No, we don't That post was a reply to pixeljetstreams question, regarding a specific value in the AI index. And just for the record, the AI tool and the reverse-engineering that goes into it, doesn't change the fact that it still relies on the adaptive AI algorithms already in the game. All we've done is come up with a way to get the book-keeping (for lack of a better phrase) done quicker, so people can get good racing as fast as possible. But we are most certainly not 'fixing' anything. Mainly because it isn't broken in the first place.
Yes, a bit. In fact my family hears me yelling "WTF A$$HOLE" at least 2 or 3 times a race. I didn't say it doesn't bother me. I had to learn to get over it and keep going. But knowing how to handle the car to avoid totally loosing it is the key. Which way to turn the wheel and how much. 4 out of 5 times I just end up with 4 wheels off the track loose some speed and a couple of positions before I get back on the track. Keeping one eye on the mirror and one on the map while getting back on. So as not to get trashed then. And if that's not happening, I brake hard to get the car stopped and hit the reset car key. (That took a lot of practice to form into a habit) That will USUALLY put you in a safe spot to keep going from with out too much time lost. But mostly, it's attitude. Am I going to let a bot ruin my fun? There is not a big cash prize for winning the race. Nobody is going to offer me my own line of designer clothing or a beer commercial contract. For me, it is my attitude. I'm here to have fun. This is not serious. I had to choose how I feel. Yes it can be frustrating. And that's when I turn it off and go ride my horse.
Getting hit from behind: It depends a lot on the cars used. Because that also affects how people are driving themselves. Yesterday, i tried all 5 openwheelers, one after another. I found that I got shot off all the time in the "Indy" car. But then, I suck in that car, its brakes, acceleration, steering - everything is too aggressive in it for me. And so I brake more cautiously, and that means: too defensively, too far away form turns. At points where the close-in-my-neck-sitting AI does not expect it. I brake, and leave it no time to react. Bam! Same for steering, this car is just too aggressive for me, in pack racing, I slam into others left and right of me in every turn I try to overtake. If I get into a position to try overtaking, that is... Its different in the Formula 2 and Formula junor car, which are my preferred open wheelers. The Formula-2 car is more stable, more "round" in its behaviour, more well-behaved, and less hyper aggressive, so to speak. i can handle it much better, it feels heavier, I can brake with greater confidence later and still smoother with it. Result: I get shot off far less often, almost never. Same in the Junior car. Because my driving is more predictable in both cars. Formula 3 and Tatuus are solala, somewehre sitting between the before mentioned cars. So once again, my conclusion: when you complain about the aI shooting you off the track all the time, check your driving, and the way you can - or can not - handle the car. Own driving has a lot to do with it. I do not see Indy cars driven by the AI colliding that often with each other. Just with me. "Me" obviously is an important variable in the formula calcuating the total number of incidents.
Switches away from Adaptive AI to 105 % and got a really nice Race on the Nords right now. GTM 2016 grid, startet 4th, finished 2nd, no hit from behind
2015 of course, sorry. Time is running ;-) 2016 is my wet dream. Should be the most interessting season in view of starters and varieteof cars.
OK this is kind of annoying. I have been trying to tune the adaptive AI in championship mode. I am running extremely consistent (if not somewhat slow. I tend to run in catagory 4) lap times. The first couple of races were great. Very tight racing I finished 6th, a couple of 3rd's then finally 1st. Then on Oschersleben, the fastest AI was about 2 seconds a lap slower than me. So I went into single race mode and run a couple of 5 lap races to bring them up to speed. And at the end of those 2 races the AI are still slower than me. But when I go back into my championship races, the slowest AI is about 1/2 second a lap faster than me. And the fastest is 4 seconds faster than me. And it stays that way no matter what I do. I thought "fuck it, it's only a game and this race will be my mulligan". But now, they are staying at that pace and I can't tune them down even with running races to slow them down. Is this the norm? That single race and championships are separate? Because they tend to be slower than me in single race mode. Is it my computer? Is anyone else having a similar experience? This is the very reason that I stopped using the adaptive AI in the past. And rarely ever play championships even though it's my favorite way to race. Because of my different levels of performance on different tracks. The adaptive AI are supposed to fix this. Not magnify it. I'm wanting answers please. NOT bitch and moan responses. Thanks in advance Gregoryleo.
I have tried today with the adaptive AI from scratch. Deleted the file and started a race to see what's what. As far as the pace and the chasing and defending experience goes, they are great. Honestly, I am not super consistent, but it is fairly possible to start for example in 6th position and then make it to first on a 5 lap race if you rally work for it (which I think is how every game should be), the the thrill is great - I really began to push myself and drove faster and faster and planed my overtaking depending who is in front, because they aren't easy to pass. And that would be it for the good parts. Because once you you get into the overtaking business or worse, the AI get into it, you are pretty much dead. They do everything to kill you. And I have read all the advice how to treat them and so on, and it's all fairy tales. I have grown to be a very cautious driver. I am able to keep a steady pace, so the guy behind me knows what to expect and same goes for overtaking, I don't go on the inside every time I see a 20-inch gap between the bloke in front and the apex. The problem is, the AI don't care. Leave 1/4th of a car worth of space and they are already in there. Now I use Crew Chief, so even if they are in my blind spot, I am prompted that a car is not my inside line, so I take the outside line. You would think the AI would appreciate that and continue their overtaking manoeuvre on the inside, but no. They go to the outside right on exit, pushing me off the track. 3 wide in a tight hairpin? No problem, the AI knows that with any contact it's the player who will get shafted by the physics, so they go for it anyway. In Project CARS it's sometimes similar, but if you leave the space and allow to make a clean overtake, they will not touch you, sometimes they will even choose to go over the grass, rather then hit another car. But in Raceroom, it's like the players car has big bullseye painted over it. It's frustrating beyond imagination. I don't often get angry playing games, but today was a festival of loud gutter language and now my neighbours hate me. It's good that the AI races you, it's good they exploit your mistakes and it's good that they don't make it easy for you. But at the same time, they are purposely trying to murder you every time they get a chance. This was all on Zandvoort in the Group 5 cars (I was in a Nissan 2000 btw, awesome ride), so it might be different in something like GT3, but damn, each car in this game costs moneys, when I buy a pack or a vehicle, it's not because I want to watch a picture in the menu or do hotlaps. It's really too bad, because I do think that the adaptive AI is an awesome feature and unique among racing sims, but all this bumper cars stuff is not an enjoyable experience.
