The new adaptive AI

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Paradox Agi, Apr 18, 2016.

  1. Tobias Schröder

    Tobias Schröder Well-Known Member

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    yeah i figuered that out a few months ago, but thank you anyway :D
     
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  2. CheerfullyInsane

    CheerfullyInsane Well-Known Member

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    Actually, that's exactly what it does, maybe I should've been more clear. :)
    The Adaptive AI adapts according to the last ten laps for that particular car/track combo.
    If you switch class or track, it adapts to your pace with that combo.
    There's a bit more to it than that, since it also 'borrows' info from other combos, but no need to get technical about the whole thing.
    Short version is that the more you race with adaptive AI, the more info it has, and thus the more likely it is to hit the sweet spot for any particular combo.

    In your case, if your 'standard' level is 105, try running a short race against 110 on the tracks where you're strong, and a short race against 100 on your weaker tracks. Then switch to adaptive.
    The point being to give the Adaptive AI a bracket, so to speak, of five levels which you fit into somewhere.
    It's much more likely to adapt if it has an idea of what levels to try out, as it were.
     
  3. fsuarez79

    fsuarez79 Member

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    I'm trying to figure out the best way to approach AAI training as a new user. I've barely done around 10 hours in the game and only own the DTM 2015 series but plan on purchasing probably all content very soon. My intention is to use RRE mostly for offline championships.
    I deleted the xml file since it probably barely has any data in it and I want a fresh start, so the way I want to approach it is:

    Let's say I want to do a DTM championship in 5 different tracks.....
    Before starting the championship, pick the car I will be using and do practice sessions with just one AAI (as someone else mentioned in a previous post in order to avoid running into other cars and keep my laptimes consistent) and just hotlap for a while so the game can gather enough information on my laptimes and do that for all 5 tracks.

    For single races and once I own more series, just hotlap for a while with 1 AAI in any given car/track combo, so by time I decide to run a single race using that same car/track combo, the game will already have data to go by.

    Is this a good approach or am I high? :sweatsmile:
     
  4. CheerfullyInsane

    CheerfullyInsane Well-Known Member

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    You're high. :D

    The basis of the approach is sound enough, but the problem is that the AAI doesn't adapt during a race, only between races.
    So 5 laps of hotlapping will only give you one entry.
    So when you're just starting out, short races are your best friends.
    If you're trying to do a 5 track championship with a single class, start doing single races on one track.
    Standing starts, full grid and starting last. After 2-3 laps, hit Esc and restart race.
    Rinse and repeat until the AAI has gotten up to your speed.
    Next track, same thing, only difference is that it'll look at your previous AI levels for that class, so it'll start closer to your level.
    And so on, and so forth.
    Every combo you do makes the next one start at the average of the AI levels it already knows about, so the more tracks you do with one class, the faster it'll start to adapt.

    EDIT: Btw, the reason for using full grids is that if you only race with one AI, you admittedly get less chance of a collision. But your opponent is picked at random, and not all AI drivers are equally fast. So in order to get a nice average of the grid, you need at least 12-15 cars on the grid, preferably all available cars in the pack.
    Just don't go over 29 opponents.
     
  5. fsuarez79

    fsuarez79 Member

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    Thanks for the clarification, especially that last paragraph was very insightful. I wouldn't have guessed that racing one AI would only modify the behavior for that specific driver. Will do as you suggest. Cheers :)
     
  6. fsuarez79

    fsuarez79 Member

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    @CheerfullyInsane Hey man, one more question....If I'm gonna be doing short 3-4 lap races with 20 AI and starting last, what do you think is better?

    a) Race them normally and in the process probably gain a few places?......In this scenario my lap times would be lower than my potential hotlaping pace as I'll be fighting for places and sometimes get stuck behind a car

    b) Give them a 3-4 sec advantage at the start of the race, so i'll probably still be last after 3-4 laps but my laptimes would be closer to my hotlaping potential and more consistent as I'll be racing "alone".

    Does AAI looks strictly at laptimes or also your position in the race?
     
  7. CheerfullyInsane

    CheerfullyInsane Well-Known Member

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    It only looks at lap-times. It couldn't care less which position you're in.
    As to whether to race it or not during the 'practice' races, there are pros and cons to each possibility.

    If you don't race them, you'll get times close to your hotlapping ability, and thus the fastest AI that you can still race.
    But when you start to race them 'seriously', you occasionally end up having the top guys leave you behind because you're stuck in traffic.

    If you race them, you get an AI adapted to your actual race-pace.
    But it also means a very high chance of spins and crashes which will affect either yours or the AIs laptimes (or both).

    Personally, I start out with the hot-lapping option. Then, when I think I have the right pace set, I put myself in P6 and try to actually race them. Usually works out OK.
    Besides, it's not the end of the world if the setting is slightly off. One of the reasons that I like the AAI option is that it's dynamic, so it'll continue to adapt as you progress through whatever series of races you have planned.
     
