I mentioned before, seen many using 900 degrees for pretty much all cars. GT, F1 F2 F3 you name it.

    On a related note, every Raceroom car has its own default steering rotation from 360 - 900+ degrees. Direct drives with simucube, mmos etc...need to be switched manually in order to match in-game rotation and achieve linear function. Otherwise the FFB won't be as intended and could feel odd whilst Thrustmaster or other consumer products may have their own software that can switch automatically.
    In iRacing, I've noticed that you can set pretty much any degree of rotation as long as you calibrate properly and it can be done per car as well.
     
  9. M-Bimmer

    M-Bimmer Well-Known Member

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    don’t remind me, i sent a couple of friends of mine the rotation of all the cars in r3e :eek: Wish simcube will be supported soon.
    (Sorry off topic)
     
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  10. Cote Dazur

    Cote Dazur Member

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    Fanatec CSR Elite here, the wheel rotation changes from car to car automatically, so the feeling at the wheel is correct, but what does not match is what I am seeing in VR, the wheel animation does not match the movement of my fanatec wheel.
     
  11. William Richardson

    William Richardson Active Member

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    I at one time let the game decide what was needed. But one day I was talking to Jardier and asked him, he sets all the cars to 540. I pretty much only drive gt3/gt4 cars, so this approach worked out well for me also. I also turn off the animated driver no wheel no hands, as I find them distracting.
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2019
  12. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    I admit that this is the one thing that keeps me wondering. I manually now change all cars to 1080 rotation. That way I get the virtual wheel corresponbding to the hardware wheel (CSL Elite). If I turn the wheel further, not only the animation stopps after 180°, but also the turning of the tyres. Should mean: I get maximum steering input possible after 180°, if I want to vary that limit, I use steering lock.

    What I read here, is counter-intuitive to me. But okay, jedem Tierchen sein Pläsierchen. I get along well .

    I drive with VR exclusively, I am irritated if the virtual wheel is missing or moves not in synchonicity with my hands moving the hardware wheel. It irritates me a lot.

    If my way of habdling it is wrong, I would conclude that the way Raceroom handles correct setup in this regard, leaves a lot of room for making it better.

    In AC1 and ACC I did not had to care. You enter the rotation limit of your hardware wheel once, and you'Rre done. The sims do the rest automatically for each car. Thats how it should be, and thats how I handle it in RR. Any variaton of the steerign sensitivity in a given car, should be altered via steering lock. Else why havign that function then? Animated wheel should move in correspondence with hands' movement/hardware wheel rotating.

    Well, I do not expect we get this in time for christmas. :rolleyes:

    Have a good one everybody! And well deserved holidays for the team of S3! :)
     
  13. Alex Hodgkinson

    Alex Hodgkinson KW Studios Developer

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    All of the cars in RaceRoom use correct to life wheel rotation and steering angles by default, and that's how I tune them. So I can't guarantee the experience is as intended if you deviate from that.

    Just a pointer; if you find yourself struggling with snap-back oversteer the chances are you've got the steering ratio set too low which will make it hard to be precise when on the limit.
     
  14. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    Maybe I misunderstand it then. But to me it makes no sense if my wheel has a 1080 rotation, why I should dial in, or leave a value dialed it, deviating from that?

    Its very differently done in AC1, with its many different cars and various car wheel angles. You dial in the correct rotation of your hardware wheel - and the sim automatically calculates, for the chosen car, the effective rotating angle possible. The animation also gets synchronised to the hardware input. You cannot even mess up anything there as long as you do not dial in a wrong value for your hardware rotation angle. For most people, that is either 900, or 1080. Any of these two, and you are done with the whole matter. Forever.

    It gets even more confusing in Raceroom with the related options in the game's main menu, two more options there. I do not have the impression that it all works together for a a really consistent, synchronised experience, sorry. There I can switch the selector to manually dialing in the animation angle - but when I dial in 720 or 1080, it does not matter, the wheel animation stays at 360 anyway.

    Raceroom handles this needlessly complex and confusing for the user. I think that since long time, however. The result seems to be always inconsistent, no matter what you do.

    Anyway, in VR, animation corresponding to hand movement, is a must, imo. I am as good as invunerable to VR sickeness - as long as frame sare either 90-88 or 45 ASW and as long as my virtual alter ego'S body does not violate the movement I do with my real arms and hands, may it be controllers or wheel. If that is the case, if my brain "sees" a violation between what the eyes claim the body is doing and the brain knows it is doping - tHEN I turn ill after some minutes, slowly, like the VR motion sickness can strike people not used to VR at all.

