RRRE - thoughts from a novice to RRRE coming from other racing games now to real simulations

Hi all,
after being absent from racing games for years 'til decades (started with Microprose Formula One Grand Prix in 1995 and played until around 2003 whatever was racing) I got back in 2 years ago when my wife decided to buy a used G27 as birthday present. (No, my wife does not hate me - she really loves me. So much that we now have 3 racing rigs standing next to each other.) I then went on with TheCrew, Dirt Rally, Assetto Corsa and now I am switching to RRRE since TripleScreen is available.

Here the list of things, I have noticed when switching and what I have struggled with to get up running. Perhaps someone from S3S takes note and can discuss at least some of this points with the responsable persons:

• there is no real game manual or enough hints integrated into the game to be able to get everything up and running, explanations are at least too short for such complex settings
• the game manual (aka FAQ) can be found in the forums, but there is no link inside the game or even direct on Steam or on the desktop/startmenu to the forum - the newcomers are left alone to find their way in one of the best racing sims on the market right now
• the whole setup process for steering, force feedback, graphics and sound is user-unfriendly (I can just imagine how many people tried RRRE and then left because it is very hard to set it up (I tried it first two years ago, FFB was absolutely horrible with G27 - undriveable, and I did not manage to get this sorted out within two hours - so I bought some other games and in the meanwhile learned how to setup different racing games from scratch up)
• there should be a wizard for first start (which should be startable at wish from settings later on) to guide through steering, ffb, graphics and sound setup; dumping the user into their first practice session afterwards and let them try their guided setup
• per-car FFB multiplier - per default at 3.5 for every car, with default FFB values this is crap, this should be set to 1.0 per default; and you should be able to decrease this value below 1.000 if ffb for the selected car feels to strong to not tamper the overall settings what changes the other cars ffb total values, too
• it is unvalueable to be able to set the FoV in the video options, this is relatively easy to calculate, but there is no simple calculator inside the game to get this right the first time
• in sound options you can change the sound format, default seems to be Stereo; I have only a 7.1 Dolby Surround Headset connect (all other audio devices are disabled in Windows) - but this is not recognized automatically; this should be asked in the first time setup wizard, together with a simple test option to check if audio is working as expected testing a surround file
• FFB settings default - was not really usable with G27 or DFGT, had 2 installations of both on different systems for different users some days ago; I do not know if the default settings are good with other wheels, should be checked at least or set to something working for the masses
• there should be a real guide inside the game how to set the FFB correctly up, with detailed explanations for each settings and how they work together or accumulate, that you need to setup the FFB multiplier for each car separately (this is only shown when loading if you have enough luck), with tips for widely used Profiler-Software for the big players, as eg. Logitech Profiler Settings must be corrected after fresh installation
• as video settings can not be altered during sessions there should be a performance test using a demanding replay file with a full starter grid in the video settings where we are able to confirm min/avg/max fps and graphics settings; optimum would be an auto-setup with fps measurement and settable fps target, which enables the quality options one after the other until the fps target for the selected resolution has been reached - if I count the hours I have needed to get the quality settings right for constant fps above 60 - changing, loading, practice, drive, abort, repeat... and my hardware is really good for this kind of job
• when reading through the forum it seems to be known, that there are at least two different generations of car physics in use, but we are not able to see which car uses which physics generation
• RRRE dedicated is not delivered as installable Windows service, I managed to get this done using srvany.exe from the Windows NT 4 Resource Kit, but after every restart I need to set the secret passphrase again; using todays Windows Operation Systems with automated update reboots RRRE dedicated as Windows service is a necessarity

This is all for now, so do not be mad at me. I just wanted to share my opinion hoping that it can change something. I am in the ICT business, and when I see the current young generation growing up with so much tech around, but if it does not work right out of the box they just give up within minutes and go on to next competitor - no more fiddling around knowing that it will work if you just try hard enough...

And if I may have some extra features for my next birthday this would be:

• multiplayer integrated voice with PTT requirement
• in-game .mood switching to realistic
• day/night and bad weather transitions

Licenses, leagues and hopefully rating-based match-making are already on the todo-List, to be released SOON™...

