Well I've seen a few video of the "new AI" and Zandvoort (very nicely done I've to admit it.. looks very close to iRacing) and I've pretty much noticed that is still the same terrible AI... @baronesbc awesome driving as usual man... ;-) They're still obstacles on the road. ...and talking to a friend of mine he said that he tried the AI on a track and it's 4 seconds slower than it was originally (and was terrible back then). He wanted to make a video of it but it would have been terrible to show this situation at this time ONE YEAR after. So I don't know, I don't feel I'll reinstall the game, as I'm pretty satisfy with what I have now. To re-phrase mrSweSin, to each his own and liking doesn't mean fact (or being absolute right)
I know, it is difficult to say AC fans, that game can be seen from another, a little more critical angle, because in some occassions they take it as a personal attack, but watch this video. Before you say, "OK, it is known AC hater Hexagramme again," just see, even on AC official forum comments are at some normal level http://www.assettocorsa.net/forum/index.php?threads/v1-2-1-ai-issues-galore.25525/ and also before anybody accuses me ... something, it is not my view to this game, I just did copy/paste from elsewhere and yes, I own all Kunos games, also AC
Getting CrewChief to work with other sims wouldn't be particularly hard, as long as the game writes a broadly similar chunk of data to a shared memory location. I'd have to decouple my events & logic from the shared memory data (which I should do anyway - add some simple translation layer to convert the stuff the game creates into stuff my app operates on). Some of the events would need tweaking or might be unusable if the data differ substantially from the data R3E writes. But technically it would be achievable I think. But there are a couple of issues (aren't there always?). First, my time's pretty limited and I'm using all my nerd-time making the R3E version do what I want it to do. There's none left for another version. The biggest issue is whether I actually want to make it work with other sims. It sounds weird but I feel a lot of loyalty to S3 here, not just because R3E is (IMO) really rather awesome. While the app is my own work, part of it started from one of their samples. The app has grown to where it is thanks to their support, generosity, and willingness to work with me to accommodate my requests for extra data. I've felt compelled to make Crew Chief as good as it can be partly because I want R3E to have something cool that other sims don't have. And I don't have AC. And the videos of the appalling AI make me dislike it. Which I know is weird Tell you what... When I get a spare day to fiddle (will be a few weeks away I think) I'll do the ground work to decouple the events from the R3E data and make it a bit more agnostic about what's in the data and what's not. It won't make it work with AC, but at least it'll make it theoretically compatible. Then, as it's open source and the code, VS2013 project, and build scripts are on GitHub, some other enterprising AC owner can take up the challenge. Doing this will even give me an excuse to do a long-overdue code cleanup
Perfect example of great marketing: Make people buy shit, so they will be satisfied and grateful when you replace that turd with a slightly smaller, less stinky one. Still a pile of crap, but it doesn't smell as vomit-inducingly digusting anymore, so people yell hail. AC drives great, no arguing that, but that's all there is about it I'm afraid. A shiny physics tech demo, which it was right from its beginnings and, from the looks of it, always will stay, which is a pitty.
I dont know what's with Hexagramme's copy of AC. Considering that he is a known AC hater, rfactor fanboy, I aint going to believe whatever he posts. It is a biased source to begin with, there are ways that you can deliberately screw up the AI to make it look bad. The AI pathing is easily moddable with the ingame app. I had put in about 8 hours since the update with multiple cars ranges from road cars to GT on around a dozen of tracks. I had not encountered this sort of AI behavior at all. The AI generally behaves decently. In patch 1.2, the AI does overtake quite well and cleanly in most cases. They can also handle multi class decently well too, unlike previously where the Zonda R AI get stuck behind a Fiat 500 AI despite there are plenty of room to overtake. Also, the AI drives more realistically, I had seen cases that the AI trying to regain grip after flooring out a corner. It is not bad now, for me, the AI is finally worth racing with now in AC. My problem with it are the AI occasionally bumps into my car at corners and they have a higher tendency of running off track after some corners. This issue occurs much more often in mod tracks. They cant really defend their position well as they are too slow and they still cant pit at all. Also, they are still a little too passive at times. I got pit off the road a few times or saw AI had a bit of contact, none of them were as bad as the ones in Hexagramme's video. AC's AI is not perfect, at least for me, it is a massive improvement over the conga line loving passive AI in 1.1. It is still a work in progress so I do expect improvements in the future. In comparison to R3E AI, i think R3E still has better AI over AC. R3E AI just drives better, competes better and defends better. Some tracks like Macau still has AI issues but in general, R3E has a damn good AI, IMO. It is still the only game that I could trust the AI to drive beside it without seeing the AI ramming me. A great racing AI isnt made in the span of months, it can take years to implement a good AI. As long as the AI patching continues for AC(or it can be R3E, pCARS or GSCE), I am fine with it. I do not subscribe to the whole "Game A is the only game I should worship while belittle others" mentality. Every game has it's own unique content and different handling interpretation that made it interesting to try out other games.
