Thanks for explaining yourself, it is good to know what you disagree with. Of course, it is a matter of personal preference as many things in life - to me, the most memorable races I had, were in GTR2, full race length, with rain kicking in or worsening, ruining my pit strategy. But I do respect this is not everyone's nr 1 on the list. Other things are easier to implement, and we're more likely to get them. I watched DTM 2015 second race at Hockenheim - in 1 hr weather changed. Game changed. This is autosport. Lack of comments coming from S3S push me to look into AC and pCars, despite their lack of real life series and other disadvantages. I hope I'll be wrong in the end.
I do want dynamic weather in R3E someday as well, but as Sean said. There is other things I do find more urgent.
i can understand your point of view. personally, i just can't get the same immersion racing AI. i just don't care as much if i make contact with an AI driver. when i race a real driver door to door nothing beats the feeling. i'm fighting to stay calm and focused as well as fighting to control the car. add a little adrenalin, and nothing compares. ok, almost nothing
Definitely, totally and absolutely agree with Tim! When I race with real people, no matter how skillful they are, it is always a thriller! In single player you can always restart in MP – you should really work hard and keep monitoring what's going around you! Most important you can find new friends in MP! The way the person drives – provides you a lot of information what person it is! By the way, Tim you are the great racer
Yes, game lacks in other departments. However, while I never worked on sophisticated sim (I worked on some horrible rip off race games for J2ME and Pocket PC/Palm ), but I guess that features like fuel usage, flags, mandatory pit stops, false starts, clutch bite point, double shift aren't that big in terms of cost to test and implement. Biggest being dedicated servers, my humble guess. And I also guess, we'll get those features (almost no doubt about it). And those are very important features, no question about it. I just assume they are already there, hence my primary concern is lack of rain. However, will it be complete racing experience (without weather)? I guess weather is huge amount of work, but S3S is silent and that's what concerns me. Well, let's hope we all get what we want
On the dynamic weather. How many actually can race competently in rain, and heavy rain? In MP you see so many dwarfs wrecking the competition in dry, sunny conditions already, that in rain I just fear for the worst. Also, Kunos staff once reported they implemented rain for netKart Pro due to demand some years ago - and then found that most people who ha demanded it, tried it once, maybe twice - and the never again. While it looks nice to race in a thunderstorm and at night, it also is hell on steroids to race under such conditions. Last sim I often used that offered weather, was GTR2 - and while I varied the cloud cover, I made sure to never get really wet track conditions. It simply was not much fun. Driving on aquaplaning is not fun at all. Also, as PC just seems to illustrate again, rain and its animation is taking a big bite from system resources. To me that is not worth it. I would recommend for R3E the same that I asked Kunos for, and which they thankfully implemented: to have several cosmetic weather settings that must not be dynamic, but just vary the skybox, the cloud, the light and colour palette. Like you now can chose from five times of day in R3E, lets also have a choice of fog, clear, scattered but sunny, light and medium clouds, and finally overcast. It may not have much or no effect on track physics, but alters the looks in such a dramatic way that it really can change the feeling of the driving you do (talking by experience). AC has won in immersion by allowing this. This static method has the advantage that it does not need as much development work like figuring out dynamic weather AND tailoring the physics model to it (dynamic weather with physical relevance is a major operation to implement and not just a small gimmick!) , but several sets of post processing filters and some tuned skyboxes, so all in all the workload is very limited, the time demand is forseeable and the physics must not be touched and finetuned (with all risk involved) at all. It is a workaround, but one that has been really appreciated in AC - I do not see why it should not work for the same appreciation in R3E. It is easy to wish for all and everything one could think off,l but lets be realistic. With limited resources in time, staff and probably money, you have to set priorities. And this solution, for the time being, works as a good compromise. One has to decide wether the wanted feature is worth the resources to invest in order to get it in full, or not. I think a compromise is the wiser solution, since rain and thunderstorm weather is overrated and not much used by players. I never saw a rainy race in whatever race sim I ever saw or tried live in MP, obviously most servers do not set them up. Ask them why. I tell you: likely it is due to messed up races by incompetent racers, and ruinous system demands.
LOL my thread has been completely trampled and smashed to bits! Oh well... If this helps the community... Can a moderator change the name of the topic into something more appropriate?
It's all your fault!! Hey it's been animated but it stayed civil, I've seen bloodshed threads in other games and here there's actually quite a lot of constructive criticism for both PCars and R3E...although I'd like to see R3E succeed more!
I just found out that I can modify thread title! Absolutely true. It's quite pleasant being able to discuss about "hot" topics like these without having AH around that bring nothing to the table but crap. Undoubtedly it's a great community.