  8. fsuarez79

    fsuarez79 Member

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    Ok thanks, I think I'll go for the hotlapping option as well.

    "But when you start to race them 'seriously', you occasionally end up having the top guys leave you behind because you're stuck in traffic."

    ^^
    I don't think that's too bad as that kinda thing also happens in real life racing, unless they slow each other down fighting for positions which I guess can/will happen as well.

    I'm thinking another pro of this approach is, if their bar is set closer to my hotlaping pace, that should have more realistic and challenging effects during quali sessions.

    But yeah, the fact that it's dynamic and will continue to adapt is great. Thanks!!
     
  9. Fleskebacon

    Fleskebacon Well-Known Member

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    I have been racing the AI at 107% for quite some time, before I recently decided to give the adaptive AI a chance.

    And I was blown away - this is spot on and eternally better than a fixed level!

    For my own part, I immidiately noticed a couple of things:

    1. After a couple of races, it matches my skill level perfectly, gives a good challenge yet not frustrating.

    2. It also adapts quickly to new tracks where I'm not as fast as on other tracks that I know well. This was my initial reason for not using adaptive AI, I was afraid it would take too long for it to adapt, having to adapt for each track/car etc. I don't spend hours and hours of racing each week, so I want quality time when I first have the time to sit down. But this proved to be a completely irrelevant problem - on most tracks it's already adapted better than the fixed setting I've used, in such a way that I often end up fighting for a podium finish. Perfect challenge for me!

    3. What I also noticed, is that the field is much more spread out with adaptive AI. When using a fixed setting, it seems to me that all the cars are almost equally fast, so if you spin or make a mistake, chances are that you will immidiately end up last, unable to catch up. That sucks. At least for me, who actually makes the occasional mistake... With adaptive AI, the field seems to spread out much more, and will usually be spread by more than a minute even in a short 15 minutes race. This gives me more room for small (and big) mistakes, without taking away the challenge of fighting for positions. The podium will most likely be out of reach after a spin, but it's far better fun to re-enter the field in 10th position and maybe climb back up to 8th or 6th, than knowing that a spinout will most likely put you last without any chance of catching up.

    And if I ever stop making these occasional mistakes, the AI will (hopefully) adapt.

    All this might just be me, but an already brilliant game got even better after switching to adaptive AI. Highly recommended. :)
     
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  10. Stef van Remy

    Stef van Remy Guest

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    Two little questions on that subject.

    Is there a list of an index of the tracks ? Can someone provide me one maybe devs ?

    What about fuel load regarding collected data ? Is the AI keeping up the level figured out and connected lap times to that no matter of the load of fuel ?

    I like to rework the aiadaption file by myself.
     
  11. CheerfullyInsane

    CheerfullyInsane Well-Known Member

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    You mean a list of the numerical codes corresponding to each track?
    If so, here:

    Raceroom raceway
    Grand Prix: 263
    Bridge: 266
    Classic: 264
    Classic Sprint: 265
    National: 267

    Monza
    Grand Prix: 1671
    Junior: 1672

    Mid Ohio:
    Full: 1674
    Chicane: 1676
    Short: 1675

    Zandvoort
    Grand Prix: 1678
    National: 1680
    Club: 1679

    Lakeview Hillclimb
    Full Run: 1682
    Reverse: 2181

    Zolder
    Grand Prix: 1684

    Nürburgring
    Grand Prix: 1691
    Short: 2011
    Sprint: 3377

    Hockenheim
    Grand Prix: 1693
    National: 1763
    Short: 1764

    Raceroom Hillclimb
    Full Run: 1705
    Reverse: 2214

    Portimao
    Grand Prix: 1778
    National: 1783
    Club: 1784
    Club Chicane: 1785

    Suzuka
    Grand Prix: 1841
    East Course: 2012
    West Course: 2013

    Bathurst: 1846

    Indianapolis
    Grand Prix: 1852
    Moto: 2014

    Sonoma Raceway
    WTCC: 1854
    Sprint: 2016
    Long: 3912
    IRL: 3913

    Mazda Laguna Seca: 1856

    Hungaroring: 1866

    Salzburgring: 2026

    Shanghai
    Grand Prix: 2027
    Intermediate (WTCC): 4041
    West Long: 4042

    Slovakia Ring: 2064

    Macau: 2123

    Motorsport Arena Oschersleben: 2384

    Eurospeedway Lausitz
    Grand Prix: 2468
    Automobilsport: 3291

    Moscow Raceway
    Sprint: 2473
    Full: 3383
    FIM: 3683

    Norisring: 2518

    Brands Hatch: 2520

    Red Bull Ring Speilberg
    Grand Prix: 2556
    National: 5794

    Paul Ricard
    Solution 3C: 2867
    Solution 1A: 4246
    Solution 1C-V2: 4247
    Solution 2A Short: 4248

