Something has to change in ranked MP - this is'nt fun anymore.

If the esssence of what we all want is not to receive incident points for just being in the wrong place at the wrong time then is it possible to only award incident points to the driver that hits the the other driver?
... and would that be possible to then scale those points with relative speed to each other of the vehicles involved in the 'knock/collision'?

1. Sure this would not help when it comes to brake testers but if a more rigourous system to get drivers into the higher ranked servers was implemented it would be relatively fair to assume those drivers are 'serious' and would not deliberately do such behaviour
2. Something like this fairly penalise the driver at fault whether that fault is deliberatly or accidently not the driver on the recieving end
3. When it comes to door banging racing then both vehicles speed is similar so the incident points would be minimal/reduced and fairer - this is where a vehicle class multipler could be implemented so when expected/accepted in tin tops it is allowed but for Formula class it is not

Can we also consider why we receive incident points for just making a mistake with no other cars involved, i do not think this is fair
I understand it is to stop corner cutting to gain time but is that not what the slow down penalty is for?

As for cars leaving the track could there be a track perimeter implemented? end up over that and its a DNF or a pitlane restart. Keep inside the perimeter then just the slow down penalty or something like engine defaults to a less power map... basically some sort of power impedment that lets you keep moving and rejoin but not stupidily fast. Although i do not see this being such a problem in higher ranked servers with a more stringent qualification rule set to get on to them

 

My point is not about saying ACC system is the one to be copy as a best reference , just to look at what is done and used by other game, and what work or doesn't.
If you're looking only for the minority of wreckers, you'll find them anywhere, even in iracing...

As you say, you'll not change this kind of people who are here only to screw other drivers (even if you ban them from the game, they'll come back anyway...)
It's more about teaching players that don't have the knowledge of fair racing. Those who just want to play a game, like they play Mario Kart, and maybe just don't know how they should behave so the game can be fun for everybody. Rewarding those players will incite them in the good direction, and grown the overall level of the field.
If the only think you have is penalty points (or worth a DQ) for any contact you have, even the one you're not faulty I don't feel it's a good way to push player to be clean. Some may think: "screw it, if I should get a DQ so be it at least I will know why".
TBH, this one came to my mind during one race I had to pass a much slower player but with a very very very aggressive defense, pushing me of track each time I was on it's side, at the end he mad a dirty manouvre that put both of us of track, he ended up spinning, not me. Maybe for him it was a fair fight I don't know...


I'll end here because I don't think I have more to add.
I don't dislike the actual system, I only think it can be slightly tweaked to feel less unfair in some situation. Otherwise I'll admit that ranked server in R3E (and also in ACC TBH) made me back to the online racing in a more regular way I expected.

 

I will leave my small opinion.

It seems to me that the problem is that people don't appreciate racing - the damage in the first place. That is minimal, so dirty drivers are not afraid to take risks, they will fight for the position to the end, because even if they push you into the gravel, they have no damage and continue racing. I often see a dive bomb as it is almost safe and it is used. For this reason safe raiting is secondary.

There is no problem driving with different drivers, both fast and slow, but we need to teach the users driving etiquette and not give a reason for the silly urge to arrive 1 more position by any means. In confirmation of my words I can say one thing - look at when people after an accident leave the server. Often it happens even without damage. And all because it is not punishable in any way.

In brief: the priority of safery rating should be higher than the rating. Damage should be higher, the level of penalties too.

 

Anyone thought about returning the penalty points gained from contact with another driver if they get DQ'd?

 

As good as it sounds, it's still exploitable. We don't want to make some crazy battle royale racing out of R3E, do we?

 

I hear you, and I'm not saying that ACC's solution is bad. I'm genuinely asking whether their system of making people drive some clean laps in single player improves the overall quality of races because I have no hands-on experience with ACC's multiplayer. I'm just saying that, judging by some online comments I've read, it doesn't seem to do much in terms of increasing race quality and/or preventing wrecking which would raise the question why introduce sth like this if it doesn't improve things, but of course those online comments never show the whole picture.

As stated before, we've tested a blaming system extensively when the ranking system was being created and during those tests we simply found too many fringe cases where we were able to trick the system into penalising the wrong player. But fi there's ways to improve the current system, the devs will look into them.

