You say you read in the past they are struggling, yet apparently they managed to survive the time that passed since you read that. So are they struggling, have they ever been? Afaik there has never been an official statement about that. Again, what's all this based on? Listening to those who voice their dismay very loudly and repeatedly (until they get bored by doing so and move on) or looking at the actual numbers? Not saying there's no difference, but when I compare the 2 week audience numbers of RR and pcars (a AAA title with massive advertising and cross-platform exposure/awareness) the gap ain't that huge, "only" twice the number of people playing RR (a PC-only game wih virtually no advertising). I'm not saying it couldn't be better or that I wish the numbers wouldn't improve. I'm just pointing out that they aren't as bleak as some people might think they are when they only base their judgement on the subjective picture the "coverage" on certain platforms paints.
"You never get a second chance to make a first impression." ...as the saying goes. The early days of R3E have left an irreversible negative impression for many. (I thought the game was terrible when I first played it and didn't return for another year) Without delving into the complexities of the Raceroom store once again, I think what gamers want is simplicity when making a purchase. Assetto Corsa and PCARS offer that. A full package for a fair price with the traditional DLC model. It's what gamers know, it's what gamers want. R3E can be done on a budget but the buyer needs to do his/her homework first. Then there's the 'nickel and dime' effect. Neither of these are good things, even if the product isn't necessarily expensive. I know it's often played-down on here but I feel the business model has stymied the potential of R3E more than we will ever know. Amen.
Raceroom is "always-online", even if you do an SP ride only. AC can be left offline if driving SP only, and people like me often do that. This group is not small, not at all. It usually is just more silent than the MP fans and the active modders. RR: http://steamcharts.com/app/211500 AC: http://steamcharts.com/app/244210 PC: http://steamcharts.com/app/234630 This forum here is nice, but the level of activity and the size of audience does not compare to the AC crowd and their forums. Thats not just about modding - but the general topics/chit chat section brims with more activity and threads, too. I think Raceroom still is the underdog, in direct comparison.The Steam numbers also indicate that. So do the activity levels (number of threads) for both sim's sections in according forums, simHQ (factor 5) for example, or RD (factor 4.5) The quality of content cannot be the reason. Too often even people who do not go with RR, recongise and say that they like what they see in tracks and now driving physics. There must be more reasons that keep many people away. However.
For the OP, a hint that Raceroom maybe can operate a little bit outside the limiting business contexts that other game developers and publishers face. Its better if somebody explains the business background regarding KW Suspensions and the Raceroom-Cafes who has more knowledge of the matter. I am not certain that I understood all that right, but this may serve as hints and indications that RR, as a PC software and business endavour, rests on another basis than AC or PC or any other title out there currently: http://www.nuerburgring.de/fahren-erleben/erleben/raceroom-cafe.html http://www.kwsuspensions.de/ If somebody would tell me that the PC software is not even the focus but just kind of a spin-off from from their main business interest, I would not be too surprised.
I check steamcharts for r3e daily. Because I want it to grow so badly. And it has made progress. http://steamcharts.com/app/211500
Not as far as I am concerned cause I use that potential on an almost daily basis and I honestly do know nothing about the agenda and structure behind that business model....
No, you didn't get it. What I meant was, if I'm willing to spend a certain amount of money on one title, it doesn't mean I will be happy to spend the same amount on another one. It's because the two things may have different "value" to me. Not specifically quality-wise. In games generally I determine if it's worth the price based on the time spent/price ratio. Of course it doesn't apply only for R3E vs. iRacing, I used this example, because The Angry Hamster implied it with it's $15 per track statement.
Could try turning all this on it's head. I look at things slightly differently, being a DICK (explained in previous multiple threads ) I purchase all content on day of release, I pay full price and get no benefit from sales or packs, I'm into this Sim to value of a Dev's annual salary, don't ask me how much exactly as I have absolutely no idea but what I do know is for every hour spent playing and not bitching the net price goes down, it's all down to what you get from it, £100 spent / 100 hours driving = £1 an hour, you don't have to spend a penny more but the price keeps dropping the more you drive, so what I'm trying to say is it's entirely up to the individual what they get from this Sim! Personally I get far more out than I put in IMO. RRE's not a Revolution man but an evolution and as far as I'm concerned I have not wasted a penny on it but as for all the other Sims sat on my Puter's Hard drive that don't see the light of day, oh Jeez, back to the DICK metaphor again, just can't shake it! Don't get me wrong, bitchin's what the Forums here for, among other things, it's just you could be saving yourself money by driving!