 

Some very nice ideas that would make R3E the "Goldrandlösung". But correct me, if I am wrong - but none of my other racing games has such FFB- or other wizzards? Same for the FOV calculation, I haven't seen such a calculator in a game yet.

Every point you list would be (very) nice to have, but since I know where to find FOV calcs, FFB settings or setup/physics infos, I for one would be happier with actual racing features like a safety car, full course yellow, manual formation lap with rolling start, to name just a few

 

AC has at least a steering wizard and a graphics performance test; the graphics performance is also available in Dirt Rally; in other games you can change video settings just in the pause menu. TheCrew has ingame voice between current crew members and was driveable right from the start. Yes, with some tuning it got better, too. But just install, check steering and go... I did not try iRacing yet, but this will for sure happen this year. I would be sad, if an iProduct (even if it is not from Apple) would not care about these things. At the end the customer should be willing to pay for cars, tracks, service and so on.. this is what pays the developers in the end.

After 2 years "back-in-business" I now know exactly where I have to search for FFB settings, physic infos and also how to calculate the FoV myself or setup FFB from scratch for my likings. I read a lot of evenings through all kinds of simracing forums and Steam discussions and put all the pieces together to get to the point where my knowledge is know. There is no complete universal racing game setup guide out there. To have a nice first-time experience for new players is task of the game producer, so why should any player need to search for all these necessary information? Or invest many hours to get this setup if it could be done with a little guide or at least an ingame how-to from the developers within 30 or 60 minutes? The developers exactly know what must be done when on a completely fresh install. I would bet that have a checklist (at least brain-saved) what to do exactly inside the game and where to start with which settings. And these are not really so big and complex features, much of this is just "needs-to-be-done-by-someone-but-not-me-work", would give a nice job for ongoing programmers.

If you do not even know that this must all be done first - and I found no screen when starting saying that this must be setup before driving only one kilometer, you are disappointed at first try. Just connect a DFGT or Logitech G27 to a Playstation with Gran Turismo, select your wheel as controller and it works - this is what made me believe that a) I can get every game on PC to work with my G27 and b) that all of the above for sure can be done. I am nearly 40 and old school, it takes some time, but I do not give up that easy - but the young generation (grown up with iPhones and Playstation) does. And if we do not get this sorted out I have no one to drive with or against when I am 60 and hopefully have enough time to play the whole day

 

Those are very good points. Today we have two groups playing r3e hardcore sim racers and free2play trolls. changes like that would make it easier for people to transition from racing games to sim racing. I started digging through internets looking for info fiddling with ffb and fov when I joined a league and it turned out I'm really slow. It's not easy to get the info.

 

Most of that just boils down to personal wishlist stuff

If you are looking for purely pick up and play gaming, perhaps PC gaming isnt for you. Configuring the game to how you like it has been a staple of PC gaming going back to the early 90's, and is a major feature of what makes PC gaming great.

That said, if you want pick up and play... that's what the default profiles and default settings are for... FFB is extremely subjective, and while you may not like the default FFB profile for the G27, others do... and you can then go on and make changes til your hearts content. There are guides and recommendations here on the forum, so perhaps take a look at those if you need more guidance.

https://forum.sector3studios.com/index.php?threads/ffb-guide.55/
https://forum.sector3studios.com/index.php?threads/controller-profiles.883/

As for graphics settings, those too have 3 different presets. Low, medium and high. If you want to fine tune those, you are free to do so

In regards to the car FFB multiplier, if you need to go below 1.000, then your FFB is setup wrong, and you need to fix your FFB settings before worrying about the car specific value. I'll include my controller profile if you want to give it a go. Everything will work out of the box with it with no tweaks. Download and place it in: My Documents / my games / SimBin / R3E / User Data / Control sets. This wont delete any profile you made. After pasting it in there, go in game to the controller profiles section, and select my profile to use it. Check the key binds before going out on track, because those too are subjective and set up to each persons preference.

