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New FFB with Accuforce V2

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by irishtim7, Jun 24, 2021.

  1. irishtim7

    irishtim7 New Member

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    The new Force Feedback with the Accuforce V2 wheelbase is... well... not good. Not good at all. At first I was loving it while driving the DTM 95 Merc. Felt very good except for one thing. The steering had a slight grainyness to it. feels like a rumble strip kerb when you turn the wheel on smooth pavement. It gets more pronounced as you turn in. All in all not bad in this car. Took the 92 DTM M3 for a spin and same impressions. I can live with this.

    However, after seeing some other Accuforce users share their experiences via discord I decided to do some more testing. Hopped in the FRJr next. The grainy feel is much worse in this car. It's annoying. Again, imagine a rumble strip feeling with every turn of the wheel. Took out the C7 GT3. Even worse. Almost unbearable. It's like the whole circuit is a rumble kerb.

    I removed all smoothing via the wheelbase as suggested. I'm not using Sim Commander to add any canned effects. I'm running only game FFB. Here are my game settings.

    FFB Strength = 100
    FFB Linearity = 100
    FFB Min Force = 0
    FFB Max Force 85
    Stationary Friction = 50
    Engine Vibrations = 15
    Bump Amp = 0
    Gearshift Effects = 7
    Gamepad rumble is off

    Increasing Bump Amp makes this problem worse. I also attempted to smooth this out with Sim Commander but had to max out the smoothing effect to remove it. Obviously, this numbed every other effect and was not fun to drive.

    So my questions are:
    1.) Did the devs test the new FFB with an Accuforce base?
    2.) Is this Accuforce not interpreting the forces correctly?
    3.) What's going to be done to correct this?

    I really don't want to have to sell my 1-month old wheelbase and 2 wheels I've invested a boatload of coin on.
     
  2. Torque Spike

    Torque Spike New Member

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    Hi Tim, Have you added smoothing back in and retested? I am running 15% and I dont feel any graininess. I thought it felt really good and much improved from previous FFB.
     
  3. Paul Darke

    Paul Darke Moderator Beta tester

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    I have added this to our bug tracker.
     
  4. irishtim7

    irishtim7 New Member

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    Yes I’ve tried to add in smoothing but had to max it out for it to go away. This numbed all the other effects and was not good. 15 didn’t do anything. Strange that you don’t have this issue.
     
  5. irishtim7

    irishtim7 New Member

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    After seeing a post in another thread about the Engine Vibrations causing the grainy feel I did some more testing with this at zero. Can confirm running this at zero helps a lot. C7 GT3 is bearable to drive now. The underlying curb feeling while turning is still there, however. Smoothing, at moderate levels, will not remove it.

    Additionally, I pulled up Sim Commander and turned off Game FFB completely. Turned on Foundation FFB and this removed the problem. No more grainy feel. As a whole, running it like this is a step backwards. It's not good overall. I didn't really have time to try and fine tune it this way though. My guess is you could probably get close to the old FFB feel by bypassing the game FFB. Kind of defeats the purpose though IMO.
     
  6. KudBkuik

    KudBkuik Active Member

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    How much smoothing have you tried using? With AC-ffb, I used to run it around 200%
     
  7. Wayne Whitmore

    Wayne Whitmore New Member

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    When trying to use the new FFB I had very bad grainy feeling and little or no connected feel to the road or kerbs.
    The is what I did to make a setup I was happy with. Not perfect but very nice to drive. No grainy feel anymore.

