"We are official now"

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by keanos, Oct 5, 2018.

  1. keanos

    keanos Active Member

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    https://141198.seu2.cleverreach.com/m/11042926/1390238-a88c3b1920ea45752dd733245945a71f

    Quote:
    DMSB erkennt SimRacing als Motorsport-Disziplin an
    SimRacing gilt ab sofort als offizielle Motorsport-Disziplin. Das hat das Präsidium des Deutschen Motor Sport Bundes auf seiner Sitzung am 
4. Oktober beschlossen. Damit öffnet sich der DMSB für die digitale Variante des Motorsports und sorgt gleichzeitig für eine Professionalisierung des Sports mit Rennsport-Simulatoren. „In keiner anderen Sportart liegen Realität und digitale Simulation so nah beieinander wie im Motorsport”, erklärt Dr. Gerd Ennser, Präsidiumsmitglied des DMSB und künftig auch verantwortlich für SimRacing. „Die Darstellung der Rennstrecken und die Einstellungsmöglichkeiten der Fahrzeuge sind so realistisch, dass viele Motorsportler SimRacing längst als Trainingsmöglichkeit und zur Vorbereitung etwa auf unbekannte Rennstrecken nutzen. Nun wollen wir den nächsten Schritt machen, indem wir SimRacing als vollwertige Motorsport-Disziplin anerkennen und damit den Einstieg in den Motorsport auch für jüngere Menschen erleichtern.”
     
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  2. Christian Göpfert

    Christian Göpfert Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    DMSB recognizes SimRacing as a motorsport discipline
    SimRacing is now an official motorsport discipline [in Germany]. This was decided by the Presidium of the German Motor Sport Association at its meeting on 4 October. This opens the DMSB to the digital version of motorsport and at the same time ensures the professionalisation of sport with racing simulators. "In no other sport are reality and digital simulation so close to each other as in motorsport", explains Dr. Gerd Ennser, member of the DMSB Executive Committee and in future also responsible for SimRacing. "The representation of the race tracks and the adjustment possibilities of the vehicles are so realistic that many motorsport enthusiasts have long used SimRacing as a training option, for example for preparing for unknown race tracks. Now we want to take the next step by recognising SimRacing as a fully-fledged motorsport discipline and thus making it easier for younger people to enter motorsport."

    Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator
     
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    Last edited: Oct 6, 2018
  3. GooseCreature

    GooseCreature Well-Known Member

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    Well I'm British, so couldn't pop a German passport in the post to me asap, as the reasons for staying here are drifting out into the Atlantic faster than we can paddle, plus I've always wanted to be a professional something for once in my life.
     
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  4. Patrick Schilhan

    Patrick Schilhan Well-Known Member

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    wow … da sind jetzt also alle "Get Real" Piloten offizielle Rennfahrer, lol :D. Da möchte jetzt aber auch meine digitale Fahrerlizenz des DMSB haben ...
     
  5. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to swim against the mainstream, but this and the claim that e-sports is "sports", are most absurd. Its pure financial and economic interests driving this idiocy. Totally nuts, reason went over the moon, heading outward into deep space. Whats next? Facebooking as an olympic discipline?
     
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  6. sbtm

    sbtm Well-Known Member

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    what's your problem? they clearly state that they're trying to get new talents into real driving through the professional e-sport. They don't intend to address the casual hobby simracer. Simracing e-sports acts more like an entry tool to the world of motorsports since real and digital motorsport have much in common like strict rules, sportsmanship, understanding of driving dynamics, race tactics, mental and physical training etc.
    And the professional part (hobby racers like us never will see) is the only thing that will be seen as a new part of motorsport. Things evolve, you should accept that.

    Did you visit the simracingexpo this year? It was full like hell, also during the race events in iracing and AC.

    It's also the best thing now for the motorsport to get new talents aside from the kart sport. Many simracers are interested in a race driver career and the door has now opened for them to get a seat in real cars.
     
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  7. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    This is this and that is that. Thats in principle all there is to say on this folly.

