I only had a small idea about the AI behaviour after the patch. ADAC 2013 and GT3. Hockenheim, Zolder and Zandvoort. They are really much less aggressive and more aware of my car. That´s nice. But, I think it´s necessary an update in the talent files. The AI cars still have very little performance differences between them. They race in a pack, and keep that pace all race long. They must spread. There must be the very fast and the very slow drivers...and several middle packs. Another thing that would be appreciated is a bigger compromise with the particularities of each car. A Mustang, Corvette or Nissan...they have clearly a higher final speed than a BMW, for example. So, in the straights, they should show that...but in the slow corners, the behaviour is distinct. ATM, they are all the same. What do you think?
Another suggestion regarding AI Behavior. There is a slider for AI. Move the slider, the faster or slower AI drives. Right? Have a separate slider for AI aggression. On low setting, you get "Sportsmanship Mode" Braking when they should Accelerating when they should. Giving you the line when it's clear you have the line. Letting you pass when you are clearly faster than they are (like getting a blue - move over - flag) 1 blocking move. Great tool for teaching novice how to race clean. At the other end of the scale, you get the "fight for every last square picometer of track space, including the space your car occupies" - For those hardcore drivers that want to finish the race with no straight panels. You could mix AI speed with AI aggression to find the balance you like. This would satisfy everyone. Is this possible? @Emerson Meyer There are some differences. Braking performance is one. In the 92 DTM Mustang, at threshold braking, it will sometimes snap right or left and the other cars are more stable. That also would mean that certain tracks would be better suited to certain cars because of their traits (straightaway speed or cornering speed or brake performance....). But most of these cars are pure race cars, from racing series which equalizes them through the rules. So their performance would be very close...right? I understand what you are getting at though.
The field should spread out more, I agree. I'm not keen on the road train of cars you see in this game and in others. Maybe we need a slider for 'talent differential' i.e. the difference in pace between the fastest and slowest driver? As I said in another thread, I also want to see mechanical issues, retirements and more spins and crashes.
I found the AI much more enjoyable. I am not sure they are that much less aggressive than before, but at least in the couple of SP races I have done I got nudged a couple of times but thankfully I found no AI trying to overtake me in the grass or plowing into me when trying to drive defensively. The AI aggression slider I am sure is no revelation to S3. It has been around forever. It would be nice to have it but not vital especially if they can infuse the AI with different personalities and different driving styles. Far more important for me would be a bigger spread during qualification and race both in the lap times. I think it is already nicer than before and superior than any Gmotor2 AI I have raced against. Still the cars are a bit packed together as far as quali times and do not reflect real life QUali and race results. I haven't had time to really test the new patched AI, but previously I would start a SP qualification and I'd be either P20 out of 20 as I got used to the track and the car and then a mere second gained would put me at P1 with little effort. All I am really asking is to steal the very soul of the real life drivers, leave their body as a shell in their homes with a beating hearth and a drop of blood coming off their nose and ears and use the forces of the occult to transfer their very humanity into the games AI. Failing the above, having both a difference between the drivers and the car performance would be fantastic, but it would also be a lot of work. I am wondering if opening up that aspect of the game to the community would be possible, so S3 can keep focusing on fine tuning other aspects of the game. One thing that I have been wanting to say for a long time is this: I was a big critic not of the game so much as the way the game's direction was going. We are still not quite at the door of perfection, but we are getting close. Thinking back at this game a year or so ago, I could not have imagined the way the game is today. One last pet peeve: I want to drive my car in the pits and control the pit limiter myself.
With the old AI I often experienced the pack building several clusters, subgroups. No comparision to the car trains you see in AC, for example. I am one of those players who currently cannot launch the game due to the bad patch locking the game on launch, so I cannot comment on the new AI there is. What I definitely do not want to see is having supernatural number one and two cars chasing away after start and leaving the rest of the field in the dust, always, like in AC. Kunos got plenty of criticism for that AI behavior from players. Sector3 must not repeat this mistake. For SP, it is more interesting to race in a pack that is closer together anyway, more drama and opportunity for the unexpected... More occasions when I can witness AI drivers battling each other instead me.
It's more realistic to have a stretched pack of cars though, certainly in longer races like ADAC GT and DTM where you have pitstops and backmarkers getting lapped.
