The Raceroom Business Model Thread

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Rodger Davies, Sep 15, 2015.

  1. Rodger Davies

    Rodger Davies Well-Known Member

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    R3E's business model is great / awful / a scam / versatile / unique / better than iRacing's / worse than Assetto Corsa's / a rip-off / a bargain / special / disappointing / making me pay for liveries / the work of the devil / a godsend for those looking to invest a little at a time / the future / a relic of the past / Scandinavian / German / Napoleonic / capitalist / unfair / biased / preventative / inclusive / an affront to my human rights / inspiring.


    Discuss.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 15, 2015
  2. mr_belowski

    mr_belowski Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    Slow day? ;)
     
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  3. Dave R

    Dave R Well-Known Member

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    Not sure how this translates anywhere other than the US but reading your post @Rodger Davies made me feel like I was playing Mad Libs again.
     
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  4. ArtyomKurbatov

    ArtyomKurbatov Member

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    First time i buy GTR2/GTR3 cars, some tracks, when packs is be not allowed. I sell all my inventory from Dota 2 and buy cars and tracks (100-120$).
    Later i sell all my CS:GO items and make 30-40$ and buy DTM 2013 Expirience and DTM 1992 on Steam Summer Sale.
    After buy DTM13 i will race in competition and win DTM14.
    So, i think, R3E business model is good, especially if you a fast simracer and have 1-2 hours of free time.
     
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  5. Flavourlicious

    Flavourlicious Well-Known Member

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  6. heppsan

    heppsan Well-Known Member

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  7. Flavourlicious

    Flavourlicious Well-Known Member

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    Yeah that's where this discussion began today. :p
     
  8. Brandon Wright

    Brandon Wright Well-Known Member

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    It's confusing and complicated, for sure. But with a little research and planning you can actually get a lot of content for a reasonable price. There are different paths you can take, but I think I'm about $80-90 USD into the game and have all the tracks, all the packs, all the experiences and at least one car from every class (except German Nationals) so I get to fully enjoy what the sim offers on just about every level. Considering PCARS purchase price plus a couple DLC's is around $70, then what I've spent really isn't that bad. But had I not been careful I probably could have spent 50% more for the same content. The model certainly could be better, and less confusing, but it's not as complicated/expensive as it seems on the surface.
     
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  9. Fairman

    Fairman Well-Known Member

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    You forgot "none of my business" :)
     
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    Last edited: Sep 26, 2015
  10. Brandon Wright

    Brandon Wright Well-Known Member

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  11. Cheeseman

    Cheeseman Well-Known Member

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    R3E is still extremely expensive for me, considering I can now buy AC and pcars content with regional pricing.
    It would be great if new packs can be added to Steam so that people from less developed countires can buy them with regional pricing that is about 20%-30% cheaper than RoW prices. R3E content on Steam is about 30% cheaper than store prices while they go on sale very frequent.

    The exchange of my country currency to Euro is 1 to 5 now which made it ridiculously expensive to buy with Euro keep strengthening towards that currency.
     
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  12. Nigel Fox

    Nigel Fox Well-Known Member

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    I think I spent close to $200 US for RaceRoom, and there's very little I hadn't bought. I saw "Summer Sale" and assumed everything was on discount. But no, it was just week one, and I forget what was. I suppose I could have waited for the next three weeks to see what else would be discounted, but when I looked the list of stuff over in my shopping cart, I didn't want to put anything back. I don't regret it, love the (unfinished) game to death, but... well, for a beta, this is up there with "iRenting" costs. And of course more content is coming... meaning I'm not done spending money...

    I would really appreciate it if the parent group would consolidate the content into one massive deal, or at least heavily consolidate it into packages to make it more customer attractive. After all, if you sell 1000 units at $20, or 200 at $50, one will make you twice as much money.
     
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  13. James Cook

    James Cook Well-Known Member

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    Unique, versatile, a little expensive and in need of tweaking, but overall I'm fine with how this game is sold. I can buy only the content that interests me and I like that.

    Compare with DLC in other games where I have to buy a pack full of content that doesn't interest me to get the one thing that does. R3E isn't so bad after all.
     
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  14. Why485

    Why485 Well-Known Member

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    I've already posted my thoughts on the subject matter at length in the other thread. The pay model and the consequences that arise from it are what kill the game for me, and not just me judging by player counts. I sincerely believe it is the biggest thing holding this game back, not the game or its content, which is heartbreaking because the game is so great otherwise.

