...I just witnessed a total mental breakdown.. the first I saw... and it gave me shivers.. So an hour ago I was at the post station to pick up a package they could not deliver (needed my signature etc).. and there was a barefoot woman sitting there.... alongside the long queue of people waiting for their turn. She was babbling weird stuff and insulting everyone, literally everyone on planet earth and was babbling on and on... ...I could not help but had to laugh silently although I knew that she seemed to be mentally challenged maybe from drug abuse or alcohol or whatever. Then she cried for a glass of water, but of course nobody in line had a glass of water in their pockets.. so after she yelled for water for several minutes, an employee gave her water. She instantly began insulting everyone in line that we would have let her die etc.. Some guy she knew was in the queue and when it was his turn he called her so she went to the counter... (it is also a bank) and she obviously tried to get some cash from her bank account but the teller did not let her because she had no ID to verify her identity. After some insulting and crying she was told that there wasn't even money on her account because her account was garnished by some debt holders or something. She burst in tears and told that she converted her account into a "P-Konto" .. (a P-Konto in germany is an account that protects the money on your account up to a specific amount, so that no debt holder can grab the money under a certain limit. The limit is set so that you are still able to pay rent, electricity and food etc. Everything over this limit is not protected. But you have to convert your account into this "P-Konto" yourself... if you don't do it in time they get all money on it. You also cannot save money on it because money left on the account from the last month will be no longer protected)... ... and that the bank had no right to give away her money. Then a boy told her "to shut the fuck up" and then it escalated. She went rampage and was yelling and crying and shouting ... she was desperate.. she cryed that she has no shoes, no home, no family, no friends... that she only drank water the last weeks and did not eat since then, that she had to watch her family burn when she was sixteen (she was about 50y old) and that she's ill, lives on the street but sometimes is so desperate that she goes to an "asylum seekers' hostel" where 60 male asylum seekers allow her to stay the night only if they can have sex with her. So when she goes there about 20 men rape her every night.... ..and I stood at the counter.. shocked.. an employee in front of me.. speechless and also shocked... Ok it could be all made up, she could be ill... hallicinations or similar... but no.. she was so desperate.. I never heard someone cry so much and hard... I don't know what to do with it.. that was intense.. and shocking.. and sad... but what can I do about it? What's a proper reaction to it? I feel ashamed for just "ignoring" it... like everybody else there. But it felt like my hands were tied at this moment. I don't think that I could've done anything that made her feel better in this situation. I hope nobody recorded it. Anyone here witnessed similar mental breakdowns? I wasn't prepared for this one...
I once have been clinical psychologist. Just saying. What you could do for her? If her story is true, doing somethign for her in the meaning of easing her life and problems "en passant" - you probably could do little or nothing. So do not torment yourself there. No use, no point, no reason, no moral obligation to do so. Your options were limited to the situation in place. You could have called the police if you had a cellphone, and tell them to bring a worker of the Sozialpsychiatrischer Bereitschaftsdienst with them. And depending on the factors (her being armed?, or maybe infectous?, you being physically capable or not?), you could assess whether or not you were the right guy to guard her, hold her back, protect her from attackling bystanders, or whatever - whatever the factors in that situation may have been. And that's it. I know that it is expected of people today to always feel morally and emotionally affected, and to claim moral responsibility for all evils in the world and then "do somethign about them". Its just hot air 99 out of 100 times. Wischiwaschi. My advise is: don't try to be a good human. Just be a human. See things sober, realise that your part in this story has come to an end, and leave it behind. When you have crossed the river, you do not shoulder the boat and carry it around. I often got accused to be cold-hearted, or not sentimental enough, but of course I have emotions like everyone else. I just do