I did a 20min online race earlier at Sachsenring. Fuel and tires were set to 2x. Normally I run this race in the Merc EVO but tonight I drove the Audi. I was alarmed to see how badly the tires were degrading. So I did some tests in practice at Sachsenring to compare tire wear. Fuel was set to 1x and tires were at 2x. Physics were 'Get Real' and mechanical damage was turned off. These are the Merc's tires after 10 mins of driving After 15 mins This is the Audi after 10 minutes And after 15 The difference is startling. I don't have much seat time in the Audi but I doubt the increased tire wear is fully down to my driving. I used the default setup in both cars (except for shorter gears). I didn't want to prefix the thread with 'BUG' as this accelerated wear might be an intentional decision by the developers, perhaps a 'balance of power' thing. That said I always thought the Audi V8 was notable for being very gentle on its tires so I thought I'd throw it out there and see if it's a real problem.
Just spent some time taking a look at this in both the Merc and the Audi cars like you mentioned. To be brief, they have exactly the same tire wear when I tested at Zandvoort using 2x tire wear and 1x fuel. At Sachsenring, after 15 minute race in single player with 2x tire wear and 1x fuel (default setup), I had 70% right front and 79% right rear remaining. Sachsenring is a track that *should* burn the right side much more heavily than the left side, so please disregard the left side for comparison in my pic, as I was purposely burning those off testing something else. So, compared to your picture, nothing here seems wrong to me. I can think of 2 reasons why your tires were very worn out though. Either 1) the server actually had 4x tire wear or 2) you were actually sliding going around the left hand turns quite a bit. The reason my left side tires were so worn down is because at T3 (i think) i was drifting around that right hand turn, and this was severely burning off my tires. So, I have a theory that if you slide at all in these DTM 92 cars, your tires will burn off extremely fast. I will however look further into that, as I think something is wrong there. The tire wear rate itself on the Audi seems correct to me though. Cheers
Thanks for testing! I can vouch the server was running 2x as the tire wear was more or less identical to my own 2x practice session. I'll run some more laps. Like you said Sachsenring murders the right side tires and if you're not seeing the same wear as me then it's probably me being lead-footed.
Back in the days the Audi V8 Quattro DTM was penalized for its big engine and its 4wd through weight penalties. Penalties were increased and it became heavier with every year resulting in numerous tyre damages in 1992. So an excessive tyre wear is to be expected on this car. Source (sorry, only found it in german).
I drove the Audi V8 last championship of touring classics. I had on every track problems with the tire wear. After 20 minutes the wear was gone. Longer stints I had to pit or had to reduce the speed massively. But the problem was my team mate could ran 45 minutes without pitting with the same setup. So it was my driving style. In every brake zone I saw how the tire wear was gone. My settings were 55, 53/47. I really love the V8 but I will never choose him again for a championship.
It was watching this interview with Hans Stuck (from 3:00) that made me think that the Audi should be more gentle on the tires.
A few little errors... In the beginning when the commentary talks about the aggressiveness inside DTM they show aggressive driving - but it's group 5 cars. So maybe it's DRM, but clearly not DTM. What they put in the back of the car is not Bratwurst, it's Weißwurst. "Stucki" is either talking a bit theoretical here or he just couldn't imagine what was still to come to Audi at this point in time. Of course an awd car should be lighter on the rear tyres compared to an rwd car. But this is only a small part of driving physics and doesn't take into account the additional weight and power of the Audi compared to BMW or Mercedes. Furthermore the interview is from 1990 when the Audi was introduced first. Maybe at this point power and weight were still in a range that the Audi had a slight wear advantage compared to its competitors. But after the enormous success of the Audi in 1990 it recieved further weight penalties and the engine was developed further too. In case I read the Wikipedia article right, in 1990 the Audi weighed 1220 kg and had 420 hp, in 1992 it was 1300 kg and 462 hp. I believe this was just a bit too much for the tyres, be it awd or not... And I don't know if maybe the Audi had special tyres or if it had to use the same tyres as its lighter and less powerful competitors.
I did some more tests, same set up as before (1x fuel, 2x tire wear, no mech damage, default setups). Brands Hatch Merc EVO after 10 minutes 15 minutes Audi V8 after 10 minutes After 15 minutes Hockenheim Merc EVO after 10 minutes After 15 minutes Audi V8 after 10 minutes After 15 minutes Zandvoort Merc EVO after 10 minutes After 15 minutes Audi V8 after 10 minutes After 15 minutes Disclaimer: I'm not making any argument that the Audi's tire wear should be similar or different to the other DTM cars - I have no idea whether it should or should not - I'm just highlighting a possible issue.