    All I want to add is that at this point, I'm more or less done with RaceRoom beyond periodic check ups until I hear specific developer commentary on the pay model and future of RaceRoom. I don't know what they have in mind to address this beyond only slight tweaks which help, but are only addressing the symptom, not the cause. For all I know it's totally out of their control, and the article posted suggests that this is up to the publisher, not S3S.

    Until I get a better picture of what's going on and what's planned, I'm not spending any more money on RaceRoom. There's too little information for me to make an informed decision either way (drop RaceRoom entirely or continue playing/funding it). The article posted earlier in the thread is too vague for my tastes. I'm just watching and waiting at this point. I've already said my piece.

    I'm just going to be repeating myself, so here's the links to my posts on the subject:
    https://forum.sector3studios.com/in...ions-future-or-failure.2755/page-2#post-29312
    https://forum.sector3studios.com/in...ions-future-or-failure.2755/page-2#post-29325
    https://forum.sector3studios.com/in...ions-future-or-failure.2755/page-3#post-29398
    https://forum.sector3studios.com/in...ions-future-or-failure.2755/page-3#post-29412
    https://forum.sector3studios.com/in...ions-future-or-failure.2755/page-3#post-29430

    Here are some excerpts. The context of the posts is obviously lost and I would recommend reading them in their entirety but I realize not everybody is interested.

     
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    Last edited: Sep 16, 2015
  15. Brandon Wright

    Brandon Wright Well-Known Member

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    Why can't you continue to use and enjoy the content you've already purchased? That doesn't make sense to me. You say it's a great game and you own all the tracks, but you're not going to play it. I certainly respect your opinion and I'm not saying it's wrong, I just don't get the logic behind it.

    I also slightly disagree with some of your points about MP. It's fairly easy and inexpensive to get most of the tracks (Euro Track Pack, Murican Track Pack, and WTCC 2013 pack should get you most of them) which is probably the most important thing if you want to participate in MP. Then all you need is one car from each class to participate in any particular online race, and not all the classes are used regularly so just check which ones are the most popular and start from there, buy others when they're on sale. No need to buy every car in each class. It is more confusing than it needs to be, for sure, but it isn't that hard to figure out. One positive side effect is that it keeps the impatient children away so we tend to have fewer rammers in online races.

    I agree that you do need to do a little research in order to get the good deals, and most people aren't willing to do the research and that has likely negatively effected the game. I know that at first I was turned off by it, but eventually it almost became a little game to figure out how I could get the best deals and I've ended up being close to $100 into the game. That seems like a lot, but it's not much more than a standard game plus a couple DLC's, and so far R3E has given me much more enjoyment for my money than AC or PCars or iRacing so it doesn't bother me in the least. But that's just me.

    But in my experience this isn't what's holding the game back the most. I have about a dozen friends around the world who sim race, I've managed to convince most of them to at least try R3E and I don't think any of them stuck with it. However, I don't recall any of them complaining about the price, instead it was either the floaty physics/ffb or the lack of proper triple screen support that turned them away. I'm not saying the cost/structure isn't a problem, it is, but from my non-scientific experience it isn't the biggest factor in the low adoption rate. I think if they get the physics/ffb of the free cars up to date it would help a lot because when people try the free content it's kinda like the piece of pizza that's been sitting under the heat lamp all day, not something you want more of and not nearly as good as a fresh slice from the oven. And if they could get rid of the floatiness, the overly complicated FFB menu, and introduce proper triple screen support, then I think more people would fall in love and not be as bothered by the pricing model.

    Again, just my opinion and I'm not trying to argue or tell you you're wrong. You make valid points and the current structure certainly isn't doing the game any favors. I'm just providing an alternate point of view to further the discussion, and I happen to think some other factors are doing as much or more damage than the pricing model. (Plus, I have a really slow day at work today and I'm bored as hell, wanting to get home and check out Spa!)
     
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  16. Why485

    Why485 Well-Known Member

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    I already stopped playing because the MP is too dead for me. I don't have much interest in trying to get back into the whole thing as there are already other games I can play with more active MP that aren't iRacing. I love how the game drives, but not enough that I care to spend much time racing against the AI. I was considering buying Spa today, because it's a great racetrack and R3E consistently puts out extremely high quality tracks, but then I realized I wouldn't use it for anything aside from maybe racing once or twice online.