not allow them to run the show in my house completely. See things sober a bit, reasonable. The story has been told, so turn the page and move on to the coming chapters. This story you told: it's over, as far as you are concerned. Also this. You are yourself, and you are not owned by anyone. Nobody, may he live in happiness or despair, has any claim to make over your life and your action. You do not owe him. You are nobody's slave. You can voluntarily do somethign for him, if you think you can - but having an obligation to allow beign owneed by the other you have not. Also, be certain that it is indeed your voluntariness, and not a pseudo-voluntariness you accepted only due to collective pressure. Only where you causally are responsible for the situation the other is in, you owe something to the other. What you voluntarily do, is your buiness, and yours alone. But a claim over you the other has not. You are not responsible for the life this women was living. So again, stop tormenting yourself. Its no use in doing that. P.S. And since you asked for personal stories, beside the psychology thing, when I was a student, I once witnessed a person collapsing from epilepsy. The women fell at the counter of a supermarket, and her head plopped on the floor and I though this must be how it sounds when a coconut drops to the ground. People around shied away, and froze, I forced her on her back, grabbed some shirt from a stand and put it under her bleeding head and pressed something hard - don't know what it was, just anything in reach - between her teeth, and just staid there and held her head, stroking her hair. I shouted at the women at the cashdesk when she finally would consider to call for an ambulance!? Ten minutes later or so, the medics arrived, and I stood up and left and never thought about it again. - You see, different to you there was a little I could do, I immediately recognised that the woman had an epilleptic attack. But the important point of the story that you should focus on, is the last sentence: I stood up and left and never thought about it again. My role in that story was over. No need to stare back. Hope this helps you to get over your experience.
as i said.. nothing. I don't think it was possible at this moment to help her. Here are places where people can help professionally. Since she was not alone at this moment, a calm and obviously sane man was with her.. it seemed that it was not the first time he saw her having a breakdown like this. Maybe he knows how to handle this and what's the matter with her. At a situation like this I think it was impossible as a stranger to calm her down. The man with her tried to comfort her calmly but did not really have success. They were gone when I went outside the building. And tbh I don't know how I could've helped her. With money?.. yeah that's gone after a day... bring her somewhere where people can help her? Maybe the dude already tried, maybe she already receives help. I'm not the type of guy who interferes in someones life. That sounds harsh but I did not see a reasonable possibility to help her.
What a lack of worth you must put on another human being that's made in God's image... Only an empty and void person has no compassion or love or concern for the hurting in this world.
given that it's made in God's image... sry but can we keep any kind of religion out of this topic? It has nothing to do with the thing happened today, and because I'm far from a religious person (atheist), so any religious stuff doesn't bother me anyway. I think what skybird describes is a form of self-protection, to not let specific thoughts keep burying into your mind because at some point they will hurt you more than they help others and get you down. It's not fair to talk of an empty and void person. Maybe you can handle the pain of the world, maybe your way of life allows you to do so. But not everyone's like that. And not everyone can deal with such things and think about the unfairness in the world constantly. That's what I understood from skybird's post.
Well with all due respect I have a right to post my opinion as has anyone. So I reserve the right to post my belief and fact that we are made in God's image. You are welcome to disagree. I'm not going to however entertain any silly nonsense arguing with a fool about this - I have made my point as is my right and I'm content to leave it at that. Thanks