    Snap back oversteer, as you called it, I did not mention and is no complaint of mine. It does not strike me. Maybe I have simply adapted to the way my steering is set up, or the steering nevertheless works how it should and we talk en passant here... :)
     
  15. TDIdriving

    TDIdriving Member

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    Dear Alex,
    yesterday in the small Update there is a big advantage for accuforce users. Before i had 10 profiles with 900,720,540...DOR.

    Today i make a NEW Profile and it matches every car with the right DOR if i set 1080 DOR in simcommander Software. thats great. Now i need only one Profile. Thanks very much and the wheel feels a little bit stronger. Can you confirm this. I read nothing about the change.
    By and great evening
     
  16. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    Because race cars do not use 1080 degrees of rotation. Do you really want to be spinning the wheel like you're driving a truck?

    Re hand/arm animation I do believe it is limited at the moment. However, in normal driving, if you have correct wheel rotation set it should t be a problem since rarely if ever do you need to take your hands off the wheel anyway
     
  17. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    Heck I know that. My issue is that raceroom makes setting this up and having the three elements of virtual simcar beviour, hardware wheel input, and animation of virtual wheel such a complicaterd issue like no other sim I know, and then even deliver inconsistent results. It snot as if the limited arms animation is a new thing, it is an issue since as long as I know Raceroom: five years.

    And it even makes no sense to have a value input in main menu for setting the animated rotation limit, if the animation cannot even reach to the values you set there.

    Here is the deal: you connect your hardware wheel and make sure once and for all time the sim recognises its rotation angle correctly. And then player should NEVER need to to cut it again, or have anythign to do with that again. The individual car he chooses to play, should automatically show its inherent rotation limit for its wheel, and the animation should correspond to that, and it should also correspond with the hardware input. Hardware turns 90°, animation moves 90°, car sim calczuatres pohysics with 90°. And here is the pro9boem. It does not work this way. One of these three is always wrong.

    Look at how it is done in AC and ACC. Simple. Functional. Automatically. Thats how it must be done. So to set up the hardware once, and then never care again. Sim effect, hardware input, animation - all three correspond with each other correctly. No inconsitencies. where the virtual car has stronger or weaker steerign sensitivity, the sim handles the needed change automatically in the background - without the player needing to monitor and control it.

    BTW, some of the older cars, as I tried them in the Porsche packs, if I would have left steering uncorrected, I could have turned my wheel to full 540° to one side (animatipon stops at 180°), and still I would not have managed to get the car around even medium-wide turns. turning radii wider than a normal family car? I do not believe that.

    Anyway, I will continue to drive it with wheel setups that may or may not be broken but that get the playing done - since 5 years. Whwere I need to alter rotation limit, at Macau that is, I use the steerign lock, as far as my tehcncial understanding goes (not very far I admit) that is what this thing is there for in reality. I just say that this is an open issue in Raceroom where the sim can - and finally should - improve. I have not counted how often in these years newcomers here or in other forums have asked the same questions about the steering time and again, but it were quite some times, really. The way Raceroom adresses this thing on the tehcnical level, is anything but-self-explanatory, or intuitive, and obviously you can never get a result were animation, simulated effect, and hardware input indeed all work flawlessly, one of these values at least is always messed up.

    And as I said, in VR I need a correctly displaying wheel animation, else it gets confusing to my eyes and brain.
     
  18. majuh

    majuh Well-Known Member

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    You need to disable the driver animations in the settings for more than 360° of wheel rotation. When you do that, everything should work correctly out of the box. The animation rotation limit does make sense when you use a wheel with less than 360° of wheel rotation.
     
  19. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    The sim does all that automatically. All cars have their rotation correct from real cars. You don't need to do anything.

    Hand animation is the only thing that is limited.
     
  20. rustyboat

    rustyboat New Member

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    1st: new to Sim Racing! Had initial animation problem- virtual wheel ingame rotation not matching Logitech's g923 wheel rotation. Got them to match up by resetting "steering sensitivity" slider to whatever % matched both wheels. Compared them ingame while in prerace pit. Not sure where slider is in car seup options but found while using search. Simple solution but FFB wheel force is unusually disruptive while turning (both before & after wheel matchup). On to the 2nd problem. Good racing!!