That's rip-off ! Sector3/Raceroom please let the loyal and long-term customers complete packs again!

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Captain Slow, Nov 30, 2017.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. pixeljetstream

    pixeljetstream Well-Known Member Beta tester

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2015
    Ratings:
    +407 / 0 / -0
    Think so as well, however at least feedback like this is visible to raceroom as well.

    Ultimately I don't think a lot will change. You could argue that people either have money and go for it, or they don't and then at least you are given choices like buying the car alone, waiting for sales, using the vrp discounting scheme at raceroom (which is a bit like a season-pass, as you invest money upfront).

    There is really not that much other payment models, we could either add subscription like iracing (which despite that is still expensive content wise), or stricter DLCs like the larger games. However raceroom doesn't have the mass reach like console titles have, so relatively speaking it cannot be as cheap, as the money has to come from less people. I would also argue for the content value we get with the licenses etc. you cannot compare it to something like AMS which is flatly too inexpensive for what it delivers hehe, but I always have the feeling that team has a lot of folks who don't do this as their sole income.

    Now could the game be bigger to subsidize things more and lower the cost for individual, yes maybe, but we haven't seen the publisher poor money heavily into this project to grow its reach. On the plus side, there is now good deals for newcomers to get a lot of content. Something the community has been asking for a lot, and we saw an improvement on that front. And maybe the online ranking, esports initiatives will see a bigger splash in the future. But in the end, you need more paying players to get the individual costs down.

    btw this is not defending the choices the raceroom publisher has made in the past, the big success of an independent newcomer like AC shows that clearly things could have been different for raceroom/s3s as well. But that's not the situation at hand.
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  2. .OG Isaac

    .OG Isaac Well-Known Member Beta tester

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2015
    Ratings:
    +173 / 0 / -0
    another businessmodel thread ayyyy

    It sure sucks but I get my hours worth from the money I spend on the new content. To me it's worth it, maybe it isn't to you.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. nate

    nate Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2015
    Ratings:
    +874 / 0 / -0
    Yeah, Im not too sure how much authority over pricing Sector3 actually has.

    Im also not too sure how much of this forum the people from RaceRoom AG actually read.

    Perhaps use this link to raise your pricing concerns, as I believe this goes straight to RaceRoom, who are more likely in charge of pricing: http://www.raceroom.com/en/support/

    Also, dont forget that all of this content is optional dlc, and you do not need it to play the game. All you need is a single car and you can compete against everything else in the class. There is also the whole business model differences since RR is a free to play game, and therefore has to make up the cost of entry over a lot of content purchases.
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
    • Informative Informative x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Kollo

    Kollo Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Ratings:
    +39 / 0 / -0
    It is a good advice that you actually have to buy only your favorite car to play this game. I am certain that Sector3 appreciate that you are telling us not to buy content that we would not use frequently.
     
  5. Eisprinzessin

    Eisprinzessin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2015
    Ratings:
    +315 / 0 / -0
    If you dont want it, dont buy it. Its a easy rule.

    I bought the Vette. Why not? I like here and she has nothing to do with further content i bought. BMW dont give me the ne M6 gratis, just because i bought a 323i a couple of years ago.
     
    • Dislike Dislike x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. Sean Kenney

    Sean Kenney Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2015
    Ratings:
    +316 / 0 / -0

    Agree....their loss though.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
  7. Kollo

    Kollo Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Ratings:
    +39 / 0 / -0
    It is not ok to add new content to old packs.

    If we would still have a new ADAC Pack every year then we would also have the new GT3 Content in a new pack every year.

    And indeed i don't buy what i don't want but the reason why i don't want something is not always that i doesn't like it. Pricing policy is a huge factor for my personal decision to buy something.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
  8. XR Freestyler

    XR Freestyler Member

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2017
    Ratings:
    +11 / 0 / -0
    If you dont want to pay for content, there will be no more content in future. S3 have to pay there employees for their work.

    Stupid discussion with every content release...
     
    • Disagree Disagree x 6
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Love it! Love it! x 1
  9. Kollo

    Kollo Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2015
    Ratings:
    +39 / 0 / -0
    It is not about to get things for free. It is about fair pricing. If customers who already own everything in this Sim are treated worse than customers who spent at best a few €, $... for a few cars and tracks then there is something very wrong.