 

How?
If there is a wrecker in the server he will quickly be eliminated and all the people wronged will regain their lost points. It just rights some wrongs, with no cost to anyone still in the race.
We're trying to improve the ranking system, I don't care if the rules come from Cluedo, if they prevent getting DQ'd by lap 2, when you've done nothing wrong then I'm in.
If innocent people keep getting thrown under the bus, they will move on and drive elsewhere. There has to be some form of proficiency test for people to improve and climb the ladder, as it stands at the moment (yes bloody beta, I know) there is no separation or more like little, separating the Wheat from the Chaff. Plus I like the slower cars, yet; to race them I have to enter the bear pit that is Rookies, somewhere to really flex the Anglo Saxon but rarely get clean racing and most definitely putting ones rank in jeopardy.

 

We've also already suggested something similar and the devs' main concern was that with such a system in place people can gang up against sb they dislike. Everyone gives him a punt each until he gets dq'ed and on top they get rewarded for bullying sb out of a server by getting the incident points reimbursed.

Hard to say how real of a threat that scenario would be but it would be thinkable. On the other hand people could already do that right now (at the risk of having to keep some points but for some I guess that'd be a tollerable price for bullying/trolling someone), yet so far I haven't heard of sth like this happening.

 

It doesn't. All it requires you to do is do 4 clean laps in SP mode. Doesn't state how fast they have to be, so you can trundle along in 2nd gear if you wish. It doesn't say anything about your capability to negotiate the track under racing-conditions.
I like the concept of it as such, but right now all it is is a grind to do four clean laps for absolutely no real purpose, and it's generally (based on the streamers I follow) regarded as kinda silly.
Introducing it into a game like R3E with 30+ tracks would be folly.

That aside, I'm not sure I agree that anything has to change in the first place. Maybe I've just been lucky, but I don't see the driving standards as being especially poor on the ranked servers. Well, free-content Rookie servers aside.
Yes, you do occasionally run into the odd bird who has no idea what to do, but they're pretty easy to spot and thus avoid.
And yes, occasionally you do get taken out by an idiot. But so what? It happens, and it's not the end of the world.
And despite never having had an incident-free race, I've still got a Rep of 92. And not once have I ever been close to being DQ'ed.
So I'm genuinely puzzled as to this public outcry.

 

[QUOTE="GooseCreature, post: 219188, member: 1467"Plus I like the slower cars, yet; to race them I have to enter the bear pit that is Rookies, somewhere to really flex the Anglo Saxon but rarely get clean racing and most definitely putting ones rank in jeopardy.[/QUOTE]
I really like the new VW Gr.2, but it`s stuck in multiclass with the Touring Classics, which seem to go off-road at virtually every corner. I`d really like to see this car in its own server on one of the shorter tracks. Better still, lets have more Gr2 cars...

 

Not that I disagree with any of the above, especially the need for more Gr.2 cars....
But one fun side-effect of this weeks multi-class is the unique sensation of out-qualifying a BMW M3 in a Scirocco.

 

I havent read the whole thread so sorry if its been said .

One thing that i find is that the ability of other drivers can sometimes unfairly penalise you. If I jump in a server and there are a number of drivers that have a lower rep/rating , maybe because they are new or haven't bothered with rank before. If these guys are considrably faster than me which is a distinct fact as i am a mid pack racer , they will beat me and by a wide margin depending on the combo and my ranking can be affected dissproportionately .

 

Dumb question. In mixed class races will your rating change if you beat or are beaten by someone with another class of car or is it only dependent on the players with same class cars?

I understand reputation will as a collision is a collision.

 

Rating is based on your own class only.

 

It's not 'unfair' nor does it affect you 'disproportionately'.
Yes, you'll lose points in the above example, and after a few races you'll have gained them back. Just like the fast newcomers will skyrocket in the beginning, and then settle at their natural level.

The thing that seems to cause a lot of grief is that people keep thinking of their rating as a static value, or something that can only go up.
And it's just not. It's an ELO rating, and as such it is going to fluctuate up and down. It's supposed to do so.
Take a look at this for example:

This is the ELO rating of the chess grand-master Magnus Carlsen.
Notice that even after he's reached his 'natural' plateau of around 2850, the actual value fluctuates up and down as he plays games. Occasionally he takes a fairly big hit, and then his rank steadies back to what it should be.
It's simply the nature of an ELO ranked system. Completely natural, and working as designed.