I'll echo Cheeseman's post. I've just not seen the issues in that video pop up into the 50 or so races I've run since the patch. Call me a fanboy or an apologist, but I'd think if the AI issues were that bad, I'd have seen them by now. I flat out didn't like AC until this patch as I've posted here and elsewhere but now I'm really enjoying it.
Imho the only real improvement is that they now don't hit you every time under braking as was before (in origin, a year and a half ago). the first AI of AC had many defects, but at least it gave the idea of a race. it was not so bad to be the first time: it's the Mugello event with Bmw E30 Gra in the first release of the AI, at alien difficulty, using hard tires and default setup. I did the same event using the same conditions in the 1.2, the AI is 4-5 seconds slower now (they run in 2:10!).... they were slow, and now they are very very slow.. so, can you define it an improvement?
I am the last to say the AI in 1.2 is perfect, it is not. But before, there was a major problem with the AI categorically refusing to overtake a much slower car, ever. You could even stop on track - and see the AI stopping behind you. Stefano said that was due to anti-collision algorithms getting in the way with cars ahead. This lead to what I called car-train forming: an Abarth 500 collecting Ferraris, Zondas and who knows what in high numbers, and pulling them like a locomotive pulling a line of waggons. Stefano said that these algorithms now are switched to off as long as the car in front does not have a foot on the brake pedal. I assume there is more subtlety to it, but take this as the general idea for the main chnage there is. And this makes a BIG, a VERY BIG difference in 9 out of 10 cases now, if not more. If you read the links I set up in the beginning, you can read that I have not had a single case, NOT A SINGLE CASE, where the AI refused any attempts to overtake during a whole lap. It sometimes takes its time, as I described in those links, and waits for the long straight at the pitbox, for example. But I stick to it: in 9 out of 10 cases, the AI goes after it now. I still wait to see a single case of when the AI refuses to even try overtaking for a whole lap. So the Gordian knot has been cut into halves, no doubt on that. With this major problem understood and solved, they now need to finetune it further. The AI brakes too early in many turns, is too slow in too many turns, and thus ruins chances for overtaking where the chance indeed should be substantial, and solid. This is about finetuning the braking behaviour, and the speed the AI goes at in turns, it often brakes too carefully, and too early when approaching a turn. I also said in the AC forums, that with most car classes working fine, car class/model still influences the way the AI system materialises for the better - or worse. Superfast cars with high acceleration and potentially instable attitude seem to be more problematic, than lets say ordinary street cars. The problem is that different speed and acceleration nevertheless needs to be adapted by the same AI system controlling it, and even for the AI, reaction times are a factor, like for humans. I for example said in the AC forums that I saw the AI suffering in reliability with the superfast Lotus Exos. On the other hand, with GT86, Abarth500 and Mitos, I have seen excellent skin-to-skin racing now, repeatedly, three wide, a constant give and take, overtaking and getting re-overtaken. The same is true in R3E, and any other racing sim. The AI system in place works better with some of the sims cars, and worse with other cars of the sim. Track characteristics also come into play. So: there is room for further improvement, no doubt, but there also has been a major breakthrough with already significant and very visible improvements - ALSO NO DOUBT on that. To claim that the AI post 1.2 is the same stupid and incapable as pre-12 means the person claiming that does not know what he or she is talking of and has not taken the needed observations. I told Kunos team myself they need to dig on with finetuning, and that other sims still are ahead with their AI. But the AI of post-1.2 AC is significantly better than that that there was since late summer last year or so. You can see the AI doing races now, and overtaking where it sees a slid chance to do so. Whether the AI standards to judge that, and to judge braking behaviour, are on the same level already than the judgement of human players, not mention alien drivers, is something different. But I do not make alien drivers and pros the standard that the AI should aim at, anyway. The majority of solid drivers that can manage to log their laps without crashing and without ramming, are the majority to meet: and to make these the standard by which to judge an AI seem to be more reasonable a goal, at last in my understanding. Without going into car setups (no interest to care for that), I need to reduce the aI to around 92-95% anyway to be able to keep up with the top third of the aI drivers. And if that is what I get from an AI, then that is more than just "good enough" for my needs: it is solid a standard. More I never was allowed to ask of any AI in the past 20 years anyway. So: a major obstacle with AC's AI has been put out of the way, already doping plenty of good effects by that. There is room for improvement - but already 1.2 also brought substantial and very big improvements to the AI. The quest for finetuning needs to be followed further. But the main problem there was, has been solved.