The Crew was anything but driveable from the start. It required a lot of configuring to not feel awful. Then it was updated when The Wild Run expansion released which improved FFB a small bit.

 

Nate, yoo haff a grate way wiff wurds, i rekkon you shud be tryping up the manuels and explanations un all that stuf init, as it goes a simple mouse over would actually be quite handy in the menus, a sentence or two maybe a paragraph giving a brief outline of what each command or setting does could help old and new alike. With your writing skills, you gotsta be da dog ta doit!




Im slightly inhebriated Sorry!

 

I must admit as a complete newcomer to sim racing I've found Raceroom quite difficult to get to grips with, for many of the reasons provided. I've persisted with Raceroom, as I find it gives the best driving feel, but have had to spend many hours reading forum posts, watching videos etc., but it's not easy, unless you're already used to race sims, and probably puts many newcomers off.

Not that AC or AMS is really much better in this regard, though...

 

What annoys me most about RaceRoom is that there are no tutorials on setups or wheel configuration in German. Unfortunately, not all of the English language is powerful. This makes it even harder to close the top drivers.

 

Just as Cars/Tracks need hours spent to gain the best performance/line/balance the same amount of time is required with fine tuning your rig/software to your desired feel. Just be thankful that we have the abundance of options necessary to tinkle to our requirements. I drifted away from Sim racing for years and only returned in 2012 and only really started club racing (although been a member of many for years) last year, my point, I guess (who knows) is that Sim racing takes time, it's a craft that can't be rushed, only learnt, which means hours on the track, eeking each tenth with sweat and tears (fortunately the blood part is optional these days), yes some are blessed with some natural ability but there isn't one fast Sim racer that hasn't put in hours upon hours of track time and fettling of their hardware/software options. Aaahh think I may have found my point, feel is subjective, only you can create your desired FFB settings and not a Dev, all they can do is gain feedback from the Beta testers, with all their different hardware and come up with a compromise, which I believe S3 have done.

 

I better not tell You what's my profession since nearly 20 years - I am able to get nearly every piece of IT hardware and Software to do what it is expected to do... and I am very successful doing this.

Fine, if you know it better please tell me where's the error with a fresh installed pc system, logitech profiler installed with default settings where "let the game change settings" is enabled, put RRRE with default settings on it (100% intensity, which is written to the profiler) and the default FFB multiplicator at 3.5 when the wheel tries to break your arms with full power? FFB engine puts out a 30% before the FFB multiplicator is applied... and then it goes directly into the clipping as 30 x 3.5 > 100. Now the rest is simple mathematics, and that's the reason why it should be set to 1.0 by default and you should be able to lower the value if necessary.

It's nice to give me your FFB profile, but after two years learning how to setup FFB multiple times from scratch for different games I just did this and I am fine now. But this won't attract new potential sim racers. I want to fiddle with car setups and go on the track - and not invest hours, evenings, weeks and months learning how to setup a racing simulation game so it is working as intended. We are not talking about fine-tuning to the last bit of performance or ffb feeling possible, that's another hobby. I am married and we got a son, I am able to spend around 5-7 hours per week for sim racing, but spent countless hours during the last two years for setting up racing games just to be able to race. If I would not have been in the ICT business I would have given up after a total of 3 evenings. Any RL friend still driving with me in Crew, DirtRally and Assetto Corsa had their games setup by me; they have had no chance in getting this right by themselves or they were not able to invest so much time for just this single purpose for this long period.

Yes, Crew had miserable FFB in the beginning - but this was relatively easy to get in an acceptable range. DirtRally just needed a good preset to be loaded and some changes to wheel ranges, but AC was really hard to get to a point where you could call it FFB, especially with a G27 as I know now. I have had a steep learning curve and in RRRE these are mostly only small mistakes or weird default settings up to missing good explanations, but you definitely need much guidance in any form presented to get this done. But it should be done, because when it's done you're definitely sold...