+1 Something has to be done with the free to play model as it is giving an awful first impression to many gamers. I did not play R3E for over 2 years because I was put off by the business model at first glance where you are greeted with a lot of expensive single car/track microtrasactions. The packs style (Group 5, DTM and ADAC) microtransaction does make it a lot more appealing but I still think it is pricey. I went back to R3E after ADAC13 was out because I could not find good selection of GT3s in other games with polished and well designed physics. Now, I am playing a lot more after Group 5 and DTM. IMHO, I think the game has a decent amount of content now. Maybe S3S could release a Starter pack with around 10 tracks and a few starter cars that is something along the lines of the Hillclimb pack but with more cars from different classes and tracks. I wont mind if S3S bundle the contents form ADAC 13, DTM 13 and WTCC13 in one starter pack along with 10+ tracks. R3E gets better and better when you own more and more content so it would be great for new players to start with a good amount of content. Marvel Heroes did something similar where they rebrand their game's name after a year of massive improvements. Steam reviews does not help developers who had improved the game tremendously despite they made a lot of improvements. The ratings are still negative despite many consumer friendly decisions are made.
Agree 100% Re-brand/relaunch and make a Starter pack at 60$ that gives you most track and access to each class so new player can jump in pretty much all Multiplayer servers combo available, Right away people would be expecting something more along the lines of Marvel heroes or Blacklight. It would change people understanding of the model in place. Most people out there don't even know that you can play multiplayer with the free content or know what the free content is. I was one of those who wasn't on board when the game came out and i finally got in when dtm 2013 was on sale on steam. I have now spent 120$+ on this game and i regret nothing. Its my favorite game in a long time.
ok back on Topic. I finally got a chance to play it tonight. The game is fun. Driving the Ford Mk IV on California highway sliding all those turn is quite a blast. I went online picked a Gt race with the Ruf, 9 peoples showed up finished 2nd at sonoma. Again it was fun. Is the game a sim ... hmmm Its simish it does simulates driving Is it better than r3e or Ac .. Hell no .. But its still a pretty good value out of the box. I am glad i picked it up. A sim does not have to be hard to be fun. ( I wish peoples would stop saying that Hard = Sim ) My number 1 thing is and will always be fun. If i ain't having fun well why the hell would i play it?
Wasn't there a poll recently, that stated that most of the people on this forum are males, 35-45 years old? The most sensible people around.
I say a $40 pack would be better with a good amount of tracks and cars. You can use that opportunity to undercut other racing games. Let people have a good first impression when they boot up the game is more important, instead of being greeted by $3 Mclarens and Nissans once they got into the game. R3E has a lot of potential, it would be a waste to leave it the way it is now due to poorer first impressions. Still, i think the attachment rate of this game would be quite high. R3E is comparable to pCARS to me. Some cars like BMW 320i G5 and SLS GT3 drives similarly for me in both games. I prefer both R3E and pCARS over AC as both games have good amount of content and polish out of the box.
Make the most of it, you'll soon become a senile, vindictive grumpy old man like myself. "Oi, you bloody kids, get off the damn lawn.........
pcars had a lot of early backers, so the steamstats should reflect that... seconding that it would be ideal to whipe the lots of bad reviews on steam, given the game has evolved a good deal, as well as starter pack idea 30-40$. Though one thing I liked about pcars is that it's engaging beyond "just driving". career mode, radio, animated pit stops... all that adds to a world that feels a lot more alive. While some of the purists probably think that is less important, imo it adds to a good gaming experience, makes you feel a bit more connected. I'd rather avoid the sim vs game discussions, but a bit more gaming experience is good for a wider audience. As for free2play, I'd take away anything but the competitions and add some race events to it, with fixed settings and sort people by overall finish time or so. I guess the competitions are important for licensing, making sure everyone can attend and gives visibility to the licensed brands. There is also a good mix of cars, and since all these events are community events you become connected immediately. This also simplifies new user experience greatly, as now all you need is the competition screen + settings + shop for trials, it is more structured like a demo. The rest, the whole I can do what I want experience is behind the pay wall, still call it early access whatever.