I fired up AC just to give the new update a go, but after half an hour I felt that I was saturated for a good while of it!.. The thing I enjoyed the most was my final run which was a hot lap alone with the new Audi Sport Quattro around Nordschleife. And that's the thing, racing isn't as fun in AC.. I can enjoy a hot lap every now and then in some of the cars, like the Alfa Romeo 155 V6, Alfa GTA and the Ferraris. (love Ferraris) Cause that's another downside in AC along with the short track list. Some cars feels great, and others feel sluggish, slow and unresponsive..
The spectrum of quite different cars offered in AC is quite wide, so it is no surprise that they show extreme difference in how they feel. If they would show less variance, something would be wrong there. It is what sets AC apart from all other current titles: the physics. Regarding this, AC currently plays in a league of its own. This does not mean that less sophisticated physics cannot create convincing illusions and highly enjoyable driving experiences, obviously R3E for example can, easily. But the driving characteristics and physics are not as close to the real car, as in AC. That' why the same car in AC and in R3E still feel different - with AC usually being agreed to be closer to the real thing. Also the same tracks, feel quite different to drive, which is again true for the new Zandvoort of AC, and R3E's. Jedem Tierchen sein Pläsierchen. There ist a reason why I play BOTH sims!
I know AC since its beta... First of all, I really don't care about road/street cars. I would better buy Truck Simulator to drive around. But love the tracks, and the GT racing cars... and the promising of the Lambos (GT) Well, I used to like way more the physics pre-1.2 patch. IMO, of course, the cars I tested feel weird now. Have tried the Godzilla, and the 458. I really don't understand the physiscs behind the low speed lack of grip. This used to plague iRacing (much better now). This has nothing to do with tire temps. It's lack of weight, plain and simple, Very unreal. I have to try a little bit more. But I'm not impressed so far. PS. Nothing to say about the AI, yet.
you are considering the most recent AI. in this sense yes, the 1.2 has improved it. but to assess the development of it, you must start from the beginning. Did you watch the video that I posted above? it was the first AI released, it had a lot of problems of course, but was much more combative than now, and faster (always slow with some cars, but better than 1.2 for sure). so in my opinion, overall it has not improved as people is saying. it has improved some aspects, but others worsened, patch after patch. Alien drivers are humans, I think you have done something wrong in reasoning. they are the Schumacher, Senna in the simracing. what's wrong to create an AI that at the highest level of difficulty, is able to match or exceed these "aliens"? you can always scalar the difficulty, if you can not compete against the AI to 100%, you can use 95-90%, what's the problem? everyone is happy.. then why on R3E or RF2 I can compete with the AI and find a good level of challenge, but in AC becomes a misplaced speech? The AI must be assessed as a whole, and for my needs, it's too slow to be considered just sufficient.. Moreover, if the AI at 100% of difficulty at Mugello with the E30 GrA, run in 2:10, it is easily beatable by a lot of people, not only the "aliens" as you say ..
i know this is a bit extreme, but after letting it settle in last night this update really felt like its approaching sublime in terms of car handling. i think only rf2 can give an equal or better high for me in that regard.
