I start wondering. Usually, with 28 AI cars and me on track, I need to run 2, at best 3 2-lap races to give the adaptive AI a base callibration for a new (untrained) car, so that in follow-on races I have the AI on a skill level that challenges me, where I swim with the crowd, cannot win as if it were nothing, but am not lost behind either. With this car now, on Nordschleife, 29 cars in total, I have done 4 adaptive AI races with 2 laps each, and every time I do not just win - I destroy and put to shame the AI cars, can easily lightwarp away form then if I have free track, and have rolled up the whole field easily in firts lap already, and then winning in second lap with dozens and dozens of second in lead. I obliterate them. And that is what confuses me, because usually I cannot do that. Not at all. I have the impression also that the AI does not or only extremely slowly adapts from race to race with this combo - if it adapts at all. Honestly said, i see no improvement here. Has anything been changed with the adaptive AI, or the AI in general? Or does it simply suck with the 235i? I really start to be irritated.
I also have something which i observe only in the 235i, and that is that the AI, when it is close and on my 4-5 o'clock or 7-8 o'clock position, it maybe turns in a little bit and right into me, touching the flanks of my rear quadrant as if it were not aware I am there. I do not have this with other cars. Is the collision box for this car maybe a little bit off? It is no big thing since this car is very well-behaved and such destabilization of attitude can be easily caught up, and it does not happen very often - but it happens time and again.
I am certainly not going to pretend I'm an expert, but I read a community guide along the lines of "training the adaptive AI" over on RaceDepartment that seemed to suggest it was going to take a longer race than that to get the AI to start to adjust. Obviously, on the 'Ring this could get a bit time consuming. :/
I wish there was a simple way to just do a few practise laps to gather an average lap time, enter the position that you'd like that time to represent (eg around tenth on the grid) and then start a race.
You may be interested in this thread. This is an "AI trainer tool" where you basically input your lap time, and the tool adjusts the adaptive AI to run those times without you needing to do a lot of laps or a lot of races to train the AI yourself. I havent used this tool myself as I dont run adaptive AI, but I have heard positive things about it. May be worth reading through that thread and trying it out
Yes I did actually look at that Nate but couldn't really figure it out how to get it working Thanks for taking the time to reply Nate
Did you look at the numbers in the index-file itself? If not, would you mind uploading it? I'm a little curious as to what is going on. Never had a problem with the Nords myself, but still haven't had time to do actually run the 235i.
No, a single flying lap is enough to get an entry. Though granted, the lap-times used by the AI is the average fastest lap of the grid, so the more laps you do the higher the chance of faster laps. But if all we're looking for is a ball-park figure in order to get the AAI to find its place, then a single lap is sufficient. Besides, by the sound of it it sounds as if the lap-times listed are actually faster than what the grid is subsequently doing. And that is, at least to me, a new one.
guys, my question is why something that I do since months and months now, with several different cars on several different tracks, is so totally different with this car. This is the point: that this car gets so totally differently handled by adaptive AI. With 4 of 5 other cars I "trained", I indeed needed only two 2-lap races, and then from 3rd race on they were more or less, generally, all in all, on a level that matched mine. With this car, the adpative AI after 4 such races on Nordschleife still is as slow as snails. AI cars fight amongst themselves, yes. The pack racing is intense. But the general pace is a mess. When I have a free road ahead of me, I gain estimated 10-15 seconds lead per driving minute on the AI car that is behind me. Plus this strange bumping behavior that I described, that the AI behind me tries to turn into my car, makes contact with my rear flank, and then shies back. Its no kamokaze manouver, but something that gives me the feeling that the aI is not fully aware of the collision boxes of the cars. I have no clue on editiing those adpative aI number sheets, and I don't care either. I want to keep it simple. Things worked with other cars and tracks, and with this car the proven way seems to be broken somewhat. No workaround wanted and no improvisation, only somebodhaving a look at it and checking whether or not maybe something buggy slipped through or something in the AI got broken. If I need to edit the number sheets mnaually for this car, then I coudl as well skip adaptive aI completely for the 235i and simply try to find a manual AI skill setting for it in the options. Point is: with all other cars I run (the Audis, the GT3 cars, the DTM and DTM92 cars), adaptive AI works well for me in the way I described. 2 races, 2 laps, and I am done. With this BMW not. 4 races, and still it does not move faster, as if I had fixed it to the lowest AI setting.
To clarify that for myself. As I understood it, the first flying lap (after a race start the seocnd lap then) of a race (not pratcice or qualiy) is what counts in a whole race, so you do not need to run longer races: 3rd and follow on laps would not be counted. To get a seocnd callibration point, you thus need to restart the race, and then do the second lap in it again. And so forth. Thats how it was described somewhere where I have read it like this. The experience of the past months tells me: yes, it works. And very well indeed.When they came up with adaptive AI , I dismissed it, it did not produce good results at the beginning. When I rechecked it again some months ago, after a long brake from it, I saw it was changed and fundamentally improved. since then I am a believer of the adaptive AI option. Usually I eat the AI in a new, untrained car in the first race, and in the second race they usually leave me behind a bit, hand me back to the rear end of the grid, after having adapted their skill level massively upwards over the values in the first race. After the second race they then tune down a bit again, and that is where they usually start to reach into my performance range, from then on, things are good. Very rarely it is the other way around: I get killed in the first race, and dominate in the second. May depending on the driving difficulty of the car I choosed, I don't know. Is my understanding wrong?
