Traction control issue in frustration in GT3

Discussion in 'Car and Track Knowledge Base' started by Gansa75, Jun 4, 2020.

  1. Gansa75

    Gansa75 New Member

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    Hi guys ..

    I'm running into problems driving the 911's and the Mclaren as well in the GT3 class (they are the only ones i purchased anyway in the GT3 class .. )

    Apparently my car is spinning a lot when downshifting (while cornering ) for some reason
    that results in the wheels locking up and the TC led blinking, the rear breaks out and the car ends up going off track and for a couple of seconds the throttle pedal no longer responds to any inputs until the car is at a full stop , no chance whatoever of recovering mid slide like with the WTRC cars .. so once the car starts to go, it gone basically..

    Basically I'm trying to rule out the problem is between the seat and steering wheel :rolleyes:
    So it might be dumb to downshift while cornering but these gt3 cars are pretty much the ONLY ones that suffer from locking up completely while doing it ..


    the RUF in GT2 doesnt give me any problems with my driving style neither the Canhard R51 , the Aguila , the Hyundai I30 in WRTC2019 (the class that introduced me to snap oversteer and frustrated the crap out of me in the beginning as well ) and the Lotus in GT4

    I have played with the TC settings from going 100% to 0% and by adjusting TCpresets mid lap
    but on the hockenheim ring at the Mobil1 curve for example i kept on spinning out .. unless i took that turn like a granny .. :D

    So .. do I need to change my driving style with these cars ?
    is it a setup issue what am i missing here .. :mad:

    all input appreciated
     
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  2. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Well-Known Member

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    Does it become better with a blip while downshifting?

    Sounds pretty unusual, as if the car catches drag torque while downshifting.
     
  3. Gansa75

    Gansa75 New Member

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    I'm using autoclutch .. I havent tried to rev up while down shifting
    I dont do the heel toe downshifting thing , left foot on the braking , rfoot on the throttle ..
    I'm not michael flatley doing riverdance just yet :)
    I have a G29 so I got a clutch .. but i have never driven with manual transmission (well irl i do .. ) but not in simracing
    i never felt the need for that with the paddle shifters and all ..

    also in other carclasses there is a safety in the transmission prohibiting you to downshift too fast idk but i dont feel its that kind of an issue
     
  4. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Well-Known Member

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    No, that's not what i meant. You can do a blip with the right foot on the gas, while braking with the left. No need for clutch
    The autoclutch should be definetly in use for a GT3 car, this is by design. No heel&toe needed with these cars.
    It was meant as a test, to see, if something is wrong with the downshift procedure of R3E, because normally, you shouldn't need to blip at all, while keeping stability, if everything works correctly.

    If something changes in stability, when giving a short blip while downshifting (not using the clutch at all, though), it could be, that something is off with the autoblip/downshift mechanism and it doesn't blip enough, for example.

    An example where this happened: GTR2 back in the days had autoblip when autoclutch was activated and no mods in use, it wasn't blipping enough, so it compromised stability while downshifting. So you always had to blip manually a bit, to get the best performance out of it, despite assistance should do the job.
    (But with N.A.P. Mod and in reality, most of the N-GT and GT had no autoblip btw.).
     
  5. Gansa75

    Gansa75 New Member

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    Well I'll certainly give blipping a try then .. i never felt the need to do it in all the other cars ..
    its kind of strange that not more people are complaining about this then , so thats why I presumed it was a problem between the chair and the pedals (in this case) .. i could try to capture a replay but OBS is giving my pc a hard time .. read .. lots of BSODs
    but I'll get back to you after testing this evening
     
  6. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Well-Known Member

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    Like mentioned, it should absolutely not be the case, that blipping is required for a GT3 car.

    If it is, something could be strange.

    I'm not encountering your issue though. Downshifts always bring nervosity to cars, even with the higher electronic refinement.

    Try lowering TC to 3. The TC also can totally kill your ability to catch the GT3, if set too high.
     
  7. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    You definitely should not need to blip with GT3 cars as they have an autoblipper fitted as standard.