I drive much vs. AI and have to say, from my point of view the differences in laptimes between fast and slow drivers are good as they are. Actually i see most differences of 2 up to 4 seconds and when you look at real raceseries with balanced cars this seems quite realistic. Some Qualtimes from 2014 ADAC GT Masters and WTCC2014: ADAC 2014 Nuerburgring 2014: http://www.motorsport-magazin.com/a.../session/nuerburgring-1-qualifying-18145.html and Red Bull Ring 2014: http://www.motorsport-magazin.com/a...session/red-bull-ring-1-qualifying-18131.html WTCC 2014 Argentina: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2014_FIA_WTCC_Race_of_Argentina
if we want to be realistic the top half of the field is normally relatively evenly matched with a 1 or 2 drivers with a bit of a gap because the rest are fighting. then pits stops happen and everything goes crazy cars are damaged, pitstops go wrong and strategy's tangle this is when the field gets real broken up and back markers begin to get lapped.
There where things from the old AI that wasn't good, braking through the corners, stopping in the middle of the road etc. But I feel that this AI train starting to appear more now with not much going on in it with the new AI. They are mostly holding the places they have after the first lap / laps.. Before it wasn't rare to see them overtaking and battle each other, now it's only me they battle! If this has to do with the aggression been turned down, I want that back! I didn't find them hard to race against once I found the right AI strength for my skill level. They have always been really good on holding their lines, so door to door action with them was never a problem.
In theory, yes. But still there are differences. And these peculiarities make those series (ADAC, GT3, Blanvpain GT) so attractive. At least, to me. But most importantly, I think, we need 2-4 faster drivers, and more packs. Ok, broken record again, sorry. Back in GTR2 we had that in the GT series. I used to drive the Lambo. Very good in the corners, very good in some slower tracks, but a nightmare to drive against Ferraris and Vipers in the fast tracks, like Enna Pergusa or Spa.
Yes. I was starting from the back just now with the Touring classics. And followed a BMW E30 that was clearly faster than the Volvo ahead of him, but instead of overtake him he backed off every time he had an opportunities to take the shot.. . Any dev have a saying in this? Did you lower the AI aggression? Will we once again experience an AI battling other AI's, or are those good days over?
There hasn't been any (intentional) decrease of "aggression factor", mainly making sure ai drives cleaner and smoother.
That they drive cleaner and smoother is good. But they need to block and overtake / battle each other as well to make the races more alive and thrilling. Aside from the corner brakings and unexpected stops in the middle of the road, I loved the way the AI raced!
Watched the AI in my last 6-7 replays on Zolder and Redbull-Ring with DTM92 and on Laguna Seca with GTR2. In this Races with a 23 car grid over 15 minutes there where just some passing maneuvers in the first lap after start. The remaining race there was 1-3 AI passings for the whole grid. Now the Positive: - Yes they drive definetely smoother and cleaner - If you try to overtake them, they dont give up and fight still like a tasmanian devil... - The issue with divebombing AI on Laguna Seca corkscrew is solved, also the issue with turn 4 on Zolder where a car rotated almost every round seems to be solved. I hope the devs can teach the AI again to bite.