One man's god is another man's devil. Lets leave religion out of this - the one thing that has caused more brutality, cruelty, hate, intolerance and suffering in the world and mankind'S history, than any other of man's great thoughts and imaginations. If anything, I am Chan Buddhist, btw. - I certainly do not believe in deities of any kind, form, shape, idea or conception. Buddhism is radical empirism. I do not even just "believe". But just pulling ylour leg a bit - if I indeed were made in the image of the god you believe in - what does this tell you about that god then? Kidding only. Lets not discuss religions here. Its a game forum, and religious discussions on the internet can quickly degenerate into massacres were no prisoners are taken. Telling by experience. What I am about is: to not let emotion tyrannize reason, and to understand that we always only live in the timeless moment that we call the present. The future does not exist, we only hold expectations and fears about it, and we hold them in the present moment. The past does not exist, for it is only our memories of things no more existing, and we remember them in this present moment. There is no past and no present but only our hopes and memories that we hold in the present moment. But we miss the present if not leading our minds always back to it - since it tends to be distracted all too easily by memories, hopes, fears, interpretations - all the stuff that is not real. SBTM gave me the impression that he somehow took a blow and felt down about what he just experienced, and that it occupied his mind. I wanted to show or tell him, that there is no reason in doing so, and that it alraedy is something that is no more existing. Focus on the present moment - its all there is. That was all. sbtm did what he did, it cannot be made differently or changed now, the story is over, his role in it has ended, so let it not occupy his mind. It makes no difference to things gone by if you let the past occupy the present mind. Only makes you missing the present. Its not the things themselves that trouble us - but our interpretations of them. P.S. One last thing, however. Love and compassion never ever have saved a single human from misery. It pays no bills and bakes no bread, it stops no bullets in flight, it ends no starvations and heals no diseases and repairs no broken economic systems that push people into poverty. It was always the deed, no matter what motivated it, that made a difference. And deeds have preconditions to be fulfilled so that they can be carried out, they need preparation, skill, resources, opportunity. It is about securing yourself sufficiuent degrees of freedom to make decisions. Else you would get decided. So do not dispise reason and logic so easily - they are that decide wether your deeds are helpful - or even add to the damage, or simply are pointless. "Meaning it well" - means nothing, and leads nowhere. Its just wallowing in sentimental emotions. And that helps only one man in the world: the one who wallows in these self-flattering emotions. Such an individual indeed feels proud of himself, then.
You're aware that, according to your belief, your god also made that fool in his image? So who are you to judge his reasoning as nonsense? If you want to believe in distortions such as the statement in your sig, fine. But using this ideology to disparage the beliefs of others is not very...christian/brotherly/altruistic.
She sounds like a total nut job. I would have told her to stfu as well. Even if it is all true she has no right to go out in public and act like that. Disgraceful. Maybe rather than feeling sorry for herself she should do something about it to improve her situation. Get counselling, do some study, get a job, medication to stabilise herself, get off drugs or whatever. I am so sick of hearing about people who blame everyone else for their own situation, take some responsibility woman, the world doesn't owe you anything. My rant over, lol.
One does not know what she was. She could also have been mentally ill, deranged. That's why I mentioned the social-psychiatric service being called via police.
“Do not believe in anything simply because you have heard it. Do not believe in anything simply because it is spoken and rumored by many. Do not believe in anything simply because it is found written in your religious books. Do not believe in anything merely on the authority of your teachers and elders. Do not believe in traditions because they have been handed down for many generations. But after observation and analysis, when you find that anything agrees with reason and is conducive to the good and benefit of one and all, then accept it and live up to it.” Buddha quotes (Hindu Prince Gautama Siddharta, the founder of Buddhism, 563-483 B.C.) @Skybird I'm not a buddhist (or religious in any way) but dealt with all kinds of philsophies, spiritual considerations and systems and found that quote a perfect guide throughout my life - specially in these times of chaos, false idols & hypes of any kind.