Why do we still have such aggression in the AI , updates come an go but it's still there It's a shame as the sim is good in many other ways
I think it's because with certain more popular content (GT3), it's not psychopathic, if you don't push yourself into dangerous situations.
First things first, I don't think there's any difference between single races and championships. Granted, I haven't had time to actually run a championship yet, but I can't imagine the AI would differ. It might have something to do with how you go about 'training' it. If you just run races against the AI, you occasionally end up painting yourself into a corner, as it were. One of the reasons I've spent so much time on figuring out how to train it optimally is that it's a little fickle when left to its own devices. When you run races against the AI, it jumps anywhere from 10 to 4-5 levels each time it corrects, which can make it overshoot the target. And it's a little loath to try lower levels if it hasn't got entries for that particular level. Even worse, if it runs out of entries (six is the maximum it'll use on its own IIRC) it'll jump to 120 on the last one. If you know how, you can check the AI-file itself. If not, upload it, and post the car/track combo, and your approximate laptime, and I'll take a look and see if I can find anything.
Thanks cheerful. That actually makes sense in a techi kinda way. I down loaded the Adaptive ai primer. And I think I know what happened. My track times run from level 99 to level 114 in the 6 slots. So if I understand this, the AI are running at an average of the 6 slots? yes? Oh, and, when I went back into single race mode later, they were just as fast. Anyway, Thanks for the help. Kind of eases my frustration a little. Thanks again. Gregoryleo
No, they don't use the average of those six levels. Wouldn't work since the AAI always starts slow, thus dragging the average down. The AAI takes the average of your last 10 laps, then compares it to the index it has for that combo. (Btw, the lap-times in the index is the average of the grids fastest laps, again averaged if there are multiple instances of running that particular level) The AAI then finds a comparable lap-time, and runs the race at that level. The problem you're having is that the index has a gap where your lap-times actually fit in. One of the quirks of the AAI is that it doesn't really like to try out new AI levels if it has an entry that is sorta close enough, especially if it means having to delete an entry to make room for a new one. So you get stuck in a no-mans land. Easy fix though. Either use @pixeljetstream 's AI primer to adjust the times, or run a few short races with fixed AI at the desired level(s). Races with fixed AI also gets added to the index. What you're looking for is an index that contains 5-6 entries bracketing your actual level. That way the AI won't vary too much, no matter if you're slower or faster in any particular race.
One more thing for the tip-of-the-day box. If you're having trouble getting good racing on some of the shorter tracks (e.g. most of the National layouts), consider dispensing with qualifying. I had one hell of a time getting the FRJs to cooperate on Red Bull National. If I ran the AI at he 'right' level, I'd murder them in qualifying. If I subsequently increased the AI so qualifying ran as it should, they'd then proceed to murder me in the race. I'm not entirely sure what is going on, but I suspect that with the short tracks, the AI simply has trouble finding clean air for their qualy runs. Instead, what I did was go back to the 'right' AI level, plonk myself into P6, and start the race. Which turned out to be an excellent idea. Lots of fun trying to keep up with the leaders. Then I managed to grab the lead on the final lap, almost ran out of fuel and sputtered across the finish-line with 0.3L left in the tank, and P2 0.2 seconds behind me, P3 0.1 seconds behind him. Doesn't get much better than that. Admittedly, it's not great, and not being able to run qualifying is a bit of a bugger if you're trying to do a championship. But for stand-alone events, it works like a charm. Edit: Like this:
How quickly does Adaptive AI learn? I was getting bored of no challenge and decided to try adaptive AI and just won the first DTM race by lapping every single car and some twice over a 55 min +1 race
Depends on how you go about it. Although first things first. Being tired of 'no challenge' does this mean you're running at 120% AI already? If so, Adaptive isn't going to help you. It can't go above 120%, no matter if you run fixed or adaptive AI. That aside, the AI doesn't adapt during a race, only between races. So while you're getting it up to speed, short races are your friend. Also note that the effect carries over, so if you run the same class on one track, and then start another track, it'll remember the setting for that car-class. Finally, it adapts based on lap-times, not race-times. Or in other words, you're better off running short tracks first, since shorter tracks means faster laps, again meaning it'll adapt faster.
I should have explained more clearly, maybe challenge is the wrong word. I am looking to practice following cars and passing. Currently I am playing 105% but either I completely stomp or on tracks I'm not as strong at I am falling to far off the pace to practice passing / following. If I set the game to 100% then I win every race. Mostly what I was hoping for was to see if the AI would adjust for each track, not just according to how I do on one race. Cause if it is Hockenheim, Hungaroring, for some reason Moscow, then I will lap all the cars at 103%, but on Norisring, Lausitz, I struggle. But none of them do I end up in what seems like a battle. And it doesn't sound like the Adaptive AI is what I was looking for. Was hoping it would have been done more like neural weighting system maybe based on corners / sector / relative times. But if it just sets a setting accord to last 10 laps then its not what I thought.