Great post Robert, thanks - demonstrates again why this is a great community - honest answers and feedback. May I ask if the upcoming introduction of multiclass racing for single-player has caused any headaches?
AI multiclass has worked well already, but hasnt really been prioritized. I might add some more awareness slow- vs fast class.
Do you have the same issue with rolling starts? I use rolling starts exclusively (would love a lap behind pace car a la GTR2) and have never had a first lap problem.
Frankly, I've had a number of restarts because the bot cars bash me off the track in the beginning of a race, and I use rolling starts too. Of course one huge caveat for this is, I'm the weirdo who begins in the thick of the pack every race... yes, I'm strange, but it's so exciting! It is quite a thrill playing this game "Gran Turismo" style, because S3 have done an amazing job representing a race, with graphics that as simple as they are, still put us on a well done track. And these cars feel like amazing racing machines, with all the knocks, bounces, squeaks and tranny whines, and even as they improve the physics, they're still very good. And even as reckless as the bots can be on occasion, I still feel like I'm surrounded by "people" who want to beat me. All this makes me want to race this game "wrong" like this, because surrounded by growling machines as I speed down a straight for a turn, it really is quite an adrenaline rush that I'm not sure any game captures as well. Even in alpha state, this is a much better game than SimBin's previous racers. Well, wasting time when I could be racing...
Oh that adaptative AI! First race of a custom championship with the Radicals, They lapped me! The last of them was 3 seconds faster than me, and the winner was 6 second faster. Is that adaptative?
I usually have no problems on the starts with the AI. I just need to be competitive with them and there is usually no big hassle. If I'm too slow in general or make a mistake on braking for example, they can bump me from behind, so proper AI speed setting and knowing the track well helps a lot. The thing that bothers me probably most is that AI is so damn passive as of right now when it comes to racing against other AI cars. For example, yesterday I had a small race with WTCC cars and from the first corner, race was pretty much a parade and I was doing most of the racing. They just seem to overtake very rarely each other, but yet can be quite aggressive towards me. This behaviour can even mess up races as in many cases, if there is an accident in the corner, AI gets bogged down as they don't just seem to go around another stopped AI car and just stand there on line. Those cars that went through have seconds of lead at that point and race is pretty much done.
Same here, I have no problem battling the AI, but it's crucial to find your sweet spot strength to match your skill!! And the problem I see with them is as stated that they are too unaggressive / passive towards on another!
Hmm, well I don't know, time of all suits everything, there is no sense to me to suffer, then I will remove messages.
Have you tried to lower the AI? And are you used to the tracks where this happens? Since I have learned the tracks well, and found the right AI strength I have very little issues with them. And be sure you don't cut them off, they don't give up their lines as in other racing games. Edit: But also, you shouldn't have to suffer. An aggression slider is needed to suit everyone's needs and liking!