    Please Note: Oversteer / Understeer feelings are no longer like the previous FFB. This is the same for all wheels, it is just the way it now works.
    Accuforce users (and others) should ignore this message and delete all previous profiles before starting with the new FFB. Deleting the “Controlset folder” is the best for a new start. It gets rebuilt on start up. If worried about deleting just rename the folder to “ControlsetOLD”.
    upload_2021-6-25_16-39-16.png

    What we have to do is remap all wheel , pedal & key board functions when starting the game.
    In the setting screen a fresh control set folder will show just these. (Select Accuforce) and go through mapping all functions to be used. Be sure to map buttons for multiplier + and - , These will be used while driving to set your desired feel.
    upload_2021-6-25_16-39-45.png upload_2021-6-25_16-39-51.png

    After mapping finished then set in game FFB settings as shown in the pictures. (Explanations of why at the end).
    upload_2021-6-25_16-40-22.png
    upload_2021-6-25_16-40-32.png

    Before using the new FFB we need a basic Sim Commander 4 profile set up like the pictures below.
    Wheel mode setting is very important. 6 Responsive (Peaks Allowed)
    upload_2021-6-25_16-40-58.png

    upload_2021-6-25_16-41-9.png

    After going into the game and when leaving the pits the individual FFB multiplier setting needs to be set for each car.
    Keep adjusting until happy with the feel.
    upload_2021-6-25_16-41-39.png
    My key bind is F to go up and D to go down. Range will most likely be from 2.0 to 0.5.

    For anyone keen to read now the explanations.
    The initial settings felt very gravely and did not transmit the sensations of track bumps or kerbs of different kinds in a way that was nice to drive. Any change in track surface would either just come through as a big knock or continual knocking or nothing at all.

    I used the Formula Trainer to dial in the wheel at SPA. What I was trying to achieve was the visuals of the car wheels moving be mimicked in the FFB movement of my wheel. Open wheeler car made this very easy to see and get set up.

    The struggle was that I needed to let the game bumps be strong enough to come through at the same time not overpowering feeling the what the tyres were doing. The balance had to come from a combination of the game settings and SC4. The grainy feeling was coming from the FFB multiplier that was needed to be set fairly high for driving feel but this was accentuating messages the wheel was receiving about the track surface.

    The key came from using 100% of the game bumps (although canned) and the highest setting in SC4 (6 Responsive Peaks Allowed). This allowed the FB multiplier per car be wound down a great deal.

    The LAT G-Force setting in SC4 brings back a little of the over / under steer feeling and avoids any loose feeling about the centre wheel position
    I hope other have the same result as I have had.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2021
  8. irishtim7

    irishtim7 New Member

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    I had to max it out so yeah 200% I think. That made everything else feel like shite.
     
  9. irishtim7

    irishtim7 New Member

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    Thanks Wayne, for providing details. I'll give this a go later this afternoon. I will say that I did try rebuilding my profile yesterday. I just did not delete the controlset folder. I used the Raceroom Accuforce profile and built upon that. That was complete trash. They have inverted feedback checked and the steering was not 1:1. It was more like 1.5:1 meaning I had to move the wheel 50% more to get it to turn. I opened up the controlset files and compared the values to my old set and they were the same. Maybe a fresh start will change this, but I'm certainly going to be backing up my old profile before I do.
     
  10. KudBkuik

    KudBkuik Active Member

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    I would suspect that the base AccuForce preset was not optimized for the new ffb. Creating a new profile from scratch should go a long way to solving your issues. I experienced ffb issues with RR-ffb with past updates and had to start from zero to get things sorted (both with the AccuForce and SimuCube).

    On SimuCube, the new ffb is working very well, aside from the Engine-vibes causing Grainy ffb.
     
  11. irishtim7

    irishtim7 New Member

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    Still fine-tuning it to my liking, but after following Wayne's suggestions and settings I've been able to dial out the grainy feel for the most part.

    I had to up the game force feedback smoothing to 20%. I can still feel it but it is much more subdued. You have to really be focusing on it to notice.

    Wayne - curious on your addition of the Lateral G-Force effect. testing with this off and on I didn't think it played a role in reducing the grainy feel. From what I understand this is just creating a heavy wheel under load of cornering, no? I already think the new FFB does this quite well. Not sure I see the need for this. Just wondering your thoughts. I might add in the Rear Traction Loss effect but at this point I think the game has it pretty spot on.

