Known Issue Thrustmaster and new FFB - Feedback requested from all users

@Schmelge :
Thank you so much for posting the pic with the ffb meter and all the movement you don't feel.
I was already thinking I was just going nuts and being the only one having this. Logitech here though.

 

I tried deleting the ControlSet folder and rebuild the controller defs and nothing changed

- controller name ( Thrustmaster T150 Racing Wheel)
- is it working? All is working except FFB, I can go smash a wall nothing happens.
- the controller profile (.rcs) (can be found in Documents\My Games\SimBin\RaceRoom Racing Experience\UserData\ControlSet)
- windows version (and update, preferably) Windows 7 64bits SP1
- Thrustmaster software version - firmware 35,
- the version of the driver for the wheel 2.10.9.0

 

Updated above.

 

So I'm still not totally satisfied with it, but the suggestion to drop linearity helps massively. Doing that makes the wheel have a bit more weight and makes it feel more responsive. My settings now are attached.

 

Hi ScoPi

@ What kind of Cars you drive with 50% linearity?
My personal experience is 65-75% linearity and 1% minimal force (roadfeel minibumps) on 1992 DTM,Group 2,4,5, Porsche Classic old cars to me it works well.
But when i drive a Porsche Carrera Cup 2019 at same settings the wheel is way to heavy to me.
May i ask a Question @ Devs?
To me it feels sometimes like every race track has mulitple layers of WHAT IS ON THE TRACK
Like a Main layer is the track and than comes a layer with the curbs and another layer for misc like manholecovers and asphalt edges.
If it is like this is it possibel to just raise one effect layer?
I see the FFB graph goes very high when driving over something but there is nothing happening at the wheel (manholecovers,asphalt edges like Pit exit NOS,Curbs)
Sorry for bad english or explaination maybe.

 

I tested with the Volvo WTCR 2020 and then tried the KTM X-Bow.

 

Bring back the life
T500RS After updating your Thrustmaster driver it is set to default 60% only!
To me thats the issue of the dead and numb feeling!!!
After setting it back to 100%
To me Race Room feels absolute great again.
Settings works on All Cars its not perfect but brings back more V.load speed -roadfeeling and Curbs,Manhole covers and stuff
FFB linearity 90-95%
FFB minimal Force 3% necessary to get roadfeeling back
standfriction 90%
Immersion one effect is needed to make it work
FFB reinforce bumps 30% necessary for Curbs ,asphalt edges,manhole covers and more

Hope these will help

 

- controller name: Thrustmaster T300RS Racing Wheel
- is it working? Yes. Works great. Besides not being a direct drive
- controller profile: Thrustmaster T300RS Racing Wheel (2)
- Windows 10 Version 10.0.18362 Build 18362
- Firmware: 33.00
- Driver: 2.10.68.0

 

I fixed it for my wheel!
Wheel: T300
System: Windows7 (<-I just dont care)

This previous post PERFECTLY describes how my force feedback felt, which is interesting he has a different wheel

There was almost no information just bumps and a counter force in the corners that was almost the whole ffb. Felt very smooth like driving on ice: like a very smooth surface.

How I fixed it for my rig: Actually just updating the driver and firmware.

If you already did this I was in the same boat as you, the update service says it updated everything so I thought its fine but actually it does not for some odd reason and I realized that when I saw the version numbers posted by the last user that said it works fine for him. I dont know exactly how I made it to finally install but as soon as the driver and firmware were on a later version than before raceroom feedback worked fine.

I updated to driver version 2.10.47.0 (I know it is not the latest but it's an update over the last one I had and ffb also worked with the newer version 2,10,76.0)
Firmware version updated to 33.00
The settings are default 75/100/100/100/100 (I didnt want to test changes in this menu for now I am happy ams and r3e work)
[For some odd reason the rotation changed sometime the past to 450° and I left it like that back then because I got used to it so I changed it to that value after I reinstalled the driver]


How I updated:
I updated the driver in the driver menu (where you chose your force feedback settings) and the firmware with a shortcut for "firmware update" in start menu under "thrusmaster".

 

I'm sorry for the necro, but I couldn't find anywhere else.

There's absolutely zero feedback when you're about to lock your tyres. I'm coming from a full simrig I had to sell but in others sims I can tell when I'm about to lock'em. I've tried all the tips from this thread but to no avail. I've got a T300RS with T3PA pedals, so no more hydraulics for me, unfortunately.

I'm enjoying RaceRoom a lot in this free trial period but I can't buy the full product when I'm loosing races because I can't feel the tyres locking, specially because I like vintage cars.