Just had a few blasts with the DTM 2014 ai, set to 105. They do seem less keen to take obviously available chances, but are still prone to forgetting you're there and smacking you. The dreaded hockenhiem hairpin is a nice example. They won't pull out of the draft on the straight to out brake you, but on the exit they often run wide and slam into the side of you. I think they do need to attack and defend more aggressively. Also, their speed doesn't seem to be sufficiently affected by scrub in the fast corners. The last turn at Zandvoort even if I nail it they're still faster than I can go on the exit. Same with some other turns where you're hard on the gas but fighting understeer
Due to the Alt-Tab workaround I could enter the game now, and had my first hour of testing the new AI with races of GTR-3 at Zolder and Suzuka, and practice with GTX at Monza. Some observations and first impressions after this : The AI brakes smoother and more competently into turns and corners. At Zolder in right turns 3 (Kanaalbocht) and 4 (Lucien Bianchibocht), they used to destabilize themselves and wagging their tails needlessly due to bad braking in turn 3, and in turn 4 they often shot themselves off the track in spirals, ending in the sandbox and causing a mess on track due to cars behind them emergency-braking due to the mess in front of them. You could see them abruptly braking there without reason, and driving extremely ill-chosen lines. This is gone now, they smoothly brake in these turns and find a line that is very nice. The braking is improved, and in this example it is the most visible to be observed. The pack stays closer together than before, does not spread that much anymore (or that fast, I use to do 15 minutes races only). I liked it better like it was before. It seems they are less aggressive to overtake AI or player cars as long as they do not obviously send an invitation due to being off the normal pace. They change lines and zig-zag, yes, but they seem to overtakle less often, it seems to me. However, I also saw door-to-door racing between AI cars that illustrate some of the best AI duelling I have ever seen in any racing game. I am also under the impression that less of the unexpected stuff happens: errors made by the AI that often surprised me when I chased after two duelling AI cars in front of me, and when I jumped over that hill and had them in sight again one of them was spiralling out or was coming to a standstill on track 180° reversed due to some driving error. I liked these flaws made by the AI, it made the AI more "human looking". This seems to be toned down. I assume it is connected to the smoothing of braking behavior and that in the past these errors I saw were the result fo the previous, unsmoothed braking there was. However, I already miss that. A bit more human errors made by the AI would not hurt, but give the gameplay and the unfolding of the race that special, human touch. The AI stuggles the more with braking the more powerful and fast the cars are. This seems to be a general rule, and it is the same in AC as well. With the GTX cars at Monza, I was a rolling obstacle to the AI cars LOL, I saw them in the rear mirror trying to brake and avoid me, but often being unable and thus touching my tail more or less hard, since they braked too late and then too hard, sometimes destabilizing the attitude of their car. So, the AI seems to be aware of my presence when it crashes into my rear, its just that with these superfast and powerful cars it does not manage early braking right. At least this is my impression. So, what the AI does for you in SP races, depends on the car classes you choose. I therefore prefer DTM92, GT2, GT3 and WTCC cars, I find the AI behaving nice and really very good with these. The more exotic cars, those classes that have extraordinary brute power and are a raw breed to master, I tend to drive not in races but in practices only - if ever. The AI turns them into Kamikaze weapons, if you are not fast enough to really drive ahead of the pack. That is fine for me, since I prefer touring cars and GT2/3 cars anyway. R3E before the patch had the best AI of any of the current modern sims on the market, imo, and the patch has build up and increased the lead Sector3 has in AI implementation. But it depends on the car classes you chose. Nice job done on the AI, already leaves that of AC in the dust. There is still room for fine tuning and polishing, however. Keep digging! On a sidenote, the sound is epic now, and I cannot help it but: has the FFB and steering gotten its teeth sharpend a bit, too? It feels more robust and subtle at the same time now (or the patch ha changed settings only). I extremely like it anyway. P.S. As so often has been mentioned by others, I too support the idea of an additional aggressiveness slider in the options. It was in SimBin programs since GTR2. Or even GTR?
I have only driven GTR2 races since the patch. Prior to the patch, my wish list was: For AI to stop driving through me (avoid major impacts) For AI to stop brake checking me (drive more normal) For AI to have less grip (so my car and AI cars have more realistic chance to spin in contact situation and they didn't have super computer braking capabilities) 2 out of 3 seems good enough for me. I especially like the invisible wall to stop AI from coming underneath me I got a "bump" from behind at the first corner (Cadillac youtube video), but not race ending - which was good. And they raced me hard! If I remember this race correctly, I think I was running 1:30-1:33 laptimes. I spun and finished last. But I haven't tried with other car classes yet. If I'm driving out front, I couldn't care less whether the cars behind me are passing or not. If I'm in the pack, I only care about getting to the front - stay outta my way! Blue flags - move over!!!! So far, I like this AI patch.
Just made a G5 race at Nürburgring gp, starting from the back and the AI set to 102. It was a bit better in this class! I saw some more overtakings and mistakes / accidents than with the Touring classics. Sure it was a bit more rough and bumpy, but not to the extent that they ruined the race for me. An aggression slider would be really nice to have, so that we can ramp that up if they don't battle eachother enough for our liking!