    It also tells new customers to buy only what they really need. The result would be a much lower profit.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  10. schielchen

    schielchen Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2015
    Ratings:
    +76 / 0 / -0
    When december is over, those who have bought all new cars (6) with one livery, they will have spend almost half of what a decent, new and complete game costs. For us, who have almost everything (it used to be everything) the game offers there are two things we do not look forward to
    -the six cars will be offered at a lowered price at some time
    -all discount options besides special offers (which are useless for us) will be denied (no more packs at all)
    Putting this on the table is not stupid.
    Saying it is stupid is stupid.
    Getting more people in here by offering a cheap entrance is exactly what must be done. We agree on that, don't we.
    But making the most loyal members pay the most is at least questionable.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  11. jayblue

    jayblue Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2015
    Ratings:
    +38 / 0 / -0
    I actually went back through all my R3E purchases last week to see how much I have spent on the game thus far. it came out at around £120. And I don't own all the content! I have used the content I own quite a lot and had over 230 in game hours for that so its not bad value.

    I would be lying if I said I think the business model is a good one however. I think that once a player buys the packs they are paying too much to add any newly released content. As a result I won't be purchasing any of the new GT3 cars.
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Montag911

    Montag911 Guest

    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0
    Sector 3 should only work on its pricing policy and lower the price slightly.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Disagree Disagree x 1
  13. David Peres

    David Peres Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 5, 2017
    Ratings:
    +96 / 0 / -0
    Exactly!

    The fact that some people actually defend this ass backwards business model from hell is absolutely bonkers to me. Are people actually thinking about how this works? It doesn't take a PHD in economics to realize it makes no sense and it's actually hurting their business. Just look at the player stats... this sim will never get the success it deserves with a business model like this. Not even Porsche or multiplayer ranking or whatever will change that.

    The typical argument of "blah blah you just want free stuff something something they need to make money" gets my eyes rolling out of their sockets... which hurts a little bit. Talk about missing the point.
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
  14. MustangSVT

    MustangSVT Member

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2017
    Ratings:
    +5 / 0 / -0
    Yeah this is the part I don't understand, people defending this practice. I would understand maybe Sector3/RaceRoom defending the practice because they are just in it for the money and maybe they don't care about its customers, but how can people defend this type of practice?

    Here is another explanation perhaps in terms people understand. Let us say that I am a customer that purchases Sid Meier Civilization VI (the newest one), maybe I buy it full price or sale, doesn't matter, I spent $50 money on it let's say. They come out with a bunch of new expansions, and they also come out with a "Game of the Year Edition". What might happen in this scenario is that I can either A) purchase all the expansions for another $60, or B) purchase the "Game of the Year Edition" (which includes all expansions) for $50. If this scenario sounds familiar to you, that is because this type of practice does happen sometimes, especially games like Fallout or Elder Scrolls or Civilization that have a lot of DLC content. As an older customer, it makes more sense for me to purchase the game of the year edition in this scenario. Now imagine if the scenario was such that Steam storefront forced me to make a brand new Steam account for me to buy the GOTY edition. That is what is happening here with RaceRoom, I will be soon enough forced to just make a new account and get all of the content at discount. I don't have much to lose other than the hassle of dealing with it.

    You do not see this kind of practice with other racing games. When Assetto Corsa releases a new DLC pack, they don't force existing customers to purchase the new content separately at full price, they allow existing and new customers to purchase the "new DLC pack".

    So what needs to happen here? RaceRoom either needs to allow us to purchase the packs again, or at least create brand new packs to allow us to buy everything together at the same discount as everyone else. Those of us affected by this in this thread are not saying there should be a handout or free stuff, we are simply asking for fairness. Most games create a brand new pack/bundle for new content, they don't make it part of old packs and then tell their existing customers "too bad, you already bought this pack, you have to buy each DLC separately at full individual price, even though we just released 5 pieces of content at once".
     
    • Agree Agree x 5
    • Like Like x 1
    Last edited: Dec 1, 2017
  15. Sean Kenney

    Sean Kenney Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2015
    Ratings:
    +316 / 0 / -0
    I have spent over $200 on content, so saying the devs need to get paid...they did, by the hardcore players who have been playing for 3 years. Also spending the money, although high, has been totally worth it. Great game, albeit slow slow slow at implementing standard features.

    I am not looking for anything free, I am looking for some sort of loyalty, or whatever you want to call it, discount to offset the continual cost. I would think 20% would be fair. In the end they would probably make more money with this in place. Instead people will just wait for sales... if inclined to buy a car at all. I only buy if I need to something for a league.

    I have more than enough money as well. Not that it matters, but I am not some college kid with limited free cash flow.

    ...waits for iRacing comparrison....
     