I'd love to see this happen as well but more than likely it won't for two reasons. J-F posted earlier in this thread that for this to happen, S3S would have to renegotiate licenses and repay distributors to offer a "packs" type download at a price. I 'cannot imagine that this is financially wise for the studio. The second reason is backlash from the community. Many of us would be all for S3S ditching the F2P and offering a game with some stuff including for a price, but some folks would more than likely be very upset that they'd purchased all the content and folks were now able to buy a "pack" with all that content included at a smaller pricer than what others paid for it. S3S would risk splitting the community at that point. As I said in my Steam Review for the game, I'm not happy about buying each piece of content and wish there was a way to buy it all at once, but damn the game and the experience is so good and immersive, I've bought a lot of it. Up until I dusted off my copy of NR2003 and GP4 a few months ago, I'd never even heard of ADAC or DTM but now thanks to R3E I'm watching the series and keeping up with results and trying to pick a favorite driver for both series. The DTM experience made me a fan of this studio and this game and for that matter DTM as a whole. Project Cars has an older DTM Mercedes and a current DTM Mercedes and while I was running both of them around Monza and Nurburging and Hockenheimring what kept running through my mind was 'yeah this is fun, but damn I can just quit out of this and go run a full 1992 set or a 2013 or 2014 season with the real drivers and cars over in R3E. R3E with custom championships and experiences makes the driving more fun because I'm only running in cars I give a damn about and not a car I'll only drive once then never drive again. I've put about 10 hours into Project Cars and the only advantages that Project Cars has over R3E are weather and the game seems to be optimized better. PC runs much better on my computer than R3E at higher resolutions and more bells and whistles turned on. Sorry for the long post. I am enjoying PC and have finally solved the AI issue for the most part. It's an enjoyable game but as for me, AC and PC are still #3 and #4 below R3E and GSCE for me. I much prefer R3E and GSCE for day to day racing
The coldblooded capitalist in me sees it like this: in the end people will buy those items they want to buy and they will pay for it the demanded price at the given time if that is worth it for them. Nothing wrong in all that! To hell with all those sensitive considerations about social justice and equality between customers and that they all collectively must pay the same. It'S everybody'S decision whether he buys for the price, or not, whether he wants it, or not, whether he does it now, or waits. Nobody gets pushed and nobody is at a disadvantage. And if you later learn that somebody else paid less than you did, this does not change the fact that back then you paid for it what it was worth it for you. Else you would not have paid it. Trend in private consumer online trading and price-indexing goes towards defining individual prices for individual customers anyway. Prices also vary according to time of day, and day of the week. And we all are subject to realising that the price we paid for something, sooner or later gets undercut during that Steam sale in summer or at christmas. Or because the game has come of age. That's why I have repeatedly pointed out that R3E is a very expensive game, and that this may have the consequence to keep people away - but you hardly can see me complaining about the lots of money I paid. For me it was worth it, else I would not have done it. Wishes, desires and demands - do not automatically give people claim to get it at their conditions already. The other with whom you barter "product for money", has a word in it, too.
Its just based on my observations and experience as a fan and customer throughout the beta process (since last year) but what some seem to miss is that R3E from my POV originally has a different concept than AC or PC and I don`t mean F2P - even in the light of multiplaying. While with AC/PC (not to be mixed with AC/DC ) we got the classical all-in-one-video- game- box- office hit in the racesim genre, stuffed with content and Addons, DLC`s, Patches and maybe upcoming sequels its my understanding that R3E/S3 is actually longing for a real (nowadays called) "Synergy" (and cooperation) between Real Motorsports andRacing Simulation not only with the game aspects but also in all related areas, so that both fields may enhance (=through the game like DTME for example the fanbase for real DTM may grow as in conclusion this effect will have a positive impact on fans who never or tried a race simulator) even up to promotion of young talents in real motorsport.Another point is that l believe R3E will never be finished in a sense AC or PC (or GT or whatever classical Racegame)will be so that you can buy a V1.0 (you will, but that might not be the same as having a 1.0+ version of AC/PC) so that RRE will stay a continously enhanced and improved Sim with an undefinite amount of features and content....which also would support the idea of having a long-time-title, a real sustainable racesim instead of yearly released sequels...this ambitious process was slowed down by the structural crisis of last year but I guess we should keep that bigger picture in mind....simply said its about (puristic) Racing Experience like the name says not about RaceSim Experience....and yes, purists who want only that (like me) will be a minority (except for real Racedrivers who also get a new field of experience here) - also depends how successful Sector 3 /RaceRoom will become during this process.....correct me if I´m wrong
I do not see that difference you described, Fairman. AC is described by the developer to be maintained and developed and supported until 2018 at least - and beyond that, they said, the commercial perspective will decide. So it is an open end project like you claim R3E is. Also, like Sector3 as you described it, Kunos is quite close with the racing business and actually resides with its offices right in the same building like one racing team at Vallelunga. They get direct feedback from those engineers as well , that is why their formula Abarth car is said to be so extremely close to the real thing. They also equip real world teams with software and simulation interfaces. I think they even make their main income with that, not with AC. But here I just repeat what the community reported, I do not know hard facts. So this is what I BELIEVE to know. I could be wrong. As I see it, pretty much each title of the trio R3E, rF2 and AC is designed to be an open project with a longevity of several years of ongoing design development and production of new content. rF2 seems to be the slowest mover of them, R3E from what I read has seen a rough start and not until later last year started to be turned into a serious competitor giving a rewarding experience like it does now, and AC simply delivered a formidable Blitz-start from beginning on. AC got me hooked from beginning on, R3E: I was lucky not to discover it before it had left its teething problems behind and had reached a certain maturity already, so I had no chance to turn away in disappointment early, and rF2 - until today I have tried three demo builts, the first they ever released, the third 6 or 8 weeks ago, and one sometime in the middle. It yet needs to convince me, so far I just do not like it, not by looks, not by physics and not by driving. Maybe in the future - but I base my antipathy of what there is now, and what there was in the past so far. And what there was, was underwhelming.