Alright, I'll try to leave some more feedback based on more testing earlier today with another beta-tester and a dev. Just note though, that these comments are just my thoughts, and nothing official from the devs. From what we could tell, the actual tire wear on the Audi matches the Merc as well as the other DTM 92 cars. Personally, I still dont think the actual tire wear rate on the Audi is any different than the other cars, as I can still exactly match the tire wear when comparing these cars. Tested in both the normal version of the game and our tester version. What does seem to be different between them, is how easily it is in the Audi to 'whip' the back end out going around corners, which then creates a small slide... and if you start to slide on these tires with any car in the class, your tires will absolutely burn off very quickly. Tire wear multiplier seems to not be bugged, as 1x all the way up to 4x exhibit behavior that makes sense to me. So, in my opinion right now, the tire wear is absolutely fine, and extrapolating out, these tires should easily last nearly 1 hr at Sachsenring when using 2x tire wear. I would estimate around 50 minutes. With 1x tire wear, these should last all day, figuratively speaking However, that isnt to say there is no issue here. I am rather intrigued why the tires burn off so excessively when you start to slide. There may be a bug here, or there may not. Although I definitely feel like this is bugged somehow. The other tester and myself also tried some other classes of cars to see if we noticed this phenomenon, and we will likely need to investigate that further. Some cars "may" have a problem like this, while others certainly do not. Anyways, this is being looked at by the testers, but I have no idea when the devs would get a chance to take a look because they have a lot going on at the moment, and a new patch is fast approaching For now, I would say to try and really watch your driving style and try to notice if you slide around corners in these different cars. If you can keep it pointed forward without any slip angle, that seems to wear the tires correctly. This may not be the fastest way to drive since it is rather 'safe,' but if you can hold onto your tires longer this way, it may prove useful. Cheers
That's fair enough. My initial impulse when I hop into the Audi is 'hey this feels just like a rally car!' - I doubt it helps. And seeing you mentioned how easy it is to whip the Audi's tail around I think I'll try lowering the steering ratio so I'm steering around corners rather than flicking the back end around.
Morning guys. Definitely a tire problem with the Audi, 2 runs this morning at Sachsenring, Online MP practice, 4x Tire wear, 1x Fuel. 25 minutes with the Mercedes, Ran out of fuel on default setup, tires would go 30 minutes. Fastest lap, 1:25.414, avg 1:26.1xx 20 Minutes with the Audi, popped front right tire, default setup. Also, 9 tenths slower fastest lap 1:26.3xx, avg 1:27.xxx Edit: I've reported the issue.
Couple more Audi tests at Sachsenring (1x fuel, 2x tires, Get Real, mech damage off) I noticed the default setup for the Audi has the differential set to 100% power, 0% coast, and 4/5 preload. I don't know anything like enough about diff settings to know whether this is normal for a 4WD car but I thought I'd compare the seemingly (to me) aggressive default setup to something a bit gentler. Test 1: This is running the default 100% Power, 0% Coast, 4/5 Preload 10 minutes (2x) 15 minutes (2x) Test 2: This time we are running 20% Power, 20% Coast, 3/5 Preload 10 minutes (2x) 15 minutes (2x) So, the first thing I notice is the tire wear in the first run is not as severe as my original tests at the top of the page. Because both the original and today's first test were done using the exact same setup it seems my driving has improved. Certainly I don't remember once locking the brakes during today's test - I can't say that for my original tests or the online race that sparked my interest. The second run with the 20/20 diff shows similar wear but more evenly distributed. This might be down to the diff settings - but it might be because I'm getting more and more comfortable with the Audi. Conclusion: None....it's just more data, but I'm certain driving style/familiarity with the Audi is a major factor here. As someone who usually drives the Merc EVO it takes quite a while to adapt not only to 4WD but also much longer braking zones. That said, the tire wear still seems comparatively high; if I was asked to race in a way to match the tire wear of the other '92 DTM cars I think I would be lapped very quickly.
@Lixma, thanks for all the data and thoughts you have been providing. @D.Boon is the other tester I referenced above. After testing with him and testing on my own, I was rather convinced that the Audi had the same tire wear as the Merc. I initially tested at Zandvoort and had exactly the same tire wear percentages, which convinced me nothing was amiss. Well, After seeing Dave and you with different results once more, and rather convincingly so, I tested again today and had the same results as you guys. Namely, The Audi had a fair bit more tire wear than the Merc. I tested yet again at Zandvoort with 4x tire wear this time, 15 min race, 1x fuel, no damage, fully default setup except I adjusted the gearing 1 click shorter on the Merc (Audi was full default). The results as I was crossing the finish line were as such: Merc tires %'s: LF- 42, RF - 45, LR - 70, RR - 67 Audi tires %'s: LF - 26, RF - 30, LR - 65, RR - 63 So, quite clearly the Audi had a lot more front tire wear, and slightly more rear tire wear. The % difference between both cars from left to right tires is actually quite close, which I feel shows that my driving was quite even over both tests. So, the Audi simply had a lot more tire wear. Dave did report this already, and I similarly put in a report about excessive tire wear when you slide/drift around a corner. Something does smell a bit fishy there I cant imagine the extra tire wear on the Audi is solely due to being 4WD and the front wheels doing an extra task compared to the Merc. So, this is some good data and the devs will be able to take a look at this when the other bugs they are working on ease up a bit Cheers