    • Agree Agree x 7
  16. Captain Slow

    Captain Slow Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0
    and still no official statement from sector3 or raceroom - come one guys!

    i spend over more than 200eur in content in last years for raceroom. all i want is to buy the packs again. if i try to buy the gt3 or premium pack again in the ingame store today, i can see the reduced price in vrp for completing the missing content in the packs! the only thing is that it is actually forbidden to buy the packs again - and this is only a business policy restriction.

    to change that will be a fair price (which I would like to pay with pleasure) and a really fair gesture for the loyal long-term raceroom customers!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. kcn4000

    kcn4000 New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2017
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0
    The pricing system seems ridiculous. I love this game and want the developers to get paid but the best thing they could do is make this game more accessible for new players any time rather than just on black Friday. This would attract many new racers and broaden the base. Fair pricing would keep more people interested and excited for new content and would likely net Raceroom and Sector 3 more profit than having a smaller number of people who are willing to pay the extreme price for new content.
     
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Gopher04

    Gopher04 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2015
    Ratings:
    +236 / 0 / -0
    Don't you luv people who try to to use blackmail..so many DH's in life, seriously @Captain Slow 2 posts and you try the blackmail card..do us a favour and make a quick exit..
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Dislike Dislike x 3
    • Love it! Love it! x 2
    • Winner Winner x 1
  19. Captain Slow

    Captain Slow Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    stupid lemming, +1 for my personal ignore list.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
  20. Sdemonnz

    Sdemonnz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2016
    Ratings:
    +83 / 0 / -0
    So many sides to this argument - yes i'm a long-time supporter of Raceroom - think I grabbed the "game" (more of a demo back then) when it first came out, and I do own all the content - I buy it relatively soon after release, and I'll be honest theres some stuff that I haven't/don't re-visit too often! Before we even start here - lets just say I'm NOT affiliated with Raceroom or Sector3 in anyway shape or form apart from being a user of the Raceroom product

    Do I feel a little cheated that as a long-time supporter of Raceroom, I don't get a "special cut -rate" - well yes - the latest GT3 cars (yep I got em' and because I'm a hoarder, I had to grab all the liveries too o_O) cost me close to NZ$30!! I did frown at that cost and almost backed out of the purchase. Now I could have just got one livery of each car to save a little - but I stand by Sector3 and the hard work they put into something that I enjoy - So those few extra dollars head their way to help further development of the game (well hopefully that where it goes and not into a beer-fund :eek:)

    Some form of a cut for "premium" pack owners would be appreciated I guess for those who have stood by or invested a lot of dollars into the game already - or a season pass type scenario. BUT then we would have another issue with a Season Pass setup - as we have seen with Sector3 (no did-respect intended here), content is announced and it's often delayed - which could/would be a nightmare and frustrating for all involved (probably get waaay more negative feedback than the current pricing structure!!!)

    I'm aware from talking to a few fellow racers that most of the content is out of the control of Sector3 - the "Raceroom" owners, Manufacturers, team owners, sponsors all have input to the very content that Sector3 work so hard to bring us in it's detailed glory..... and why shouldn't they have a say - it's THEIR product in reality - the virtual product should be up the THEIR standards....

    Anyway - back to the pricing structure and the main reason I posted, I look at whats involved with the release of content, and decide that my $10 (or whatever) is a grain of sand compared to what Raceroom/Sector3 probably puts into development. lets take a look
    - Raceroom as an entity is out to make a profit! No use "selling" something that is running at a loss
    - Sector3 is a small studio as we all know - but employees need to be paid wages :eek: - or we get nothing!
    - Manufacturers, well they will want dollars for usage/likeness of their Property
    - Teams, see manufacturers
    - Sponsors, see manufacturers
    - technology upgrades, lets not forget this - gaming is always progressing (think VR/new wheels/higher spec PC's etc) Sector3 needs to keep up to date with the latest - i'm sure they invest "some" dollars here - some may be gifted by manufacturers for inclusion, I really don't know on this one...
    - Promotion of Raceroom as a whole

    Add to this the hard hours of negotiating contracts/legalities, travelling to meet potential clients etc etc and I'm guessing that our "virtual" race car would come pretty close in costing (or maybe even more) to buying one of its real-life counterparts! (and I certainly cant afford one of them:()

    Yes we can rant about the pricing (well it seems that people on here rant about every little detail :rolleyes:) But if it's put into context - it's not actually that bad - if it gives YOU the player hours of enjoyment!

    Chris
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.