    Downshifting while cornering isn't a great technique. When you downshift you create additional engine braking, that will cause a weight shift forwards and momentarily unweight the rear tyres. I'd guess this is what is causing the loss of traction.

    I haven't noticed the behaviour you describe when driving normally.

    The V4 tyre on the GT3 class may need some more polish in certain areas so that could be a factor.
     
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  8. Goffik

    Goffik Well-Known Member

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    I actually drove both the 911 and the two McLarens on Monday. I can't say that I noticed anything untoward with the way they were handling during downshifts. I always tend to downshift too early so I'm well aware that it can cause wheel-lock and spins in various classes, but it's not a problem I've ever had in the GTR 3s. I usually drive with TC at 1-2 at most.

    Is this something you've noticed as of today? I know there's nothing in the patch about GTR 3s but it's not unheard of for something to be broken accidentally by a patch.
     
  9. wesker6664

    wesker6664 Member

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    @ Ganza : maybe you're downshifting too fast ? Some of these cars have more engine braking than others especially at high revs, so it would be advisable to downshift a bit after slowing down the car
     
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  10. Vale

    Vale Active Member

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    Which McLaren, the Mp4-12 or 650? I get that with the 650 since the last update whereas the Mp4-12 is super settled.

    I had put it down to the adjustments to tyre temps in the last patch. Going into the last 3 corners at A1 Ring for example is where it manifests itself the most.

    Having just finished testing all the GT3s at Raceroom Bridge, I had similar turn in issues with the 911 2019 too, it was hard to even set a laptime and at best I got a 1.12.3 compared with 1.11.6 in the Camaro or 1.11.2 in the MP4-12. I need to test more with individual cars but it does seem some are not reacting as well to V4 tyres as others.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
  11. Gansa75

    Gansa75 New Member

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    Its the MCLAREN 650S btw ,
    I will take all your advices to heart and try to brake earlier before the turn and try to stick to one gear while turning and then try to downshift into lower gear more at the trackout phase of the turn for better acceleration i guess
    I'm going to see wether i can capture the phenomenon in some sort of a replay and use OBS or something like and post it ...
     
  12. Vale

    Vale Active Member

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    Ok, so that makes two of us. I didn´t complain before as I thought it was a consequence of lower tyre temps after the last patch. I need to do some more testing to see if it goes away as a race progresses but this was definitely not an issue up until either the BOP change to that car or the tyre update to all Gt3´s - I have a feeling it was the latter. The 650s was super stable before - even massively understeery but had super traction and could go one or two TC steps lower than a lot of other front engined cars. The MP4-12 seems fine but I don´t own it so can´t say what it is like on other tracks apart from RR bridge.

    If it helps, I had the issue mainly in slow to medium speed tight corners like the first two at Spa after the straight, and A1 Ring going into Lauda curve especially. Rindt is similar but that is a tricky one in most cars.
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2020
  13. christo.joubert1

    christo.joubert1 New Member

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    I have same issue with GT3 cars - all of them. Used to be my favourite series - but is now un-driveable and extremely frustrating a not fun any more at all.

    The will spin for nothing - I am convinced it is to do with the GT3 tire temp profile not correct.

    Wish they would stop changing the GT3 cars everytime they do it gets worse and worse
     
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  14. Gansa75

    Gansa75 New Member

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    well .. thx for the input guys .. ive been experimenting on mid ohio to lay a leaderboard lap down .. and its fubar ..i couldnt even get on the clock without driving like a granny .. no matter what i did TCwise .. i allways ended up spinning out .. even at one point i took a curb on the apex not even turning in that hard and not too fast at all before the actual leaderboard lap began lol.. but the slight bump unsettled the car .. and even that resulted in a spin i wish i could record my session with OBS but i keep getting BSODs .. but its unsettling .. lucky enough there are some races in gt2 class instead .. but if its stays like this .. no more GT3 for me .. ill have a look if it affects my porche 911 GT3R in ADAC has the same problems .. then ill be asking a refund for my 3 911s lol
     
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  15. Vale

    Vale Active Member

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    Try an older car if you have one and see if it is better. You can test drive them all free on RR Bridge. None of the older cars have this handling characteristic and neither did I find it in the M6 or C7 Callaway.
     