 

I gave it a go - my profile is very close to yours in many settings. Your intensity is in 2 settings lower to compensate for the higher car-specific FFB multiplier and my understeering and vertical load setting is somewhat lower than yours. One personal preference and the main difference is the spring setting, I've got 4 instead of 0 in there to simulate the feeling I get when I turn the wheel in as the car wants to keep it's way straight forward. So it seems like my ffb settings are on par to possibility right now.

 

In regards to FFB, different games do it differently, and while I don't know how R3E does it, it will feel different from let's say AC. Some suit the G27 better then others, as of right now I'm using the G29, and I tend to remove most of the FFB. It's worth noting what car you in as well since different cars have a different feel as well.

 

My 2 Cents worth, having owned the G27 for years I have to say I never had a good feel with it in any Sim, setup was always a compromise, so some cars it felt ok, others utter tosh. I recommend not beating yourself (or S3) up about it. My G27 is, as I write, in a state of disassembly due to my attempt to convert it into Handlebars/clutch/throttle,front brake in readiness for the release of IOMTT. With my sincerest advice I would try really hard to upgrade the Logitech asap, I know this is easier said than done but the difference between the G27 and the TX300 I'm now using is remarkable, one can only imagine what one of the modern DD wheels must be like (No, that's not an excuse for DD owners to bombard me with tales of wonderment).
I know upgrade is probably not that helpful but having wasted hours in the quest for a decent feel with the G27 and failing, I thought it only right to try and save you some heartache.

 

I mean, most of this stuff would probably be nice to have, but people that are really willing to play sims just look it up themselves anyway. Apart from that, I think that R3E is actually easier to set up than its competitors.

 

Maybe the point of this thread is that if it was actually easier to get info and the explanations were in-game more people would get interested in sim racing. We're in a niche and soon with RL racing loosing interest we might not have people to race with. With all the esport hype sims that are easiest to start with will come on top.
I'd like it to be R3E.

I noticed fronted developer job opening disapeared form s3 website. I choose to take it as a sign of changes coming to the interface this year.

 

That‘s the real point. Although there are 2-3 points for ffb the main point is that it is hard to get access to these type of games when getting up and running is only possible for IT specialists and already-sim-racers.

 

i found re3 menu and setup a breeze, the menu's are so easy to navigate that set up is easy,

 

The menu is not the problem - if you know what needs to be set to which values, how it's calculated and what's the reason to set it to this value... and you will only know this if you were sim racing for years before.

 

it could be much worst, rFactor 2 setup is a pain to get working compared to R3E.

 

I am also brand new to R3E. My past experience has been the GT5 and GT6 driving "Games" and iRacing. I decided to give Raceroom a go after reading about some of the improvements to it that have come to pass in the last two years. I must say that I am in full agreement with the OP about the amount of research that one must do on his/her own in order to Set-up the game. I have spent minutes actually in the game but hours looking on the internet for resources to help me get the game set-up in an acceptable way.

Yes, the in game menus are easy to navigate and with some exploring you can eventually figure out what does what. And maybe R3E is easy to set up compared to some other PC Sims but that does not excuse the total lack of tutorials or even solid information within the game or in a manual for things like setting FFB, FOV and other basics. The idea that everyone should invest the time or already possess the knowledge to overcome those hurdles on their own if they want to be a "Real" sim racer is a bit self defeating. From what I have have seen R3E does not have a large audience at theis time. Perhaps for some, that is a good thing because it makes for a rather exclusive club. However, the companies that make Sim racing games have to make money in order to survive, keep games in production and add new content. This is especially relevant for F2P titles. More people in a community means more money coming in. Lowering the entry threshold by providing a set-up and operating manual would seem to be a great way to attract and keep some additional participants.

Now I have to go back to researching to find out why:
1. I cannot change any car set-ups in the Garage because all the suspension and drive settings are grayed out
2. I cannot figure out how to move the position of my seat now that I have my FOV set-up to my liking. Again, I have found a Secondary setting menu with listing for moving the seat but there are no key bindings or anyway to set them as far as I can see.

Any of you Vets have ideas as to what I am overlooking on those two issues?