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Struggling with the 911 GT3 R (2019)

Discussion in 'Knowledge Base' started by Agathos_Daemon, Jun 12, 2021.

  1. Agathos_Daemon

    Agathos_Daemon New Member

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    Hi folks,

    i would appreciate some advice for the 911GT3R (2019) cause i am really struggling with the car. I bough it, cause i really like the look and the sound.

    I am fairly new to sim racing and R3E, so i am not really fast. To give an idea, my best lap on Suzuka when it was in ranked was ~ 2:03:9is with race pace usually in the 2:04:xxx bracket.

    Now this week i tried Brno with the Porsche and i felt really slow. With the default setup for the 911 with fuel reduced to 32l i only manage high 2:05s or low 2:06s.

    Just out of interested i tested Brno with the M6 GT3 and was suprised that - again default setup with 32l - i immediatly managed a low 2:04, hit 2:04:00 the 2nd lap and could keep easily keep a low 2:04 pace over around 6 laps. I found that really astonishing as i only drove the M6 once before. Now a little curious i used the current ADAC 2020 event to compare the C7 GT3 to the 911. I drove some laps on Zandvoort with the 911, looked for the time and than swapped to the vette. And immediatly beat my best 911 lap by around 2 seconds.

    The most interesting thing in all this is, that for me driving the 911 almost always feels like balancing an egg on the back side of a spoon, while driving the M6 or C7 in comparision felt like carrying that egg nice and easy with the front side of spoon. Yes you can loose the egg, but it takes much more effort to do so.

    Now i am wondering how to improve with the 911. I know it needs a different driving style, due to its rear engine and light front. But i wonder if there are other areas, like issues with the 911s default setup that might add up to my struggling and that are not present with cars like the M6 or C7.
     
  2. Flybarless

    Flybarless Member

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    After my first 3 Laps in Brno at all, coincidentally with the 911GT3 2019 with standard Setup and 30l fuel ends in a low 2:04.
    The Car is not the Problem;-)...
     
  3. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    That's kinda Captain Obvious reply... The guy is looking for tips and you simply say the car is fine? Of course it's possible to drive it much faster than he does (top leaderboard times are 2:00,5). The questions is - what should he do to improve his laptimes?
     
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    Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
  4. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    I have limited experience with setups and very limited experience with the 911 R, but this is what I would look at and try to fix:
    If you have a lot of oversteer try making the rear softer. If you're losing it particularly at a corner entry, move your brake balance to the front and increase "engine braking reduction" (the higher the value, the higher the revs are when you don't apply gas - this means less engine braking but more stable rear).

    The track itself has a character, it has a lot of long sweeping corners, so trail braking can win you a lot of time. It has three straights all of which are after such corners, so you have to sacrifice your exit from a previous corner to maximise your speed coming up to these straights.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2021
  5. Agathos_Daemon

    Agathos_Daemon New Member

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    Thanks Maskerader,

    this morning i used the leaderboard to see how the current best (2:00:4xx) and someone around 2:02:xxx drive around and which line they use. Interestingly my line is almost spot on both, so from that side it seems i am atleast on a proper line and not to far off.

    "Chasing" the fastest ghost around i managed to push my time down to a 2:03:5xx.

    My trailbraking might not be the most consistent as with the G29s default brake pedal (version with the rubber pad) i find it quite difficult to get a good braking feel especially when just a tiny amount is needed. Same with the throttle as i find the spring there also giving more or less no feedback whatsoever when i just need a tiny bit of throttle to hold the speed steady.

    Very interesting in both challenges i could clearly see where i lose the majority of time on Brno. I am not sure if the ghost shows the proper attitude of the other guy, but to me it seems that at those points (accel out of turn#4, accel out turn #9, accel out #12) i suffer from understeer while they don't. If i match their speed in those turns, front tyres squick and i can't match there turn, if i match their turn, i have to sacrifice a few kph but than get around and out of that turn slower. If i try to "force" the car to match them, it gets unstable and i usually lose the rear.

    I should also add that i did all the laps in the 911, the M6 and C7 with TC preset #4.
     
  6. Vale

    Vale Well-Known Member

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    I don´t have the track or car on RRE but from what I can see a good lap is 1m59 dead and it would seem to be better suited to the AMG Evo in terms of car balance and the M6 / C7 for non ADAC cars as no 911 driver is under 2m00. In this case, I´d be inclined to use another car than the 911 as you can´t make up for a car deficit.

    If you are getting corner exit understeer IN THE SAME CAR then try less TC% or rear wing as the first steps before moving on to softer front roll bar and more front toe in.
     
  7. Zziggy

    Zziggy Well-Known Member

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    Brno requires quite a high traction control level. So you could as well to compensate the resulting understeering tendencies lower the preload to 100. But still the 911 just doesn´t simply feel at home at this track. TC3 I drive (time 2:01,8; best time so far 2:01,3 in an R8 Evo).
     
  8. Alex Hodgkinson

    Alex Hodgkinson Sector3 Developer

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    If you have it, I'd advise practising with the Porsche GT3 Cup Deutschland. It has the same quirks as the GT3-spec car but without the downforce or driver aids, so it gives the driver more clues about what's going off in terms of mechanical grip.

    Get on top of that car and you'll click with the GT3-R too.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. Zziggy

    Zziggy Well-Known Member

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    Just some amateur observations: I think the problem with the 911 GT3 R (2019) is that the front end, by design (rear motor, little weight on front), is very unresponsive. And Brno is a track that has quite a lot long radius corners.
    While in other cars, especially with front motor, you can use the throttle to make the car turn better, the 911 in this situation will just understeer off the ideal line. Contrarily (I hope this is an english word :)) you have to lift off to help turn in better. You have to be very patient, keep the nose down by half-throttling through the long corners and only then gently apply the throttle.
    I hope this helps.

    Here is an interesting german article about how with a second flap at the front, for Nordschleife 2021 the handling was improved. I hope it still makes sense in english translation: https://www.motorsport-total.com/24...waffe-am-nuerburgring-der-doppelflic-21060606
     
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2021
  10. rad

    rad Well-Known Member

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    It's all about learning to balance the car with throttle and brake pedals. You use them to steer it in corner as much as you use wheel. Porsches are really peculiar in that regard. During braking you modulate the brake pedal to control oversteer. When you feel that rear is coming a bit too loose, you lift pedal a little, do a correction, sometimes even apply a little throttle (but really a little) to stabilise it, and then go back to normal trail braking. On exit you need to apply throttle in one, smooth curve. If you find yourself in a position that you need to lift a little, you loose massive amounts of time, especially compared to other cars. It sometimes is hard to find that perfect point where you can start accelerating.
     
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  11. Agathos_Daemon

    Agathos_Daemon New Member

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    @rad In the meantime i assume that just having default G29 pedals contributes to my struggle with the Porsche. The resolution and the smoothness of the input is not that great. In more forgiving chassis this only leads to mild disturbances, while in the 911 those things seem to unbalance the car way stronger and effect handling.