  16. christo.joubert1

    christo.joubert1 New Member

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    My older M6 GT3 was amazing - same car set default setup now is undriveable. It spins at the sligtest bump or imperfection - this is only in the last 2 days.

    My McLaren does the same and so does the Bentley...

    If its not fixed soon I will also ask for a refund.
     
  17. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Well-Known Member

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    Guys i have tested it right now and can see the issue, but calling it "undrivable" is a huge exaggeration. It is definetly harder and something under pitch and shifting is making the cars nervous.

    I want to make a report, though, because i also think, there is maybe some advice needed.

    @Alex Hodgkinson

    Problem: GT3 cars spin out unrecoverable under certain circumstances, even if not overdoing it that much.

    Test track: Zolder
    Cars: Porsche 911 GT3-R (2019), McLaren 650S (occurs also with others)
    Default setup in use. Normal free practice
    Target laptimes around 1:30.5 and below. No hotlap pace, medium range fuel.

    Especially in the Porsche GT3-R (2019) i notice some kind of "drag torque", making the car a bit prone to provoke some slight "shift lock", it mostly happens from 3rd to 2nd gear. (Also noticeable in the McLaren with higher revs)

    Also it seems, GT3 became a bit more pitch sensitive, especially noticeable under light braking and bumps with follow-up of cornering, leading into a very very sensitive behaviour, even under slight steering lock. Harder braking with explosive initiation is pretty fine, though. I really miss a bumpstop setup option right now. ^^'

    I will try to do some changes on suspension stiffness to make it more stable under slight pitch, maybe making parts of the front a bit stiffer, while adjusting rake will do its job.
    EDIT: Lowering rear, making slow bump and rebound stiffer at the front/softer at the rear a bit, increasing pre-load a bit and adjusting brake bias to my liking shows some improvement. Can be still very edgy in mid-speed cornering.

    I think, it also feels, like tyres have a slightly higher drop-off in bite, while slide situations with uneven track and pitching the car occurs, but just guesstimating here.

    I hope, this is somewhat helpful to understand the impression, some users might get.
    -------
    Btw. guys, please, it's not necessary, to compel the devs to fix a problem faster by mentioning the refund over and over again. You can try to ask for a refund also directly, or report back the issues and ask for advice or even a fix, if possible.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
  18. Jota Ele

    Jota Ele Active Member

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    The way how it lose the traction now for me feels better, I can use less TC not because tyres has more traction (that also), the control of the slip it's more predictable and modulable with the throttle.

    After 12 days since the gt3 tyres update and after 8000km 650/day of average doing complete races with all gt3 cars newest and olders and I'm totally convinced that this tyres update has been a great improvement, I like it much more now.
     
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  19. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Well-Known Member

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    That's also my impression. As long, as it doesn't reach the point, where it "insta-bins", it is very much drivable on throttle. The overall behaviour became more edgy on the limit, though. This might need some adapting for some old habits. (Or even fine tuning on the tyre model)

    Btw., i find the newer GT3 physics pretty similar to the ACC cars, to be honest (for me, that's a positive).
    Like Niels Heusinkveld stated in one of his videos: "It's also the expectation of the user" (or somewhat similar)...so i can't speak for others.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
  20. Arthur Spooner

    Arthur Spooner Well-Known Member

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    I also noticed this change in behaviour right away after the tyre physics update recently. For some odd reason it helped me to slightly stiffen the slow dampers on the heavier end of the car. I mean +1 click at the front slow dampers (bump AND rebound) for front engined cars, +1 at the rear for mid engined cars and +2 at the rear for Porsches. Maybe it's some kind of placebo, but it felt a lot more stable for me. But I'm not really sure what change on the tyres could be connected to the bumpers in such a way. Maybe sidewall stiffness or something? I don't know... :confused:
     
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