@Fairman, that is a very famous quote, from the Kalamas-Sutra, and it is one of my most favourite pieces of written text ever, and it is why I said that Buddhism is radically empirical. Kalamas was a student of Siddharta, and the quote is part of the answer to one of Kalamas' questions. Its also a piece of text that is extremely unwelcomed by especially cult- and ritual-oriented practicioners of religion, or even Buddhism, not to mention exotic esoteric things. It has costed me quite some" friendships" 25 years ago, amongst people who studied alongside with me back then and who wanted to convince me to submit to Tibetan practicing, which always felt way too esoteric and too distracting and focussing on personal cults to me. Most people do not want to learn how to find truth - they only want to gain confirmation for what they take as the truth anyway. I am a quite sober man, i stick with scientific methodology, with reason and logic, I am nevertheless aware that even these have their limits (as Spock tells so nicely in one movie: logic is the bginning of wisdom, but not its end...), and so the old Chan, which i consider to be the culmination point of Buddhism, suits me well, since it is no religion at all, more a state of mind, a stance you take on things and life, a mental evolution, an attitude towards what you perceive, if you want. There cannot be several kinds of truth, but always just one, if there are several ones claimed to be real, all except one necessarily must be wrong. Terms and names of things are never the things themselves, and any name for what cannot be named, necessarily must be wrong and misleading. Wu-wei, doing without sticking to it or attaching oneself to the deed, are of the essence. Taoism, LaoTse, Chan, karuna, radical empirism, scientifc reason and methodology, the creating and testing of theories without ever implying that scinece does more than "inventing" theories - all that falls in its right place for me. I do not consider this to be religious, I am no religious man at all. Its a bit like with Vulcans. Vulcans have emotions for sure, says the series, they just have learned the discipline to not let them command their lives to have misery forming up from chaos imposed by amok-running sentiments, and the tool of taming them was insight, and reason. Well, that may not be completely Buddhist. But it gets quite close to it. You greeted me by starting with a quote, and so I close by answering you with a quote as well: "Mind is filled with radiant clarity, so cast away the darkness of your old concepts. Free yourself of everything." - Huang Po, 6th Patriarch of Chan. But in the end, it does not need anyone to travel around the globe to find enlighted minds and wise men. If only you understand that words are just carrying media of the message, but not the information itself itself, you can skip Huang Po or Siddharta and instead focus on for example Meister Eckhart - and still get told pretty much the same message. Drama and confusion arises where people start to take metaphors as literal truth. This is what makes religions and cults so dangerous.
I did not want to break loose a discussion about religions. It's just for me a very unsatisfying answer when you're told that basically the love of God will heal the pain of this woman. So yeah, no offense, but that's too easy... and does not work at all in my rational world. Sure everybody has the right on their opinions, but that includes.. well... everyone.
I think no harm has been done. The doctor quoted me and criticised me, but as I already said in my first reply to you: I have been called cold-hearted and unsentimental before, he was not the first accusing me over such claims, nor will he be the last one. I only think he did not really understand what I was about. I also think on the other hand that you have understood me quite well. There is a French adventure movie with Philippe Noiret and Sophie Marceau, and in one scene they tell another very nice quote, something like this, from my mind: "Strong and noble is the one whose eye can bear everything, but whose heart still feels everything."
There's no need to have an imaginary friend telling us what to do to build a solid moral and ethical structure. Humans, just like any other animal, are nothing more than matter, only matter with a conscience. Funny to see how the godly guy is the first (and only) to insult people.
I actually see it the other way round : Primarly concsiousness (and a resulting conscience/integrity) = Energy - with matter around , which makes the job so damn hard while it all could be very easy actually... But that's the path we obviously have to walk down (or up in best case) @sbtm It might look off-topic discussing such topics, but to me it feels totally connected with your initial story...thx btw.
I personally don't think it matter if one believes in a god or not (I can respect both views). While we are not obligated to help our fellow humans, it would be a sad world if no one helped these people and they froze or starved to death without exception. Usually someone helps out. On my best days i try to help those in such situations. On my worst days, I say "Sorry I can't help you" or embarrassingly some smart remark when i was younger. How do you help someone like that? For one person just trying to go about their lives like myself, the sad fact is the answer is basically CASH. Even if it only helps them for one night - a little less misery in the world is good. I remember a roommate years ago brought over a homeless man to stay over. The other guys in the house went apesh*t - "what the FFFF are you doing?!?!?!" rightfully so - dude could have slit all our throats. But anyway, yeah, cash helps.
Any wholehearted friendly gesture might help but it also depends on the momentary situation & circumstances as you should maintain your personal integrity as well as the integrity of the person you're trying to help....difficult decision cause that can always backfire on you or the one in need....in Berlin for example there are a lot of homeless ppl trying to make money by selling kinda "homeless newspapers" at the subway (with good info here and there because no mainstream) with a certain percentage from their sales left for themselves...no matter if I buy one or give them a dime , I always look them in the eye, being friendly, showing respect (as long as they do too and even if I have no money left and have to deny)for not to make it an act like throwing a bone from your last meal at them, like a beaten dog you wanna get rid off....