    "Tolerance" and "attitude" have nothing to do with determining the decisive difference between this and that. Getting new motor sport talents by this policy is a strawman argument. It makes as much sense as claiming that having played a lot of Olympic Summer Games for Amiga or early PCs brought new talents into real athletics.

    And what has the Sim Expo to do with this...?! Its a computer game event.

    I love flight sims, since over twenty years. I like racing sims, especially since release of AC. But I do not mistake them for doing the real thing. the diriving motivation behind this decision they made is coin milking, plain and simple. Like many sim modules for flightsims try to sell better by adding "Pro" to their title. Its about marketing, not about "sports".

    Sport is when you go out there and spend sweat and some amount of pain on the real world. ;) Playing a game on PC is not the same like practicing that game'S sport in reality. That would be as if claiming that having lunch is a sport because after eating you do a walk in the park to help digestion. I know I know, many fans will say that is an old fashioned thinking and an old argument. But it still is valid and very good thinking and argument.
     
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  8. Patrick van der Meulen

    Patrick van der Meulen Well-Known Member

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    I think it’s a normal evolution in this era of possibilities in simulations. Recognition of simracing as an additional discipline in motorsports by motorsport associations would help top-competitions to get way more exposure and will help to professionalize the discipline further.
     
  9. sbtm

    sbtm Well-Known Member

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    ok it seems you just don't get the idea.

    Oh and you really compare a game for Amiga with a modern simulator game? The one is just a game where you hammer a button, the other one is a training tool (yes, real drivers already use it like that) for learning tracks, setups, driving techniques, mental endurance, concentration and focusing.... a bit more than hammering some buttons for an Amiga game don't you think?

    I won't try again to explain it.

    (oh do you know that some race drivers already emerged from sim racing years ago?)

    And i asked if you attended the simracingexpo because it wasn't just a computer game event. You would understand if you were there.
     
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  10. Nico Kunze

    Nico Kunze Well-Known Member

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    You should see and smell me after an intense race ;) and while i wouldnt call simracing sport i have no problem considering it a discipline of motorsports
    And as stated before there have been quite a few drivers who went from simracing to pro and while of course a huge part of it is just pr stuff if this new classification means more people get the chance to get into non virtual racing without having to spend a fortune i think thats great.
    At the end youre probably still gonna think what you wanna think just like i do but it was worth a try :D
     
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  11. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I absolutely get the idea, even from the original text, which is my mother tongue. Its just that I do not agree with what you describe as "the idea". In fact what you said is just a part of that German quote's content.

    I think you know quite well what I was after. But okay, here is the update version from 2018 for you: Playing First Person Tennis VR with Oculus does not compare to the sports in playing real tennis. Not physically, not technically. Tennis is almost a complete sport, like swimming it trains almost all musckle sin yoru body. Playing Katana X in VR does not make you a real sword fighter - I can assure you, I swung Japanese swords for over 25 years. You need more strength than that Samurai movie made it look like.

    I am relieved to hear that. ;)

    Yes. In how far does playing a game alone make them race drivers in the real world? I was fanatical with Boeing cockpit simulators for many years. Do you think I would perform better in a Lufthansa training? I doubt that. I know some stuff from their entry level - thats all. I also played ArmA. Do you think I would perform better as a soldier - and especially would it increase my sports stamina, would it make me physically more enduring, train my musle, my cardio-vascular system, my fitness, and would my health benefit from it? Because that is what sport usually is claimed by doctors to do: it improves your biological variables and has benefits for your health status. Sitting all day long and playing via gampad or wheel or keyboard, is no sports, and it certainly is NOT benefittary to your health. Even if you do some sports between sessions to avoid pain in your back and neck and fingers and wrists from all that frozen sitting and button pressing. Because as I said before: eating is no sport just because you do a walk after lunch to help your digestion.

    Oh, I understood that, don't worry. Its just that I do not buy what you try to read into it. What you seem to take as so serious, this enforced linkage between sim games and simulated objects in real world practicing, to me is nothing else but a marketing hype. This is not about recruiting driver talents. Its about selling more games.

    And yes, I do know that real drivers of younger generations use sim games to get a bit prepared for the next track's layout. But you can go and ask them if they think that already is the sports in their sports. I predict that most will tell you: "What is the sports in that?"

