F1 2015

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Holger53, Jul 10, 2015.

  1. Fairman

    Fairman Well-Known Member

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    After 12 Years avoiding their products I give them another chance cause Dirt Rally looks pretty cool - just wonder what took them so long :).....(moneymoneymoney)
     
  2. Revvin

    Revvin Member

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    Not very happy with the game at the moment, it really needs fixing. I considered asking for a refund - the first time I've ever done that but figured I'd give Codemasters more time to fix it. The FFB is horribly weak on my CSW V2 with Formula Rim, even at a standstill I can turn the wheel with my little finger because there is no weight to the steering or friction from thetyres on the tarmac. With such weak FFB I don't get a feel for what the car is doing so its pretty much undriveable for me - I may as well be playing it on my very first wheel - a Thrustmaster T1 which didn't have any FFB just a bungie cord to centre the wheel.

    Graphically its not what I was expecting from a next-gen only title. The colours seem quite washed out but I could live with that if the screen wasn't so blurred. Its like they modelled my driver on a geriatric driver who has cataracts or someone has smeared Vaseline over his visor, I can't clearly see the dials in my own cockpit! Aside from that the menu systems are nicely done but I wish they would just let us have mouse control instead of giving us control via a d-pad and using XBOX legends on the buttons which are not much help when you're not using an XBOX controller, having this kind of system on the PC just makes it feel more like a console port.
     
  3. MeMotS

    MeMotS Well-Known Member

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    Why wait?
    Get a refund and when you start reading around that its fixed. Buy it again :)
     
  4. Dave R

    Dave R Well-Known Member

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    Yeah for goodness sakes if you're not pleased with it, get the refund while you're under the 2 hour playtime requirement for a refund and rebuy it again later. The only issue I'm having is just the FFB. I haven't seen any of the other bugs that have been posted elsewhere.
     
  5. hector

    hector New Member

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    Although I have all of Codemasters F1 games, I bought them all on sale, I have never spent that much time on any of them (particularly over the last couple of years with all the great sims available). On a whim recently I bought Dirt Rally and think it has great potential, on the back of this I preordered F1 2015 from CDkeys.
    Can't say I love it yet (the FFB needs a lot of work!, and I definitely need a new graphics card), but I am finding it quite entertaining as an alternative to RR3
     
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  6. Holger53

    Holger53 Member

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    Yes, same feeling here. I don't know whether I could call it a sim or arcade or something else.
    But it's entertainment ;)
     
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  7. Dave R

    Dave R Well-Known Member

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    Thats the best way to put it haha. It is entertainment.
     
  8. Revvin

    Revvin Member

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  9. nate

    nate Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    I must say, Im not sure how comfortable I would be buying from CDKeys.

    They arent a legitimate retailer of the keys they sell for any game. They dont source their keys from the publishers that make them.

    The way they operate, and are able to offer games for such low prices, especially at launch, is due to a number of reasons. Firstly, sites like this are well known for exploiting regional pricing. For instance, a key in Russia is not the same price as a key in England. England's currency is worth more, so the games, like everything else, are priced higher. So when a company purchases these keys from Russia for pennies on the dollar (or pence on the quid?) you are paying a lot less than the game should be sold at in your country.

    Second, some of these websites obtain keys from much more dubious methods. Some websites use stolen credit card numbers to buy the keys and then resell them to you, cheaply.

    Thirdly, the source of the keys can be entirely third party. Neither from the publisher themselves, or a cheaper region. The legitimacy of those keys is usually never known by the end-user, as the identity is hidden from you.

    And then who knows what a company like these will do once they have your CC info. Or what about if the key in invalid? Sometimes you are just SoL and your money is gone.

    This is worth a read if you want some more information about the topic.

    New games seldom go on sale for half price or less at release. Well, like no game does, so that should be a bit of a red flag and alert you to look elsewhere. Some websites have voucher coupons available for everyone allowing them to offer games at lower prices, and those sites are legit however. For instance, GreenManGaming.

    Cheers
     
  10. Revvin

    Revvin Member

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    Well firstly I think you should be careful making blanket statements that sites like these may have sourced codes illegally or that they will abuse your credit card details once they have them, I've used CD Keys for over a dozen purchases without any issues and not had any problems with my credit card details being misused. A lot of games are region locked so the deals you get on those region locked ones are generally from bulk buying. I've never had a single issue with registering a key from CDKeys whether its been for a PC game on Steam, Origin or a game code for XBOX or PlayStation or a subscription code for those services - and just for the record I have no affiliation with them, just a customer who has had zero issues. For some games that are global keys I'd argue in many cases buying from a site like CD Keys is a way to avoid abuses of regional pricing by the publishers.

    If developers like Codemasters didn't ship such a poor product maybe people would be happier to buy direct from them or Steam/Origin etc. My copy of F1 2015 was pre-ordered through Steam at full price as most of my games are via Steam or Origin, I could ask for a refund and then buy the key from CDKeys but I'll give Codemasters more time to fix the game, I shouldn't have to and maybe as consumers we shouldn't but that's an entirely different discussion.
     