    Sachsenring: 3538

    Spa-Francorchamps
    Grand Prix: 3870
    Classic: 4542
    Combined: 4543

    Chang International Circuit
    Full Curcuit: 4253
    D Curcuit: 4252

    Nordschleife
    Nordschleife: 2813
    VLN: 4975
    Tourist: 5093
    24 Hours: 5095

    Silverstone
    Grand Prix: 4039
    International: 5816
    National: 5817
    Historic GP: 5862

    Stowe
    Long: 6055
    Short: 6056

    Gelleråsen
    Grand Prix: 5925
    Short: 6138

    Mantorp Park
    Long: 6010
    Short: 6167

    Anderstorp
    Grand Prix: 5301
    South: 6164

    Knutstorp Ring
    GrandPrix: 6137

    Falkenberg
    Grand Prix: 6140

    Imola
    Grand Prix: 1850

    Sepang
    Grand Prix: 6341
    North: 6578
    South: 6579

    FRJ (20): 253
    Aquila (24): 255
    HillClimb Icons: 1685
    GTR1: 1687
    GTR3: 1703
    GTR2: 1704
    GTRX: 1710
    Touring Classics (39): 1712
    GTO CLassics (17): 1713
    Group 5 (44): 1708
    P1 (15): 1714
    Silhouettes (24): 1717
    DTM 13: 1921
    WTCC 13: 1922
    P2 (46): 1923
    BL Cup: 2322
    ProCar: 2378
    ADAC 13: 2922
    DTM 14: 3086
    ADAC 14: 3375
    DTM 92 (25): 3499
    WTCC 14: 3905
    DTM 15 (24): 4260
    ADAC 15 (19): 4516
    WTCC 15 (23): 4517
    FR2 (22): 4597
    Audi TT 15: 4680
    Audi TT 16 (20): 5726
    NSU (21): 4813
    F4 (20): 4867
    F3 (26): 5652
    Audi TT RS (20): 5234
    DTM 16 (24): 5262
    KTM (29): 5385
    FR US (20): 5383
    WTCC 17 (16): 6309
    BMW 235i (23): 6344
    FRX: 5824
    Porsche GT4: 6648
    Porsche GT3 Cup: 6345
    (Numbers in parentheses is the number of liveries in the class)

    As for fuel-load and its effect on the AI, I couldn't tell you.
    It's very rare that I run races exceeding 30 minutes.
     
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  12. pixeljetstream

    pixeljetstream Well-Known Member Beta tester

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  13. Stef van Remy

    Stef van Remy Guest

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    No you are not right. He wanted to explain that the drivers have differnet skills. As you just wanted to race one Ai oppenet you could randomly get a opponent not that fast as another one. So if you match up the pace of your AI other drivers could be faster so you will be not fast enough. Or the other way around. As you drive for example GT3 against K.v.d. Linde and you can match his pace then you will kill other drivers on same level easily.
     
  14. CheerfullyInsane

    CheerfullyInsane Well-Known Member

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    Oh btw, if you're going to muck around with the AI file manually, here's a few tips.
    1) Be absolutely sure of your syntax. Any mistake will result in the file being discarded, and a new one generated.
    So unless you're used to working with XML syntax, I suggest you use cut'n'paste from other similar entries and just modify the values themselves.
    And of course, back-ups are mandatory. ;)
    2) No more than 10 AI driver entries per combo (index 0 through 9), Any more will get the file discarded and....well, see point 1.
    Usually 5-6 entries are more than sufficient to do the job.
    3) Don't bother editing the file while R3E is running. R3E loads the whole thing into memory when it starts, and rewrites it upon shut-down. So any manual corrections that you make while R3E is running won't affect the AI as they weren't loaded, and they'll also get overwritten upon exit.
     
  15. keanos

    keanos Well-Known Member

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    Are there any news about the "adaptive ai primer" tool?

    I edited the assets file by myself, so I can still use the tool.
    I really like the possibility, to see which settings I have to do to "traine" the AI faster.
     
  16. Nano 10

    Nano 10 Member

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    The AI is so aggressive.

    Watch this







    The game needs to incorporate "%AI Aggressioin" like GTR, AC, PC2, RF2 and problem solved.
     
  17. GregoryLeo

    GregoryLeo Well-Known Member

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    I’m sorry I didn’t see anything aggressive there. I saw late braking, following their race line and you hesitating.
     
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  18. DaniloE31

    DaniloE31 Well-Known Member

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    At least Video Nr. 2 has nothing to do with braking ;)
    That AI Guy eventually carries the name of Mark (Marquez) :D:p
     
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  19. nobledms

    nobledms Member

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    Project Cars 2 has an aggresion meter for AI from 0 to 100. It works perfectly , i think that it should be the way to go in order to improve the AI behaviour in RR .
     
  20. Andi Goodwin

    Andi Goodwin Moderator Beta tester

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    i find the Ai ok , sometimes a bit timid even but very raceable , i run at 110-115% with most combos , and honestly its a blast

    Andi
     
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