    Try a rollercoaster in VR. You still do not know what it means to rollercoast, you cannot feel it. Have a 360° video of a parachute jump. Its impressive in VR, I have seen it, I have an Oculus. But its not even close to the real deal.

    Link yourself to the machines of a sports institute that track your heart rate, blood pressure, muscular tonus, oxygen and CO2 exchange rate, have doctors documenting over some weeks how your pulse goes down and your blood pressure, your how muscles build up, the pain in your back maybe goes away, and you normalise your weight. If you can document lasting changes for the better in all this because you sit in your cabin and study that track and know all turns and handle that wheel and do so 8 hours a day - then report back indeed and we talk again.

    Not earlier. ;) Because defining computer games as "sports" is just for the lazy who find it difficult to get their back off that sofa and do some real work to bring it to the prestige of being called a "professional sportsman". LOL. Sorry, but I do not take a computer game for more than a computer game, like a chat bot is not a replacement for a real friend.

    Karpov was a chess champion who was known to loose up to 14 kilograms during a 190-14 days tournament. I am a chess player myself. In physiology i once learned that the brain consumes around 20% of the energy in the body's energetic homeostasis. And yet I am hesitent to call even chess a "sports". How much more hesitent must I be to allow that classification for playing computer games!

    And all that lack of physical feedback your body would suffer from in the real world! While such resistences from the real world'S physics are what trains your body and is the sports element in the sport while your body tries to cope with them! ;)

    Talking metabolism effects, anyone?

    Here is the deal. E-Sports is a fiction, a marketing trick. Those gamers are no athletes. What they are , are professional gamers. Not more, not less. Nothing derogatory or minimising in that.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2018
  12. sbtm

    sbtm Well-Known Member

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    jesus... you're absolutely overshooting. You really still don't get it?

    You just define sports with physical effort, but Poker is a sport, throwing darts is a sport (even VR Tennis is more physical), shooting is a sport... everything with lower physical effort than (professional) simracing .. and professional simracing isn't considered a sport? It's sport when it's done competitve and has nothing to do with sweating... yeah it's more sport when you sweat more. Some people sweat while they climb stairs.. is that sport now?

    They now create a competitive environment and take the "casual" out of it with, so it can be considered as a sport. When a simracer is good enough he can be schooled in a real race car, but at this point he already knows the BASICS you also learn in kart sport. Of course driving in a sim doesn't make you a race driver, you must think we are dumb that you mentioned this.

    I don't know why you fight the idea of having another entry point into motorsport for young interested people.

    And your last sentence shows me you have absolutely no idea what is going on in professional simracing teams. You always just refer to the casual racer at home "doing sports" now when firing up his Assetto Corsa. They don't! You should learn to separate these two things.
     
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  13. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    I don't. I just dont like getting the wool pulled over my eyes. I know that professional gamers play 8, 10 hours a day, 5-7 days per week. That alone does not make their game a sport already, even if they do some excercising for compensation/balancing. Eating is no sports just because you have a walk after lunch to help your digestion.

    That Poker is a sports, is being hotly debated as wlel, btw. Your opinion is not the final say oin it. To me, professionally playing poker is no sport, but playing poker professionally. Like I said I even have doubt on chess being a sport although I play it myself and know it a little bit.

    Well, this has started to run in cycles. I'm out.
     
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    Last edited: Oct 7, 2018
  14. Patrick van der Meulen

    Patrick van der Meulen Well-Known Member

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    100% totally of-topic. But this sentence was a beauty to create a little joke with.
    To Hamilton, professionally playing Bottas to 2nd driver is no sport, but playing Bottas professionally.

    And on-topic. both @Skybird and @sbtm have valid points. It is complex matter. What’s defining a true sport? Both philosophically and practically highly debatable stuff.
     
  15. MattStone

    MattStone Well-Known Member

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    From the Oxford Dictionary
    "an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment."

