Tire temperatures?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by rad, Apr 5, 2016.

  1. Metalogic

    Metalogic Well-Known Member

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    Ah, okay - so that would mute my voice input for Teamspeak or the other way around (only use TeamSpeak when I specify)?

    Ah yes - I've got that app (Proracing dashboard) working on my Kindle Fire HDX tablet already :) Don't think Dashmeter Pro works on a Kindle Fire HDX. though, unless I was to root it :rolleyes:
     
    Last edited: Apr 7, 2016
  2. Raaf

    Raaf Active Member

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    Can you bind TeamSpeak to one of your wheel buttons?
     
  3. Metalogic

    Metalogic Well-Known Member

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    I have shame pad rather than a wheel, but the principle should be the same, I'll check, as that may be the best option
     
  4. Christian G

    Christian G Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    Don't know, using mumble. But in mumble that's possible so I assume ts should be able to do the same, at least with usb/directinput controllers.
     
  5. rad

    rad Well-Known Member

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    I just tested how temperatures behave when car is left standing still. After around 10 minutes, they dropped by about 2 degrees. I was never good at physics, but I'm fairly sure this is very wrong.

    It's not just about controlling them or even know exact values. It's about well... simulating real life conditions. You are leaving the pits? Be careful because you have cold tires and you don't have full grip (of course it depends on car - many racing series allow to use warmers). You just spun out? Be careful in next couple of corners, because rear tires are probably overheating and you can easily spin out again, etc.

    I think ISIMotor considers temperatures which you can read (labeled as inside, middle and outside) as temperatures of tread, rather than core. There is even parameter in tire file called AirTreadRate which determines how fast heat is transferred from tread to inside.

    Yes, even shifter if you really want :p
     
  6. Metalogic

    Metalogic Well-Known Member

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    I don't know, if the tyres are not moving, they're not generating friction, so would cool down if they've been getting hot from being driven, no? Or do you mean the temps drop even if you've never driven on them?
     
  7. Raaf

    Raaf Active Member

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    I think he means the temperature is dropping too slow?
     
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  8. Gopher04

    Gopher04 Well-Known Member

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    Yes you can, it called whisper, you just have to assign the button, I think it's in settings.
     
  9. Christian G

    Christian G Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    Idk what Karsten/S3S actually did code-wise to simulate a core temp rather than a surface temp. Just pointing out that going the core temp route could be a more realistic approach as those seem to be the ones actual race engineers are looking at.
     
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  10. goldtop

    goldtop Well-Known Member

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    Core temperatures are important for knowing when tyres are running within their designed limits of optimum performance....pressures (amongst other things) play an important part in this. Lower pressure = body of tyre moves around more = more heat generated within the tyre.

    Surface temperatures are of interest mainly for 2 reasons: They indicate how the tyre is making contact with the track surface which determines grip and predicts wear.....this influences geometry settings such as camber. Too much camber = greater temperature difference across width of tyre = uneven/increased wear. Tyre pressures also influence contact with road surface and resulting wear across the width of a tyre. Ideally they are adjusted so that the temperature in the middle of the tyre is the average of the outer x inner temperatures.

    GTL/GTR2/Race07/RFactor all output data that can be read by third party software such as xd which could be used in game for real time monitoring of tyre temps or Motec i2 which can be used for more in depth setups.

    Would be great to see this in Raceroom as it would help to elevate the game towards proper sim level but I would imagine that would require huge amounts of work on the game's tyre model. Unfortunately I don't believe it will ever be a priority for the devs or indeed for many users :(
     
  11. Christian G

    Christian G Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    Well the output logic is there too, it's just that it doesn't output surface temps anymore.

    I don't disagree with what you said, especially for ruling out faulty setups surface temp can be useful. But under normal conditions the determining factor of the tyres surface temp is its core temp. The least of the energy is produced by friction at the surface (unless you're doing some doughnuts or locking your brakes), most of it comes from the core, from the rubber and air receiving work energy. So I think you could make the same observations and judgements when monitoring the core temp (as it's promoted by the links I posted earlier), just have to adjust to not looking at surface temps anymore.
     
  12. goldtop

    goldtop Well-Known Member

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    True, core temps are vital for optimum performance of the tyre compound but the amount of movement/flexing which generated these temps within the tyre are influenced greatly by the tyre pressures. Ideally engineers look for a core temp within the operating range but also monitor the surface temp to adjust pressures according to temps across the width of the tyre which is important for grip as this has a direct relationship to contact patch. An over inflated or under inflated tyre has a massive effect on the contact patch.

    My point is that tyre pressure adjustment is not currently available so even if we could monitor tyre temperature we have no way to use that info for our setup. It just takes away some of the depth of the game for me, but yeah it's probably a bone I should stop chewing on and just get on and enjoy the game.
     
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  13. Christian G

    Christian G Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    I would welcome adjustable (and monitorable) tyre pressure as well. It's one of those things that are seemingly small additions but would be vital for proper race simulation. But I also guess it's not an easy thing to introduce subsequently, so my hope lies in a long term introduction, don't think we'll see it soon (if at all).
     
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  14. jimortality

    jimortality Active Member

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    Does anyone have an issue with dashmeter not showing tyre wear even with it on in game. My tyre wear stays at 99%. Cheers
     
  15. ElNino

    ElNino Well-Known Member

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    Yes, g27 (and momo IIRC) tested
     
  16. rad

    rad Well-Known Member

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    @jimortality It's shown in a weird way right now. Every step shown on hud is 1% of tire wear. So you probably won't go under 90% of tire wear, because you will have no grip left :p

    If you open pitmenu during a race you will see same percentage values.

    Would be cool if it could be sorted out because it's a bit confusing.
     
  17. Fanapryde

    Fanapryde Well-Known Member

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    It does the same in the beta version of RS dash. The in-game tire hud shows about 25% wear and the App is still at 99%.
    My guess is that the API does not send right info about tires.
    Not that it matters a lot, since we can't change tire pressure anyway...

    And yes, tire temperature drops a lot faster in real than in R3E
     
  18. jimortality

    jimortality Active Member

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    So, is there an app out there that shows the correct tyre wear?
     
  19. rad

    rad Well-Known Member

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    It is correct tire wear. You just need to learn how to read those percents. Try some car with high tire wear (for example FRJr, Audi TT) or join server with wear multiplier and compare those percents with graphic on hud.
     
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  20. Fanapryde

    Fanapryde Well-Known Member

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    Yes, but the API does not send the right info, so no external app gets it right...