I judge the AI by what it is, what it once has been I only care for if in the past it has been better. And in the past it may have been more agressive, yes: at the cost of slammign and crashing into player cars like a maniac - which was often complained about. I do not want that back, no way. The toning down of that crfashing behavior (made worse by the messy collision physics at that time) came at the cost of taming down the general aggressiveness as well. It may have not been done intentional, but came as a side effect from changes designed to cure the kamikaze AI. You can see something similiar in R3E. The AI has been changed recently. It is now more capable in negotiating certain critical corners, it drives "rounder" racelines, brakes better - but it creates fewer surprising action and drama as well. Probably as a sideeffect from the major intended changes and tunings as well. The difference with alien drivers is that thy are so FEW by numbers. Most drivers are not on their level, and never will be. If you can set up an AI to be competitive with human aliens without violating the physics algorithms at the same time, okay, go for it, Kunos or Sector 3 as well will be happy to learn all about how to do it. I assume it is more difficult to tune the aI for alien level, than tuning the AI less advanced - but still making it good enough for already the vast majority of drivers, the average, the ordinary crowd, the non-aliens. Before you can have alien AI, I assume you need to tune the AI to ordinary level. And tunign an AI always needs to take into account correct physics, and the need to redesign each and every preset racing line for every course. So, I doubt it is as easy as you maybe imply without realising it. Which is true for every race sim. Sector3 probably is lucky to be able to ground on plenty of experience with coding an AI, due to over one decade of Simbin simulations. For Kunos team, it is completely new land. I once recommended them, due to my frustration, that they try to find former Simbin AI-guys that have not been picked up by Sector 3, to buy into that experience advantage. Never got a reply on that LOL, maybe they snapped. And finally, please differ between what I said and what you interpret into my words. I never said nor implied that "the AI is only beatable by aliens". See my earlier explanation in this reply - that is what I am after. Its a bit like with chess programs these days. Skill level of the AI when playing against the computer is no longer a selling argument to buy a new engine, since they almost all , all decent ones, are totally on god-like overkill level for 99% of the chess-playing crowd, and needs options to tame it down anyway to make it more enjoyable. But before chess engines became that, they needed to become mediocre players, and before they became mediocre, they needed to endure the years when they were weak. Being a former chess and correspondence chess tournament player myself I know from own eyesight that the analysis strength of modern engines are only used by and useful for highly engaged tournament or professional players - which more than 99% of all chess players ARE NOT. I expect that economic logic as well as player's needs dictate comparable necessities for race sims' AIs. This is not to say that there is any sim title with such a superior AI that it would compare to the superiority of engines in chess. I have good memories of GTR2 and GSCR, also the Geoff Crammond titles did surprisingly well, even by today'S standards. Ev en the famous rubber b and in Nascar 2003 was able to at least provide a dramatic race event. R3E is in my understanding still in development, but also already performs acceptably solid. AC's AI is behind that, but is at least able to set up race events with overtaking, and speeds that I need to tone down the AI if I do not play with car setups, which I never do since it doe snot interest me. The next big thing is they need to teach the AI to brake more aggressively into turns. If that could be achieved, plenty of posiitve side effects will come from that, I would assume, boosting the AI in general, regarding its performance level and lap times. .
The AI does not pit you off the road since 1.1 where Kunos had fixed that issue. At least the AI drives more like a real driver than robots following in a line on the track because now they do overtake each other instead of stay behind the same car for the whole race. At the same time, they are cleaner most of the time. The AI also spread out well instead of drive bumper to bumper for the whole race when there are space in front for the AI to drives faster. That is a major improvement for me because the AI actually race now, not being a moving obstacle with nice liveries. At the very least, I can stop calling AC a hotlap simulator with moving obstacles due to the AI improvements. I still play at the same difficulty as 1.0, i find the AI is faster than 1.0 and slightly slower than 1.1's performance. I still have the best challenge at 1.1 but I do not mind more realistic behavior for a slightly slower AI. The AI is obviously a work in progress, compared to what it was previously, 1.2's AI is a huge improvement.
