FFB Update Discussion Thread (June 2021)

The overall FFB feels great, it's an improvement to the old system in my opinion. But the removal of smoothing options kills it completely for me. No matter what I set in the driver of my wheel (Bodnar) or ingame, there's always some graining/cracking present even on straights but when driving over some sorts of curbs the FFB goes crazy and my whole rig vibrates like a Hitachi Magic Wand. Bump amplification is set to 0. The old FFB had exactly the same issue but could be fixed by editing a line in the rcs file. Well, thanks to the removal of this helpful option that's not longer posible and if I don't want to get kicked out of my apartment due to the noise of said FFB effect. Now I have 2 options: use a gamepad or turn or of the FFB.

It feels like a joke to read that

Doing this even makes it worse on my end.

As a side note, the stationary friction still do not work. Damping in the driver (called DirectX Damping there) is set to 100%, still no dice. Why has this effect have to use damping anyway? Stationary friction in other sims like AMS2 works for me, without the need for a damping setting in the wheel driver.

Use the default SimSteeringV2 profile (the sim should detect your wheel automatically) and assign your key bindings. A new custom profile will be created. Last step is to change the FFB sliders to the recommended values. I have set them to these values:

• Strength 100
• Linearity 100
• Minimum Force 0
• Maximum Force 100
• Stationary Friction 100 (don't bother, doesn't work)
  
• Engine Vibrations 0
  
• Bump Amplification 0
  
• Shift Effects 10

 

Yes. But regardless of what it's set to raceroom will reset it to whatever wheel rotation is correct for a particular car. Eg 540. If you have match setup enabled in the video options your wheel will always line up. (Or just have the in game wheel off if playing on screens rather than VR)

There are only a couple of cars that go to 900 in game and even then you never actually use full lock anyway.

 

Agreed, but in my experience (I could be wrong), that initial calibration affects what the game will then soft lock to. So when it asks for 540 degrees, my calibrated wheel will actually be 540 degrees, rather than maybe 530 or so... because my wheel isn't accurate out of the box, the calibration is important to ensure that the virtual wheel properly matches my physical one.

In Raceroom, my steering is a few degrees out. This isn't the case for ACC for example - in the settings in-game there, my wheel is set at 880 degrees - now, when a car calls for 540 degrees, I get a 1-to-1 match to the virtual wheel.
If I keep the setting at 900 degrees in-game, then my steering won't match.

This is just the case that my G29 doesn't reach 900 degrees, but in Logitech driver, it thinks that it does... other games allow you to compensate.

Hope that makes sense - I'm fully understanding what you're saying, but I'm probably not being too clear. TL;DR - Calibration in-game is a 'required' feature for Logitech users (unless there is another trick I'm not aware of).

 

I've never adjusted SHO before. This is very nice. No more of that grainy belt-driven feeling. I feel everything. I'll spend the day with this and of course try a few things, but I think you've got some good settings here. As I raise the in car FFB the effects really start to shine. I'll be glad when my ribs heal and I can get back to normal torque settings and get the full experience, but for now this is fantastic even at lower torque levels.

 

Well, since all these FFB settings are subjective to each user, I take your comments, but they don't back up to what I'm particularly feeling, and don't back up to what I've learned over eight years of experience with FFB systems. All said and done, I liked the previous FFB, and now I like the newer FFB even more, so that's what's important for my own experience.
All users should read all the info presented and take into account what portions may or may not pertain to them and their equipment. I have spent a lot of time setting up my wheel for AC, ACC, rF2, AMS2,iRacing, R3E, and now R3E (new), and my goal is to get a good informative feeling with all of them, and adjust them so that they are somewhat similar and effective so that when switching from one SIM to another there's not such a big change in feeling.
With the new FFB in R3E, all I need to do is adjust the Bump Amp and FFB Multiplier per car/track, and I'm good to go.

 

That's what it looks like mate!
I learned that today too.

Do you change the bum amp on every vehicle?
Is that necessary? Do you get more FFB details that way?
E.g. in comparison with GT3 TCR?

 

Do I change the BA on every vehicle? So far I have only done the WTTC and the DTM, so for now the BA has stayed same for both at 73. Just had to lower the Multiplier on the DTM vs. the WTTC, but only one step from 1.6 to 1.5. WTTC was at Mantorp and DTM was at Daytona Road, so Daytona probably was adding some additional surface character.
After some time with more cars/tracks, I imagine I'll settle on an average BA, and just adjust Multi to suit each situation.
I do need to add a note here that, FFB feeling with a default set up will feel different from what you'll feel with an adjusted set up. Case in point was the DTM, as the FFB felt better after adjusting the set up for my needs. In other words, you can feel that the FFB is actually part of the car/track/set up physics now. I would speculate and say that if we eventually go through all the cars, we will feel some differences in the FFB details and levels which is normal, and there may be a need to adjust for some +/- inconsistent characteristics, or you could just deal with it the way it is, and chalk it up to that's just the way that car may be. Personally, I want to get all the info from the car I can, no matter what it is.