    At the end of the day, until I know more, I just don't want to financially support and incentivize the current model. I don't think it's in the game's best interests, and I am voting with my wallet.

    Believe me, I'm fully aware of how to make your money go far in RaceRoom. I've spent the price of a full priced game and through various deals, sales, etc, and am satisfied with the amount of content I have from a raw value standpoint. I even have all the tracks in the game (except Spa). The whole fragmentation problem doesn't directly affect me so much, but I still believe it's a significant problem that's very off-putting to new players who might want to get into the game. That and more importantly, the fewer new players, and the higher the fragmentation, the less people there are to race against. It's why I'm so interested in coming up with ways to make the game more friendly for new players, and coming up with ways to encourage people to play together. The model as it stands actively prevents a multiplayer community from ever really growing.

    It also severely limits variety and experimentation. You won't know if you like a track until you've tried it, and other than the occasional free weekend, you'll never get to try a new track.

    My point has always been that it's an over-complicated system that if you want to make your money go far, you need to do a hell of a lot more research than I think is necessary. Hell, just look at this forum. There is always at least one thread on the first page with somebody asking questions about the pay model because it's so confusing. When somebody thought a thread like this was needed, and you look at the contents of said thread, it's a clear indication that something is very wrong with the pay model.

    The rest of your points are fair. I think we can agree that regardless of what might turn a potential new player off the game, the pay model is doing nobody any favors.
     
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    Last edited: Sep 16, 2015
  17. Brandon Wright

    Brandon Wright Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. It's a bit of a perfect storm of various elements that add up to keep people away. The low level of MP participation is something that turned me off at first too, I hoped the introduction of dedicated servers would help but it doesn't really seem to have done that. I often say that R3E is the best sim that nobody knows about, and these factors only help to ensure people don't know about it. Certainly, if there was a better way to try (why can't we test tracks like we can cars?) or purchase the content then more people might be willing to put some effort into it and eventually love it. But people seem to just write things off at the first sign of required effort so few people get to see what it actually offers, and then some who do try it only sample the free cars which do the game no justice. It does seem, though, that the few who manage to break through all these obstacles tend to really love the sim, so at least that's one positive sign.
     
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  18. James Cook

    James Cook Well-Known Member

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    I forgot to mention in my last post that I firmly believe some kind of loyalty bonus needs to be introduced. While R3E can provide good value for those looking to race on a budget (buying a few single cars and a handful of tracks, taking advantage of sales), it quickly gets very expensive for the day-one-purchasing completionist, the person that likes to own the majority of content in the game as soon as it's released. It's very easy to spend 2x or 3x the RRP of a standard PC game on R3E and while for the hardcore supporters this isn't necessarily a problem, for the wider audience I believe it could be an issue.

    A loyalty bonus has been suggested before in other threads so it's nothing new, but obviously this is now the place for it. How about something like this for instance.....

    Own 25% of content = 5% off all further purchases.
    Own 50% of content = 10% off all further purchases.
    Own 75% of content = 15% off all further purchases.

    ......or something similar? At least this way people are incentivised to continue spending and supporting the product, knowing they are getting a little back. It also rewards the day-one purchasers.
     
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  19. Christian Göpfert

    Christian Göpfert Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    Weeeee, yes, another thread I can use to display my arrogance and evil rudeness. :cool:

    Simply amazing to see all the things the business model is being blamed for.

    Actually getting tired of reading the same semi-valid points from the same 4 people, so I'll just leave the expert business consultants in here to making this the one game everybody will be happy with.

    Good luck.
     
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  20. Nigel Fox

    Nigel Fox Well-Known Member

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    I agree with James to a point. I mean... dozens of separate liveries?? Just bundle them all with each car. That kind of stuff, selling almost every separate bit you can, seems rather Micro$oft.

    For everything else, why not offer both options? Offer GTR-3 as a pack as well as separate cars, if for some reason you absolutely don't want the Camaro or Z4. Even though a pack will most likely be a better value unless you just want one or two cars.

    If the parent group running the show is responsible for this business model, and I have no doubt they are, they need to be told that it's a pretty bad idea. Most of us don't like it though we tolerate it in order to enjoy a GREAT racer, but the average gamer - and this IS a video game, remember - is not a big fan. To many, the price is too high for something they might not like. When it's driving away potential customers, you need to change the way you do business. Unless what you want is very little business.
     
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