the AI in 1.0 was very bad. i was talking about the first AI release. posted the video, look at it. where are the robots? I did the same event in the 1.2, they are 4-5 seconds slower than this video. so all in all, where is the huge improvement? for me it has improved on certain aspects for sure (less crash in race), but it si much slower and less combative, negative things for what i need. you're talking like you are a dev. I'm a player, and I speak as a player. I understand why Kunos made these choices, I understand that for them it is the first time with AI, and sure it is not very easy. I have respect for what they do, and I am not criticizing their work. they have all the excuses in this case. but as I said, I'm a player, and as a player I have some needs. you were talking about big improvements for the AI in 1.2. well, in truth it is not. from the first release, I saw it improve on certain aspects, but on others it is much worse. paradoxically I could enjoy it more in the first release, because at the moment it is too slow. the world of simracing is not divided in aliens and the rest of the players. everyone has their own level, there are very fast drivers, fast drivers, drivers a bit slower etc etc. but at the moment, who can be happy with the AI of AC? an AI that is doing 2:10 at Mugello with the E30 GrA? even now, the AC AI has extra grip, so physics is already altered.. in the AI application, you can assign it 120% of grip for example. but that's normal, every game can not afford to let the AI use the same user physics. It is a waste of resources, and the result is hardly satisfactory. the important thing is to make run the AI in a realistic way, how it is not important, imho. it seems like a competitive AI at the highest levels of difficulty, is an insult to the "amateur" players .. they can select the most suitable level of difficulty. exactly as they do with driving aids. a good AI must be able to satisfy the majority of users, and most of the sims in circulation, are able to do. Aliens, fast players, normal players, are users. and are not a slice of users so small as it is believed. look how many players are doing less than 2:10 at Mugello: http://www.radiators-champ.com/RSRL...l&rank_type=all&community=all&friends=all&p=1
In my opinion, they drive like robots. They rarely overtake other AI drivers while more importantly, they almost never overtakes you. The AI is essentially following a line while being very passive as if they are following a preset line. The video is quite misleading as most cars does not have any liveries, how would one could see if the AI overtook another AI's cars? At the same time, they are all single classes where overtaking opportunities are rarer compared to a grid of GTEs with 5 cars that has different stats. I had done quite a lot of races with GT3, GT2 and GTEs, I am generally quite pleased with the AI's performance because they do battle with me, instead of passively drive around the track refused to overtake me when there are opportunity. I tend to play multi class with a variety of road cars, there are tremendous amount of improvements with the new AI because now I do not see Zonda Rs getting stuck behind Fiat 500 for almost the entire race. The Zonda Rs will quickly find a gap to overtake the slow cars now. That is a massive improvement. Maybe it isnt for you, however, that is an improvement for me to the point that AC is no longer a hotlap simulator. I rather agree to disagree that my opinion is different than yours instead looking back on how perfect things were through rose tinted glasses. It isnt, and AC had improved a lot in about a span of 1 year after Early Access.
again we are talking about different things. you are making a comparison between the AI 1.2 and AI 1.0. in this case I agree with you, there was a big improvement. but I remember the AI in his first outing. and if I have to compare the current 1.2 with that, I do not see big improvements. indeed, in many aspects it has also worsened. before it was much more combative than now, you could do with it many side by side, the AI did not give you the position without fighting hard. another video where you can see that they are also fighting among themselves, avoid obstacles, and make mistakes. in the end I do a good battle with the rider in first place:
Yep I would agree with this. In terms of the way the car handles and how it feels through the FFB, I would say Assetto Corsa is right up there. I spent a couple of hours last night just hot-lapping and really enjoyed it. The car feels connected to the road and FFB is very communicative. Then again Assetto Corsa has always been a good drive but it's for other reasons I barely play the game. Cars - I have little interest in road/track day/supercars so I find the car roster a little limited for my tastes. There's a lack of fleshed-out class based racing and real series, an area R3E really has no competition. The GT3 class does have something to offer and will be built upon so that's where my time will be spent in AC. Single player game - not there for me yet. Tracks - look and feel great between the armco barriers. Outside of that the circuits look and feel a bit bland and lifeless. Not enough Kunos tracks although I like the ones that are there. As a post note, I installed Donington Park and that is an exceptional mod track, almost indistinguishable from Kunos' work. Graphics - not as crisp as R3E. AC has some nice effects but overall I prefer the aesthetic of R3E. I feel the areas AC excels in are the areas where R3E is lacking and vice versa. AC is great on the track and FFB feels good and requires little tweaking whereas R3E's handling can feel a little vague, floaty, disconnected, dare I say it......a hint of centre pivot steering going on? FFB lacks tyre feel and is far too convoluted and time consuming to setup, in my case without satisfactory result. FFB is by far the weakest aspect of R3E in my opinion which is a shame because the rest of the product is so strong. So yeah, long-winded post but for me, as it stands, AC is the driving sim, R3E is the racing sim.