 

@caparrozhc Maybe you have to turn the FFB linearity a bit up.
Recommended for you wheel is 85%

 

having a t300 too, i have my linearity down to almost minimum and you still feel the wheel go limp when the fronts lock

 

The truth is that it's hugely overdone in other Sims. It's not a thing in real life. Your main sense for wheel lock is your ears, it's very obvious when you start to lock. And as bubble said, I have a t300 and I do get a sense of understeer happening, it's subtle, but its there.

 

I bit the bullet and bought the whole thing in the summer sale. FFB is def it's weakest point imo, also def the weakest of the "serious" sims.

I experiment a lot with settings and used a trick that works best for me with AC and AMS2. Up the overall gain to 100% in the driver and leave the rest at 100 - 100 - 0 - 100. Than lower the FFB strength in game to about 65-70. That should give you about the same overall ffb strength. You can lower with the maximum ffb strength a bit in game, too.

Than try ffb linearity between 60 and 75 and play with the FFB multiplier of each car to your liking.

It got so much better for me. Still far from perfect but the key settings are leaving 100 gain in the driver and lowering FFB strength and maximum force in game.

Don't forget to press ST+Mode on the original PS wheel (or the equivalent on add on wheels) when you're racing to turn the base fan to 100%.

Hope that helps. Sorry for not posting pics or the config files, I'm on my phone.

 

I have to disagree. I drove various cars in track days (nothing fancy) with and without ABS and you can definitely feel the brake pedal shake (I don't have hydraulic pedals anymore, bummer) and the wheel shake and then feel "loose" when the tyres finally lock.

Even if that wasn't the case, it's a sim and if you're counting on your vision and hearing alone you're screwed. The feeling sensation is MUCH faster and you can act accordingly without having to think and process an audio-visual stimulus.

 

Shut your eyes and see how fast you go then. You are aware that light and sound travel very quickly. Your brain will process that information much quicker than a signal sent to a wheel which then has to produce a force which you feel with your hands, make sense of with your brain and then react to. FFB is by its definition, old news.

And if indeed you do need the physical stimulus to drive then how can it be that some players can be fast, much faster than most, using keyboards, mouse and even home made disability aids? The answer is you are wrong.

 

Regarding keyboard/mouse, the key to being quick is a lot of practice that makes you memorize what you need to do and when, and execute all inputs right at the perfect moment. With a wheel, you can be less precise with your inputs because you have more control over them, and you also rely on force feedback to correct your inputs, not only on visual/audio feedback.

Regarding human vision, it's not the quickest sense. You can even test it yourself with online reaction tests. Your reaction to audio сues will likely be faster than to visual ones (~50ms difference for me, for example). We also do not consciously process every feedback, after some practice it goes automatically, you can call it "muscle memory".

How big FFB lag is actually?

 

I didn't say that one does not need vision to drive a car IRL or in a sim. I just said that muscular memory is processed by our somatosensory system, which processes external stimuli A LOT faster than our visual cortex system. As implied above by Maskerader, vision takes a lot of brain processing power and visual reaction time is slow af compared to other senses. Also, our visual systems makes a lot of assumptions to work properly and is easily deceived.

And using disjunctive syllogism and partially ordered set, one can assume from your argument that FFB is completely unnecessary to drive a car reasonably fast. That's the only conclusion applying simple logical form to your statement. Considering empirical evidence and simple knowledge of scientifically known facts about human sensory modalities, your conclusion is wrong.

I know you don't think that FFB is useless, I just couldn't pass the opportunity to have a friendly discussion.

Edit: by "reasonably fast" I meant that overwhelming majority of all esport racing sim professionals and chart topping leaderboards players in any sim use systems with FFB wheels/bases. Not to mention racing IRL, of course.

 

About 16.6 milliseconds on most sims, from what learnt from people DIYing FFB bases.

 

Just saying that a lot of people does falsely(!) think that a FFB wheel makes you faster.
Or at least is mandatory if you want to top some of the LBs.

If you check the TT LBs here in Raceroom then a guy BrunoBæ does top some of the LBs in the FR-US and some of the high powered formula cars.
And he has often published that he doesnt use a FFB wheel.
The same guy can be found on the TT LBs in AMS2 driving the F-ULtimate Gen1/2 - and also here he is topping some of the lists.
Furthermore I can see some game pad users (non FFB) topping (or at least pretty high) in the same cars.

EDIT: Oh sorry I didnt see this. Makes my remark a bit obsolete