    I also felt no need to add in any bump amplification. I can feel the curbs just fine with this at zero.
     
  12. Wayne Whitmore

    Wayne Whitmore New Member

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    @irishtim7 thanks for trying glad it helped a little. For the bump amplification 100% is what I needed to match the visuals with what I was feeling. I am watching the front of the car go up and down over bumps but nothing through the wheel. This for me was mostly on straights. Bumps near corners get conveyed very well because the wheel is loading up with the lateral forces being applied but when on straights this is not the case. Some examples to try are mountain straight at Bathurst, Road America and the first 6ks of the Norschliffe. (All individual taste of course.)
    Kerb feeling is not connected to the bump amplification the game handles that separately.

    You are correct the Lat -G did not effect the grainy feeling , it did two things for me , first was keeping out any looseness when the wheel is near the centre (straight ahead) position and secondly it brings back a little of the oversteer feeling.

    The game does not interpret DOR correctly unless the SC4 profile is set to 900 deg. Luckily we can change each car in game for a different DOR if wanted. Personally I don't have the wheel moving in game so I just set for best feel.

    The Rear Traction loss has always been interesting. For all sims when I use it I get a disconnected feel. My research has shown it is primarily for motion rigs (mine is not) . I did try it again when trying to get the wheel set up with the new FFB but it continued to be as it has always been for me, not useful.
     
  13. Eric Rowland

    Eric Rowland Well-Known Member

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    Accuforce v1 user here....Thanks Wayne!
     
  14. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    Is it? The devs say "bump amplification" works by increasing all vertical forces, so it should include kerb feeling too, I suppose.
     
  15. Wayne Whitmore

    Wayne Whitmore New Member

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    Comparing some FFB graphs I would have to say you are correct but it just does not come through the wheel for me as so.
     
  16. RWB Charger

    RWB Charger Well-Known Member

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    Although I praised the FFB on Accuforce at the start something is not right, I had a custom profile which wasn't feeling so great so last night I decided to delete the lot and start fresh.

    Problem is where I was running 50% strength before update in game I am now at 80% I even put it on 100% and it still feels light, for instance I tried the Porsche GT3 and had to double the per car multi which did give more weight but it also took it into the clipping zone, that has never happened before on any sim?

    At 100% it should be ripping my arms out!

    All of the above fixes require the use of 'fudging' it with SC4 which should not be necessary, I run cloud tuning as I do with all sims, wheel at 900, 100% strength, all default smoothing etc, i use default strength as well as responsive just doesn't feel right.

    I compared my file to a Fanatec DD one and there are some differences but not much, most notable was the waves and the stop spring, there is also a setting in there for rumble strip magnitude 0.15 that could be used to sort the kerb feeling, haven't tested yet but will try, I think rather than having to 'fudge' it with SC4 it needs fixing at sim level as you can use Accuforce without running SC4 and it feels fine in other sims.

    Screenshot.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. irishtim7

    irishtim7 New Member

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    Yeah, It's not the best still. Gone is the ability to modify the control set file. I tried this but the game just rewrites the old values.

    Personally, I wouldn't use cloud tunings. I thought those were shite with the old FFB. The cloud tunings are probably using data from the old FFB. My settings are not far off from what Wayne posted above. It's decent but not perfect. I'd suggest using that as a starting point and ditch the cloud tunings.
     
  18. RWB Charger

    RWB Charger Well-Known Member

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    I have tried with and without cloud tunings and it feels pretty similar tbh, I modified the control set and it stuck, put read only on it.
     
  19. irishtim7

    irishtim7 New Member

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    when you deleted your old controlset file, what was the name of the new controlset in game that you used to start fresh? I remember doing that and choosing the Accuforce EVO and it was complete trash. I built on the one just named Accuforce and it seemed to be better. I'm running SC4 at 60% and have plenty of FFB strength.
     
  20. RWB Charger

    RWB Charger Well-Known Member

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    The one called Accuforce yes, didn't see any other one called Accuforce EVO?