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  11. hector

    hector New Member

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    From a personal point of view I have not had any issues buying from CDkeys and I always pay by Paypal so the CC information is not an issue.
    Also, I cannot justify spending £40 on a game from a series that has disappointed in the past.
     
  12. Dave R

    Dave R Well-Known Member

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    I've bought from Kinguin before but only older games, nothing preordered, and I've never had a key stop working. The Russian key thing doesn't happen any longer since Steam region locked everything late last year, but I'm sure anything purchased before that date may still be able to be sold. Some of them are quite dubious, which is why I've stuck with Kinguin. I had used my debit card on another key site to buy a game, and late last year, awoke one morning to find that someone had spent around $2,000 on Blizzards website using the same card # I used on one of those sites (this one didn't use paypal, only cards). It took the better part of a week to get my money back so lesson learned there. If you're going to buy a key from one of the sites, use paypal, make sure the key says "worldwide" and I'd be really leery of a super low price thats even lower than the other key sites. I've used only Kinguin, and it's great to find games that aren't on Steam any longer, or older games that the other sites want an arm and a leg for in pricing.
     
  13. Rodger Davies

    Rodger Davies Well-Known Member

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    I've used those key sites too without issue; I think the bad press for them might be spread by Valve and the original producers, seeing as it stops them regulating the market so closely and locally.

    Not sure if it is Valve or the studios that sell those sites the keys.
     
  14. Dave R

    Dave R Well-Known Member

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    A lot of it is Valve and the developers Rodger. The bad press really hit late last year when Ubisoft pretty much killed quite a number of keys for Watch Dogs, Far Cry 4, and some other ubisoft games that were purchased from a few of the sites. Ubisoft "claimed" that the keys were purchased with stolen credit cards, but eventually relented and gave the affected folks their keys back. You can read about that here. What the key sellers do on those sites is buy the pack in games (Nvidia promo games for buying a card, vouchers, etc), buy games when they're on sale at ridiculous prices, take games from charity bundles, and then mark them up. As for new unreleased games, that's a mystery to me how they acquire them.
     
  15. nate

    nate Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    I suppose for those of you that buy from those key resellers and have had good experiences there, there isnt much reason to stop using them to get cheap games... Many people do get burned though. It does happen sadly. Im not trying to tell anyone where to spend their money, just enlighten on some of the reasoning against using key reseller sites.

    Perhaps another argument which I failed to mention earlier will also add to the topic at hand. Because none of those websites get their keys from the publisher of (whatever) game... They can cut the cost down as well because there is zero money that goes to the developer. The keys are either illegal or grey market, and the developer gets none of the sale price.

    For anyone looking to support developers that make the games we all love, this is not a way to do that. Whether you feel a game deserves full price is another topic, but to pay less by buying a key off a shady site and still say you support developers is a bit of a misnomer. I suppose you could equate buying off of those key resellers as "paid piracy." You are paying for an often times illegal key, or at minimum grey market which the developers get no profit on. What is different from straight up pirating? There isnt much difference that I can think of, they are essentially quite similar. Just feeling like you bought a legit game from a seller, instead of pirating?

    This may sound harsh which isnt the intent, but just to mention some of the negatives with key resellers. I try to support the devs of games/franchises I like because I want to see more of them. If a game costs too much at release for my liking, which is most of them.. :p I'll just wait for a sale at a legitimate retailer. I suppose that is an issue for games heavily based in multiplayer, as the user base is at its peak near release, but that hasnt been an issue for me.

    What would you have had Ubi, or Rebellion Developments (the dev of Sniper Elite 3) to do with their debacles? The keys were outright illegal. Would you have preferred they allowed them to remain knowing full well they werent legit in any way?

    I could see different arguments all around, and living in the internet and digital culture we do, cheap games are omnipresent. I grew up when Napster hit and all the other "free" download sites and then torrents more recently. It has its place and purpose. Im not saying piracy is the problem or a killer of developer profits though... This is just a complex issue to wholly discuss in a single post lol :p

    Anyways, on topic of F1 2015 again... It's a shame codies didnt get more of the kinks worked out. The handling seems to be a bit better than previous years, but maybe down the road with more patches things will be ironed out.

    Cheers :)
     
  16. Dave R

    Dave R Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say I disagreed with the decision of Ubi or Rebellion Developments was just replying to the topic. It's well within their right to do that, but if you look at forums around the time the Ubi thing happened, some of the keys weren't from a third party keyseller, and were legitimately purchased. The main use for me for those key sites is buying games that aren't on Steam any longer.
     
  17. Revvin

    Revvin Member

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    There you go again making blanket statements without a shred of proof to your claims, as the discussion went down this avenue after I posted a link to CDKeys kindly post some proof that this company is illegally sourcing keys, if you can then I will of course remove the link otherwise stop making broad unsubstantiated claims about their illegality and implying that those who use such companies are somehow pirating games. As someone who used the internet long before Windows made it easy and I had to create PPP/Slip scripts in DOS I'm not some naïve internet user who is blissfully ignorant to what goes on online, if something looks too good to be true then often it is so treat with caution, this applies to online prices for game keys, clothing or a million other type of goods sold online, key resellers don't have a monopoly on bad merchants but we don't castigate all online clothes stores or electronics stores.
     