    Well I can honestly say that with the FFB level on my new Fanatic base I'd say it qualifies as physical exertion LOL

    But seriously the physical exertion aspect of the definition is debatable but I guess that's why they generally refer to gaming and sim competitions as E-Sports. I'm totally comfortable with that :)
     
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  16. Christian Göpfert

    Christian Göpfert Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    Whereas real motor sports... :cool:
     
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    Last edited: Oct 7, 2018
  17. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    Sitting in a beach bar, slurping a longdrink and doing babe-watching, is sports, if done with a professional passion.

    :p

    If you trade comments on babes with a buddy sitting with you, its even a team sport.

    Anf sihsing, fishing is a sport, some say. Hehe, should I comment on that? Not everything you do competitively, by that alone already is turned into a sport. That is absurd.

    Serious, a definition of sports I would agree with, I found it on a German website:

    Sport is a term that refers to physical exercises and body-cult. The goal is to strive for maximum performance in these, and comparison in the competition.

    As a sport in the broad sense, all types of physical exercises are described in whatever form. Like above, but less ambitious, more private.

    Both are non-professionally/non-commercial.

    For both definitions, sport is physical, and does not pursue an economic goal. Sport is run for the sake of sport. For this reason, the DOSB (German Olympic Sports Association) has once excluded the promotion of chess as a sport, on the grounds that it does not include "the athelete's own motor activity".

    Also, professional football, Formula 1 and many more news about professional sports in the sports section of the newspaper, are not a sport in the true sense. Somebody calls himself a "professional athlete"as soon as he earns money with what he does. At this moment, however, the sport becomes "work/job", because sport is never on the making of money, but by definition serves only an end in itself. Like a hobby you do for yourself and earn no money with, is a hobby. If you make money with it, it becomes work, and an additional job. You can be experienced in your hobby, but professionalization and hobby are two terms that exclude each other.


    Note that there was once a long and bitter conflict on the exclusion of professional athletes form the Olympic games, before the show indeed became a commercialized show, and pulling money from it and getting big corporations in, became more important than the sport itself.

    And btw, since nobody here so far has mentioned it, the label of being a sport was sought by gamers for much more profane reasons anyway. The official declaration as a sport opens the door to certain state-funded financial aids and money promotions by the tax payer, also tax reliefs for formalised clubs and associations, and state aid for the national industry related to it. this was made clear repeatedly in videos and texts I saw on this over the past months and years. Its about tax reliefs and state subventions for which being officially recognised as a sport and being formally organised as a club or association by the legal rules for that, are preconditions. Compares a bit to the German "Filmförderung". I do not like such schemes , and I do not like state subventions in general, and do not like distorting the market (which subventions always mean and intend) , and this even at the tax payers' costs.
     
    Last edited: Oct 7, 2018
  18. Patrick van der Meulen

    Patrick van der Meulen Well-Known Member

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    That would make me a top-athlete :D
     
  19. GooseCreature

    GooseCreature Well-Known Member

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    So the geezer all the F1 teams employ to set the car up for the next track and try out new kit is just a gamer that gets paid well?
    Why do pro drivers spend so much time in a Simulator? to waste it, no, to fine tune their craft in an environment that is close to the real thing as possible, it's called muscle memory. Not to mention getting their heads around each years steering wheel, what does what and where it is, with the limited testing they get Simulators become more and more important by the season.
    Not only don't you get it, you sound awfully bitter to me, like you were far too old to compete and would rather others shouldn't have the opportunity! :p
    Someone who professes to love Sim racing but wishes it to remain the same and not progress, confuses me to say the least.
    If people want to call other people professional because they are at the top of their game, then what's the problem?
    Just try to think of it like the Dakar Rally, it started with cars, added bikes, then quads and now even the bloke who used to fix the bloody things, races his truck to the next waypoint. It's called evolution baby!
     
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  20. Barracuda318

    Barracuda318 Member

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    just because sim racing is used as a training tool for real racing does not make it a sport
    RACING is a sport, sim racing is a game, a game that SIMULATES a sport
    nothing wrong with sim racing, nothing wrong with games, nothing wrong with sports
    but come on now, reality check here, lets not confuse the two,
    and for extra credit
    Q: poker is a
    A: _ _ _ _