Two other points I would make is that 1. I don't get tank slap anymore. 2. I can feel the tire limits and catch slides more effectively than with the previous FFB. Speaking specifically with the G920, I found that if I adjusted the Linearity too low, I started to get that tank slap effect coming back in when making high torque turning inputs.

 

Yeah, as I said in my original message to you Peter, if it works for you, then Great!

No hard feelings intended, I just wanted to share what I'd learned.

I have tried your settings, to try and offer some objectivity, and it's clear to me that we just like different feelings. Yours seems very light around the centre, with a big focus on smaller details like bumps and texture. Mine is more focused on weight of the vehicle and the transferring of that weight.

I still maintain though, that without the artificially amplified bumps, there wouldn't be any detail at the centre with your settings (I tried removing the Bump Amplification to confirm that, and I have a massive dead zone in the centre. I'd rather have some lateral force here, rather than the vertical force of the bump setting as that helps me control the car.)

Hopefuly our views can help others with Logitech wheels to understand what their preferences are!

 

@Lanius1984 Yes, I agree on the above. I did notice the dead zone on a straight, but I'm usually focused on other things on a straight, and as soon as I move off center into any turn action, that all goes away. My focus (since I'm just not that great) is on corner entry and exit, so I need all the bumps and texture, and tire slip feeling I can get to gage what I'm doing to keep the car maximized for grip and acceleration.
Seems like every G Series wheel is actually different from what I've seen from looking at users wheel profiles and what was needed to compensate, so yeah, anything we can impart to others is useful to helping out.

 

I believe we all need a DD!

 

I ordered the CSL DD. Fanatec wants your CC info to complete the transaction. Thanks!

 

I'm off to Brands Hatch tomorrow to see the BTCC and supporting Porsche Cup races, so, of course, I spent the evening at 'Hatch Indy with the Cup car and WTC '20.. Flippin' amazing stuff - The Cup car in particular.

 

That's quite possibly my new favourite combo, feels so good now.

 

Is there any way to remove the constant low-level 'buzz' effect? I'm guessing it's been included to inject more life into the driving feel but to me it feels cheap and gritty and annoying. Plus I doubt it's helping my wheel's longevity.

 

Engine vibe and bump amp would be two things that add that. Reduce or remove those effects of you have them running. Dirty tyres also create a rough feeling but will clean up again after a short while.

 

A DD wheel should have a cleaner, sharper and faster feedback so it might remove some of that "deadness".

 

I am split over this change with the FFB, and tend to not like it.

While there is a slight increase in subtelty maybe, it comes at the price of monumentally reducing the feel of heaviness and real physical mass of the car. The steering is so light now that it now longer provides me with the immersive and convincing illusion of that there is something of real matter and mass on the other side of the steering formulas. The cars may create more subtle effects, and have more FFB nuances, maybe this is so, but at the cost of these effects feeling so ultralight as if I blow some air on the palm of my hand and call that a weight of 1 tons. What i liked about RR, in comparison to AC Classic back in the days, that the cars felt more like heavy objects with mass that is being thrown around the corners and turns - this is gone. Now they feel as light and light-weighted and aerial-made like the cars in AC Classic compared to RR old FFB, or AC Competizione, which moved towards adding more feel of heaviness and real substantial mass to the FFB, which was good.

Honestly said, I do not like this change. Not at all. The gains are minor to me, the costs for them is way too high in my perception. The costs-gains-balance does not calcuate good for me, in the end I see a big red number. This modernization to me backfired. Immersion has suffered tremendously. I think this new way is what over time will move me away from RR more and more, and have me focussing more on ACC instead. The cars "are heavier" in there. The illusion of real mass they provide, is far more convincing. Beforte, RR and ACC were en par in this, and it was RR having had the lead on this.

 

In cases of doubt, delete or back up your C:\Users\username\Documents\My Games\SimBin folder and start from scratch.
I know it said that this should not be necessary, but one can never rule out mishaps in this department.
Several people have reported that starting with a fresh docs folder (some even re-installed the game) their issues were gone.

 

Like Skybird says it's all about "The illusion of mass"
I tried this update yesterday and the whole thing just felt washed out and flimsy. It had no real weight. Last night, I watched a SIM Racing Corner video on YouTube and he did a reinstall of the whole game. I did the same this morning and set up again from scratch.

What a difference.

To me this feels like I'm connected to the road by actual tyres. An actual sprung mass on actual tyres.
I really love the way the feedback works when the front wheels lock up. The SOP sensation when you schlew (probably not a real word) the rear out is always going to be hard to replicate but I'm getting some of that too.

I'm not sure if I had some old settings interfering with the update but if you have the time and the bandwidth.........
Nice one Sector3!

 

I'm not sure why this reinstall thing is working for people as the default profiles should be the same whatever. Unless it's old car setups that are causing the issues which is certainly a possibility.