Touring car vs. Grand tourer

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Maskerader, Nov 5, 2021.

  1. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    I read some people were upset with DTM moving to GT3 cars, because, quote "these aren't touring cars, so it's not DTM anymore".

    So I've got a question: what's the difference between a touring car and a grand tourer? I mean, GT500 cars in Super GT are built to Class 1 regulations, same as DTM cars until 2021, but they are called GT, no? But since Class 1 cars are racing prototypes they can't be called TC nor GT.
     
  2. Vale

    Vale Well-Known Member

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    For me a TC is like the BTCC Sierras and M3s or Group A cars of the 80s and 90s and those used until DTM93/94, basically a modified street saloon or hatchback (or Volvo estate) which still looks much like the roadgoing version.

    A GT is more a coupé or sportscar, like a 911.

    The problem or me is when series such as DTM20 use a touring saloon model as the base silhouette but the underpinnings and engine are totally out of place - see NASCAR/GTOs too.
     
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  3. Balrog

    Balrog Well-Known Member

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    I think the traditional difference is that grand tourers are usually built around sportcars, while touring cars are based on mass-produced models and therefore the style of racing is also different, GT cars are more on the endurance/durability side, while touring car racing is sprint-based with more aggressive racing style.

    But of course there has been numerous exceptions thougout the years. To be honest, modern DTM was one of my favorite categories, both the quality of the field and the cars were amazing in my opinion. And now it's just another GT3 series, probably not even the most prestigious of that. The only reason I kept watching is because I'm a big supporter of both RB boys. So obviously, the finale was a massive letdown for me, so I won't bother in the future.
     
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  4. Arthur Spooner

    Arthur Spooner Well-Known Member

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    From my understanding they are both originally street legal cars that have been modified for racing purposes. The difference mostly lies in what kind of a car the street legal version is. Is it a sports car to begin with --> GT, is it a "normal" practical mass production kind of car --> touring. Of course this kind of classification is not really sharp and cars like for example a BMW M3 could be considered both. Yes, it has a lot of power, but surely also is more a "normal" car than say a Lamborghini Huracan. So the line between both is a bit blurred for sure.

    But whatever you classify as a GT or touring car, the DTM statement cited by the OP is total BS to begin with. DTM has moved from silhouette prototypes to GTs. No touring cars involved in DTM for a LOOOOONG time already. If anything, by moving to cars that are at least based on street legal cars again, they moved closer to their roots not away from them.

    Same for GT500. Neither GT, nor touring cars. They are also silhouette prototypes.

    All these cars are just labelled wrong for historical and marketing reasons. DTM and GT500 have nothing to do anymore with the cars they claim to race, but they still use the big name to keep the fans for making money. This is also the reason why I don't like either of them. The racing might be good, but if they don't have the balls to call it what it is...nah...feels dishonest to me. I don't like people putting BS right into my face... :-D
     
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  5. Balrog

    Balrog Well-Known Member

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    And then there is the GT4 category, which has always seemed to me like a weird fusion of the two.:D
     
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  6. n01sname

    n01sname Well-Known Member

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    That discussion is as old as the DTM. From a purists point of view the original DTM died after 95/96 with the end of the ITC series, which were indeed highly advanced Models on a regular TC base.
    The Class One cars from 2000 on more and more became prototypes, leaving classic TCs behind, but with a very unique State-of-the-Art feel and performance which I personally enjoyed very much (and still do - at least up to the 2012-16 cars)...which behave very different to GT3s with all their driving aids. So for me its more about the pure pleasure driving these highend- beasts. Switching to GT3 is part of that general "leveling down" (mostly due to the Corona Crisis and therefor resulting economical issues) and so just the Brand DTM is left BUT for a more customer/average fan oriented series, not dominated by the interest of car manufacturers it might have been the right step (the "classic" TC spot is occupied by WTCC anyway)...
    I watched the last two DTM 21 runs and it was nice to follow actually...
     
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  7. Andy Kettler

    Andy Kettler Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    Theres only one correct answer to this: Early 90's DTM or nothing :p




    Worth a watch: 6 Video Playlist DTM History 1991-1995 with Nicki Thiim :cool:

     
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    Last edited: Nov 7, 2021
  8. anno900

    anno900 Well-Known Member

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    Agree. WTCC till 2013 are good Touring cars as well. Does anyone knows if WTCC 2013 will somewhen get latest physic/tyre update like other WTCC/WTCR?