Hey does any one know that if you set up a session with 2 races, does the Ai adjust for race two? Or does the Ai level stay the same.
No, you've got it right. And usually the AAI does fine on finding the right level on its own. But there are trouble-spots here and there, and occasionally it'll paint itself into a corner. Which is why I'd still like to see a copy of your index-file, since I've got a pretty good idea of what's going on. Before going any further, I'd like to stress that I don't KNOW anything for certain. I've got a lot of experience with the AAI and how to train it, but while it is educated guesswork, it's still guesswork, okay? So, when starting out with a new combo, the AAI will take a guess at your approximate level, and start from there. It uses data from other races you've done, does a bit of averaging, and comes up with a starting point. Next time you do the combo, it'll adjust X number of levels up or down in order to set the pace that you require. All well and good, but there's a slight snag. The AAI, once it gets reasonably close to your time, seems to be reluctant to try other levels in order to see if it can get closer. And that works okay-ish on most tracks, but..... The AI is divided into percentage-levels of lap-times. On a standard track 1% is maybe a second, and you can still get decent racing even if the level is a little off. On the Nords however, 1% is anywhere between 8 to 12 seconds. So I'm pretty sure what is happening is that the AAI has decided that whatever level it is at is close enough, and you won't see any improvement just by using AAI. Which is why I usually set up my AAI, so that I have a bracket of 5-7 levels around my pace-time. That way the AAI can adjust without problems. So right now there are three things you can do: 1) Do some manual editing of the index-file. Not for everybody, and I can completely understand that. So, 2) Use the AI tool that pixeljetstream designed. It basically does the same as option one, only you have a GUI to help you out so you don't have to sort through XML code yourself. 3) Do the same thing manually, although that'll take quite some time on the Nords. What you do is run two-lap races against fixed AI. Although with the Nords, I'd settle for rolling starts and only have to do one-lap races. Yes, rolling start laps are slower than flying laps, but with the Nords, the difference is well within the margin of error (at least for me). Start at what you think is your approximate level. Then adjust up/down by 5 levels each time. Once you've figured out what five levels you're in between, run against the four levels in between, and you have your bracket of five levels. After that you should be able to switch back to adaptive without further problems.
That leaves me wondering still. I almost drive not much else than Nordschleife, and the version of it I used for the BMW now I have done dozens (with AC hundreds) of times in other cars, with adaptive AI. The 235i is the first car that falls so totally out of the scheme of how the adaptive AI adapts on the Nordsschleife in all the other cars I used for that: severla GT3 cars, DTM92, DTM2016, Audi VLC Also, what stuns me is how hopelessly slow the AI 235 cars are on the straight. I warp away at >light speed<. And for several races in a row now. No adaptation, no visible change from race to race. As if fixed to a manually set low value. I understood correctly then what you explained. Its just that this explanation - does not cover what happens here. Thats why there is my question on whether something got broken, is bugged, whatever. I am off to reinstall my system some time later this weekend, and will see to have one or two more races with that car before, and other cars. If I do not comment again, it means that I have nothing to add to or change in my earlier report.
One more thing before you attempt racing it again. I've just tried training the 235i on the Nords, and found something of a bug. The AI has a tendency to roll at least one car per lap in the Karuselle Never seen that before with any other car. And the end result is that while that car gets back on its feet and gets going again, everyone else behind him is going molasses-slow since they're having trouble finding a way around. I suppose it might also be possible that they screw up the Kleine Karuselle, thus making you disappear on the straight. So could you do me a favor and check your replays to see if, on the laps that you out-pace the AI, something happened at the Karuselle?
Sometimes one or several cars are a bit "destabilized" in the Karussell, but it is not the causal reason why they are slow. With the four races I did, now five, I had rolled up the whole field in the last quarter of the first lap, which inlcudes Schwalbenschwanz and then the long straight of the Döttinger Höhe. But throughout the whole seocnd lap I constantly pull away as well. They are way too slow EVERYWHERE. Its not incidents keeping them slow, but a general lack of pace over the whole course. The only reason why I have not declassed them already after one thi8rd of the first lap is that they block my line when racing two or three wide right in front of me. I do not want to boast or show off, it is untypical that I can dominate the AI so easily, happens with no other car. I have hundreds of laps on the Nordschleife in AC and RR, so I know the track inside out; I'm a reasonably safe driver and a defensive driver - but in no way I can claim to be an especially fast driver. I am not.
Back with a fresh install. Tested fixed AI 120 and 110, and got my lower rear end served on a silver plate. So, the AI definitely can be capable to handle this car. Values between 95 and 100 seem to hit my marks best. More test with adaptive AI racing however showed zero adaptation in this car, while other cars used still show adapted skill levels. I also see the 235 not adapting on other tracks as well. AAI in other cars works, manually set AI with 235i works: So I be pragmatic, and simply change skill level manually when using this car, and forget adaptive AI with the 235i. AAI and 235i I rate as a broken feature combination. However, no showstopper. Thanks for taking the time, Cheer. Consider the case closed. The rest is up to S3, they either make some sense of all this, or not. Pack racing and close quarter combat in this car is a blast since it allows you to indeed focus on the enemy, not needing you to fight against your own car. I love it.