If you want to win vRP you should drive better in competitions.. I'm completely fine with the business model in this new business model thread
All current competitions that award vRP are random draw. Maybe join some yourself before you start giving advices.
Looking at those numbers through your rose coloured glasses you say they're not to bad. Using an objective eye they tell a completely different story. RRE 2600000 owners 39000 player in the time period AC 300000 owners 66000 player in the time period PC 400000 owners 79000 player in the time period Now the way I see those numbers. AC and PC combined have just about 1/4 of the owners that RRE has. And yet RRE has just about 1/4 of the player in the time period listed. Now it will of course be pointed out that the owner numbers are skewed due to RRE being FTP based. But as I see it that means 2600000 D/L for free and tried RRE and a small number stayed. Whereas 700000 or so people paid full price for AC and PC and a large number of them keep coming back. I would be interested to know what percentage of those claimed players in RRE own any content at all. Perhaps when our steam accounts are linked to the RRE accounts we'll be able to click on a persons profile and see what game content they own and weather they in fact have put their money where their mouth is.
Don't look for owners. A lot of "gamers" with hundreds of games on their Steam accounts if this games is free. If you look for timing you will see every game is playing about 20 min not more
Gotta love the internet, where this somehow turns into When people say they fear RR might "slowly die" that sounds quite dramatic to me, more so than the actual numbers suggest, at least from my pov. Maybe it's not me who should check his whatever coloured glasses. And I didn't think it's necessary to discuss how those enormous owner numbers emerge, just looking at the owners sorted by country should make it pretty clear how that happens:
So you quote yourself with a different statement to the one I quoted to imply that I'm somehow twisting your words. RIGHT got to love the internet.
I don't get how in some countries it has more players than owners, but again, being F2P means that not all players got any money in, while pCars and AC owners spent at least 30€ for the base game + some more for DLCs. Anyway i think the thread has derailed, i just wanted to give some marketing suggestions that i think were pretty fair both for S3S and users, it wasn't simply a "GIMME LOWER PRICES" rant, i wanted to discuss ways to make spending money on it more attractive because, believe it or no, simracing crowd talks of it even less than it does of automobilista and rFactor2, when i think it is more advanced than the first and more "complete" than the latter and would be able to compete with the "bigs" AC and pCars
Yes, because in that quote I didn't put any judgement on that number but on the gap between RRs a PCs numbers. Where in that line you quoted did I say the RR numbers are not too bad? I said the gap ain't that huge (as some make it sound).
Hold on, hold on. In what regard it is more advanced than AMS and more complete than rF2? Graphics? Yes, I like it more. But more advanced, hardly. Physics? Unfortunately, nope. However, R3E does a good job. Race/sim features? Maybe one day. Not now. AMS and rF2 are the most complete sims on the market atm.
Because the percentage numbers are the share of the respective group, so 5% of all owners are German, but 12% of all players are German. And all I did was asking what that impression of yours and the conclusions you draw from that are based on. You explained several times now that it's based on subjective observations and that's ok, I'm only saying that from my pov that might not be the most appropriate means to base a business/marketing strategy on. You're giving your opinion, saying from your pov they are doing sth wrong and they should do it differently, without actually knowing any of the numbers that I'd say one needs to pass such judgement and make such suggestions. But that's just my 2 cents, which you in no way have to give any credit to.
For a simracer i may agree with you, but I can tell you that when i have friends at home, nobody ever wanted to play them, as you said AMS lacks the graphics, and while they do a pretty good job with an old engine, IMHO the tire model shows its limits when compared to modern sims. rFactor2 is probably my favourite one physics wise, but it has 10 versions of identical cars, lots of low quality or out of date mods and the interface is really orrible, not really user-friendly enough to be a mass-market competitor. I think R3E can be more mass oriented because it has a much better UI, much less need to thinker with options and external resources, a nice graphic and an intuitive phyisics model that may not be the most advanced one, but provides plenty of fun