I can appreciate vernon36 view, it is very much how I felt about the ai 4-6 weeks ago, it seemed like every track I was the one they were bullying around, every race seemed like every car bumped me off the track when passing me at the start (first lap or so). Reading thru the forums I saw that some were using adaptive AI and this is supposed to have the AI adapt to your driving. At first it did not appear to be much different, but it is now to the point where the tracks I have been racing on 1) I have spent the time to learn them better so that my starts I am more competitive 2) I am now have more consistent lap times from lap to lap, as well as thru the lap itself 3) As Nigel had mentioned above, I like to start in the middle of the pack and see if I can work my way up some positions (though frankly this does not usually work ) The AI appear to me to be more competitive with me now where ever I am in the race. It is not so easy to pass them, and they seem to figure out where you are passing them and adjust to that. I am not a fast driver, typically I am in the low to mid 90's in other sims, and that is where I appear to be here, so for me, while the AI is very frustrating to learn, it is making me a better sim racer. I am liking them more now than I was a couple of weeks back. I am not sure if what I think is happening is the case, it appears to be what is happening. I saw in another thread someone had mentioned that the AI needs about 3 races at a track with you before they do adjust to your pace, this might be correct, though I really do not have a way to say for sure. At this point I have spent the time on the tracks I like, so that is where I am typically racing, though I do sometimes add other tracks to keep the game fun and use some of the assets I have paid for As I mentioned earlier, it would be great to have the ability to adjust the aggressiveness of the ai, but as nigel mentioned having them interact with each other more aggressively also. It appears that they do to some extent race each other, I can see them making passes on each other and periodically I do see a spun out car on the track or off it. My impression of racing is this happens more frequently than it happens in the game (I live a couple of hours from Lime Rock racetrack so I try to get to a couple of GT races a year)
I just have to share a few pics of a really good race I just had with the AI!! 15 minutes race from the back with 23 AI's set to 105. This black BMW you see in the mirror on the first pic makes a really slick overtake on me, and then he just continued to overtake lap after lap, up to when it's 4-5 minutes left! I had a real hard time keeping up with his advance.. For the last laps he was battling that red Nissan and was really close to get past a couple of times, he finally ended up on 6th place behind that Nissan and with me right behind him. Should also point out that non of the overtakes was because the others made mistakes, he just out braked them and was faster! Awesome!! More of this please S3S!!! And with mistakes, mechanical issues and an in depth damage model you'll have a winner!!
I am really curious about how the AI is going to improve with the new physics model overhaul that is coming and really really hope that they are going to bring back the AI overtaking more and implement the AI mistakes, mechanical issues and in depth damage model heppsan is talking of, as well as the "ungluing" of the AI cars from the track . After having done 30+ races in SP without any DNF's from me or the AI, this really starts to bother me somewhat. It is just sooo unrealistic that everyone always gets to finish the race. Don't get me wrong, I love this game and I love the racing in general, it is just lacking one important ingredient, namely all the drama and exitement that goes with racing when things go haywire!
And now I'm having the time of my life with the WTCC (both) AI these days. I've been racing with AI at 102% (Slovakia) and they really make me feel challenged without any silly behavior. Just to mention the good side too.
I feel like I should give that adaptive A.I. a shot, see how that works out, though from what has been said about them previously, the bots eventually adapt to your racing anyway. Which brings me to why I'm posting. This AI... it's great, it sucks, it's exciting, it's aggravating, I love it, I hate it... and I guess this is the kind of reaction you want about a game's AI. What baffles me about it in particular is how their level of skill, at least for me, depends on the track. On Brands Hatch or Sachsenring, they do poorly. On Hockenheim, Monza or Zandvoort, they're almost untouchable. This makes setting up a custom championship series a little problematic, because on those sorts of tracks, I'm going to either blow past them or lose badly. The matter of them acting a bit like they did/do in Forza, slowing me down so those behind me can harass or wreck me out has caused me a few headaches, and a few obscene outbursts on occasion at them, but that's mostly a side issue. The one thing I'd like to know is, does anyone else seem to have trouble with the bots performing a lot better or worse on different tracks? No one seems to bring this up, and I'm wondering if the adaptive AI is just a little wacky in my particular game.
I couldn't have said it better. (Actually I coudn't cause english is not my language ) Yeah, same thing here with same tracks.
I don't have this issue much. with a field of 22 and the gt2 cars i ranged from 2nd place to 18th place and some of that is my own inconsistency difficulty @ 108.
I agree, but it also seems that the wtcc, dtm 92 classes are far more forgiving for me anyway, as soon as I step into the higher classes I have some real problems with the AI if I am not really confident in my skills at that track. ramming and just plain being run off the road is all to common than.(this is for adaptive AI) rich
For me this mostly comes down to how good or bad I am with the different track / car combo, which makes it quite realistic in my opinion. But this must be a really hard one for the devs. I don't know how it works in R3E, but wouldn't it be good if the 100% AI matched the real world drivers times?