So stop thinking about your rating as something that is to be protected at all costs. You will lose points regularly throughout your sim-career, and since R3E is (at least currently) working without seeding, occasionally the swings will be somewhat on the larger side. Doesn't mean you're suddenly a worse driver, it just means that it'll settle back to it's actual value after a few more races.

And finally, it's a just rating. For a game.
It won't win you any prizes. You can't sell it.
You can't even use it to pick up women, except possibly in some very rare, and highly specific circumstances.

 

Yeah but does Magnus Carlson get rear ended by an over zealous Bentley, in fact does anything unexpected ever happen in a chess game? Well other than using toilet breaks to Google moves.
Although only a game you most certainly can make a living out of it, so what may be casual fun for some, for others it's their livelihood. Plus you can win money with it, as you need it to enter certain events. So although for us it's a hobby, I can appreciate that for others it is a serious business and getting more so.
Be so much better if we all just drove from the same rule & respect book, I'm terrible, my Anglo Saxon comes out in the heat of the moment but I don't mean it (most of the time) just frustration but when the same schoolboy errors, just keep repeating themselves, over and over, I believe even Mother Theresa would sharpen her tongue in a RR rookies server.
The point of a ranking system is to separate abilities, until this happens I suppose I will have to hang fire complaining (too much), plus I love the slower cars in RR so have little choice but to enter the rookie servers. It's not a place for the faint hearted for sure but great for keeping your mirror skills up to scratch, your reactions sharp and your vocabulary imaginative.

 

Pretty sure the use of motor-vehicles in chess is something that is frowned upon.
And sure, you can theoretically make money from sim-racing, but a) that's unrelated to the R3E ranking, and b) only applies to 1% (if that) of simracers. The rest of us plebs are just doing it for kicks.

One thing I do agree on is the need for seeding splits somehow. I'm assuming S3 is thinking the same and working out how to do it within the code. I know it's not an excuse, and I know people are sick of hearing it, but we are still talking a work-in-progress beta. And even then, splits will only occur if there are enough people in the races in the first place.
If you look at iRacing, which has a fair few more users (putting it mildly) you still have only one split in some of the less populated classes.

I mean, I get it. It can be frustrating when stuff happens because some people are idiots. Last race I had, someone just straight-up brake-checked me going into Paddock Hill Bend, so I ended up in the gravel trying to avoid him.
On the other hand, the race before that was the best race I've ever had on the ranked servers. 8 laps going bumper to bumper, and switching positions three times. Outstanding fun.

Personally, I just wish people would stop taking it so damn seriously.
If something happens, go for a walk, grab a pint, kick the dog, whatever you need to get it out of your system, then get back on the horse.
Even if you lose 60 points, I promise you the sun will still rise in the morning.

 

The guy was talking about what happens when a new strong competitor enters the rating. Your examples have nothing on that matter. How do you enter a chess rating, where do you start, etc.?

 

Chess-players start at 800-1200 depending on the nation they start in.
And if you look at the start of the graph, you'll see exactly what happens when a new strong player enters the field. He's rocketing upwards, so someone else lost more than a few points in those matches.
And I did mention that since R3E doesn't use seeding, the rating-swings can be pretty large.

Say Magnus beat a 2600 rated player in some of those early matches. Obviously the opponent lost a fair few points, but......After 4-5 matches against other opponents it would've returned to the previous 2600.
Which is the whole point I'm trying to make. Your rating isn't a fixed value, it's not even necessarily an accurate representation of your actual ability. It's just a rating based on your performance up to this particular point in time.
At some point, after a lot of matches/races, it'll eventually plateau somewhere around what your true level actually is, but even then it'll still fluctuate up and down. Maybe the leader spins out handing you free points, or you hit a kerb too hard smashing your suspension. That'll make your rating jump up or down, but after a few more 'standard' races it'll return to where it was.
So losing a lot of points to a fast newcomer isn't a big deal. It's just part of the system, and your rating will return soon enough.

 

The point was really that the rating system will always find your true rating....so even if you are beaten by a good newcomer and lose points in a few races your level will be back to where it should be. So the loss is in the long run (or even the medium term) irrelevant.