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  18. nate

    nate Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    The blanket statements arent just conjecture, it is well known information. Sites that sell games on the cheap do not operate like a legitimate retailer :p They are 3rd party sellers that dont source their keys from the publisher of the games they sell. There is nothing dubious about that statement.

    I think I would first ask you, what makes you think that a site selling a game half off at release, is legit? When Steam, Origin, or any other known legit business sells at full price or a common 10% off. I think that is quite clear some concern should be taken when even shopping from those 3rd party sites. While there may not be conclusive proof to your liking about cdkeys in particular, there are plenty of articles and well documented proof that sites like that dont operate in an entirely legit manner.

    I think it should be noted first, that what I mean by entirely legit, is that keys are sourced from the publisher themselves, with no intermediary. Anything else, by definition, is grey market and from there, illegal. While cdkeys, kinguin, and g2a to name a few may operate a business where they take your money in exchange for a key for a game, that does not in any way mean they source their keys from publishers directly. It just means the business they operate, of selling cheap keys, is legit. In the sense that you get the product you pay for. I think this is a distinction that I should have noted before.

    If you want some more information on 3rd party resellers, there is plenty of info out there. This article by Polygon is decent. In their research to find out the source of an indie game they bought on kinguin, they realized it had passed through 3 or 4 hands before they ended up with it... This by definition, is grey market.

    The consensus that 3rd party resellers of grey market keys not being legitimate isnt disputed anywhere. This is known. So there need not be a rebuttal for that.

    Im not sure what else I can say to make the points clearer. If you want a completely legitimate copy of a game that the publisher is aware of and gets money for, you dont buy from grey market sites. If you are taking issue with the voracity of my statement that cdkeys is 3rd party/grey market... well, what would change your mind there? You can easily send them an email inquiring how they sell such cheap games and ask if they can provide a source for where they get their cheap keys, and if they are straight from the publisher. They wont be able to say yes.

    If you want to check whether a site is legit or not, keyradar is fairly good. They dont have every website out there listed, and dont provide details on why a site is listed the way it is when you search, but it can be inferred that if it isnt among the likes of Steam, etc. that it is 3rd party/grey market.

    Lastly, regarding the statement I made about piracy, you took my statement entirely out of context :p I wasnt saying that those who buy from 3rd party sites are pirating, just asking how buying a grey market key that the publisher didnt authorize, and doesnt get money for, is different from piracy where you pay nothing, and get the same game that the publisher didnt authorize, and doesnt make a profit on.

    Anyways, the information is out there, and this is quite far off topic now, so I'll quit here.

    Cheers

    Edit: Just thought of this. If you want definitive proof cdkeys isnt selling a legit copy of F1 2015, just send codies an email asking what their verified retailers for f1 2015 are. They should be more than happy to give you a list, or you could simply ask if cd keys is a legit seller of their game. :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2015
  19. Revvin

    Revvin Member

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    And still you provide no proof to back your statements of illegality, just more blanket statements and troll like behaviour
     
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  20. nate

    nate Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    You are calling the wrong person a troll, pal.

    Just because you may disagree with someone or do not understand what they are saying, does not make them a troll. I wont say anymore beyond that.

    As for F1 2015 from that site. I gave you all the information you needed to do your diligence and research it yourself. The information is aplenty, and readily available on how those sites operate.

    As for a credible source that you seem to want as definitive proof... I contacted codemasters to see what they had to say about cdkeys... correspondence to follow:

    Me:
    "Hi there,
    I just have a quick question about where to buy an authorized and legit copy of Formula 1 2015 on PC.
    I came across a website selling a very cheap key to the game and I am wondering if they are legitimate and sourced their keys from you. I would prefer to buy from a legitimate retailer and not some grey market seller.
    The website is known as "cdkeys.com" and this is the listing for the game: http://www.cdkeys.com/pc/games/f1-2015-pc-cd-key
    That is about $20 less than the retail price on Steam. Could you share some insight on if this is a legit deal?
    Thanks for the time,
    Nathan"

    Codies response:
    "Thank you for submitting your recent request to Codemasters Customer Services
    concerning F1 2015.
    We do not recommend purchasing from that site, as they
    obtain their keys from illegitimate sources not from Codemasters or its
    distributors.
    You can purchase the game directly from Steam or from our own
    website.
    Hope this helps.
    Kind regards
    Rob
    Codemasters Customer
    Services"

    So, there you have it. Quite clear that cdkeys is an illegal key seller that isnt in any way authorized to sell those keys by the developer. So, you can buy at your own risk. Many of the keys they sell probably will work. That was never the point. The point is that they are either outright illegal, and sourced from the methods I listed above, or plainly grey market. :p

    The point of this was to not just attack that website, or offend you... but to enlighten on how they operate, because frankly, they arent 100% safe.

    If you still dont believe this, contact codies yourself like I mentioned. They got back to me in 1 days time.

    Just be smart where you buy games from! If the deal looks too good to be true, it is... Games dont sell 50% off at launch.

    Anyways, I hope those that do have the game enjoy it. :)

    Cheers all
     
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