Right. And I think a lot of us agree that there's a problem here. I'm not sure if S3S is able to making any real changes, so a tutorial may be the next best option (even if some see it as an admission of failure). Trying to pretend it's not a failure doesn't seem to be gaining them many new players, but conceding that it's a bit confusing and helping people navigate it could gain some new faces (probably not a huge number, but I'm sure any little bit helps).
I suspect that there is a licensing hell preventing them from eliminating all the Experience packs. However, I do completely agree that they are confusing, add a bunch of redundant cars, and are just all kinds of nonsense when it comes to over-complicating R3E. I don't know how much they pay for the ADAC/DTM license, or how profitable they are, so I don't know what getting rid of them would do. If they had to stay, I think the way I'd like to see it (although I have no idea how realistic this is) would for them to be a combination of a livery/driver/track pack for the already existing GTR3 class. People can then race online against the GTR3 class as their favorite driver if they want to. As for the specific rulesets, have them as an option when you create a server or play a singleplayer race. Instead of having the Experience pack selector at the top, have a ruleset dropdown when setting race options that in SP would also force all AI to use the appropriate liveries/AI and enforce all the ADAC/DTM specific rules. I also kind of worry about releasing and buying tracks one by one, because that's exactly how it is now and I think the largest source of community fragmentation. If R3E switched to this model tomorrow, there will eventually be a point where the new individual tracks will become much more numerous and you'll have the same fragmentation problem all over again. I don't have any good ideas on that front though. I just want to see some official comment on the matter. We have no idea what S3S has planned, if anything. We don't know for sure if their hands truly are tied by a stubborn parent company. There's just so little information to go off of when discussing this topic, which leads to wild speculation that for all we know could be way off, or spot on. I will say though that recent moves with the Silhouette and Prototype class are encouraging, but again. I don't know if that's part of some larger plan or if it was just a small move to appease critics.
Just because you don't need every car and track, it doesn't mean other people doesn't want to experience as much as the game offers. Every car and track in this game is unique and extremely well made which I think everyone should experience these content outside the test drive. Instead of limiting yourself to a few content in the game. And for those who wants to experience more in the game with more packs, the cost adds up to quite a ridiculous amount to the point even Forza DLC is cheap. And needing a guide to buy a game sounds absolutely ridiculous when you have many games out there that clearly lists the cost of buying their game clearly without even need any guides.
sometimes i really worry about the community i spend my leisure time in , where they can spend so much time bitching over something when at the end of the day cost next to nothing when divided by the hours played .... A game that has tried to secure its future by charging you for what you want... not what you need to be able to play... the chance to test the cars , before you buy .... And comparing it to other business models (not games) business models ... well another facepalm... but hey ..; carry on ; prove me right bored Andi
The first few laps of it were fine....its shifting to unstable and broken record now. BUT, if that's what people want to talk about
I'll say no more on this particular subject. In the end, low player numbers and a ghost town multiplayer speaks for itself. Let's see how this pans out in the coming years. Just a shame that an excellent product may not reach its full potential because of some poor business decisions. Signing out.
but you do ...... you see.... now if you had put it around the other way ..... an excellent product you say , but you want it for cheap as chips but wait a car costs about the same as a bag of chips (fries) poor business decision ... trying to guarantee a stream of income to pay developers ; investors, partners, pay licences ..; yep thats right stupid .... stupid decisions to include licenced series ...adac/dtm/wtcc/audi tt cup .... yep so if i invest 0 cents in this game what do i get ? ooops i get stuff that cost development time and a license for a track .. what do i get if i put 0 cents into any other sim ....; NOWT ; NOTHING ;Nada . ZILCH sorry its way beyond a joke ... you guys either need to suck it up because thats the reality at present of what it costs ... or de-stress and stop playing it as it obviously is making your escape chute clench fluff and hugs Andi....
Same here. My posts were never intended to be complaints, but more along the lines of "Hey, I love this sim and these devs but I notice not many people play it and I can't get any of my sim racing friends to give it a chance. I see some reasons why this could be, perhaps this is something that can be discussed on the forum". But apparently any criticism, however constructive it may be, is frowned upon and considered "bitching". Wrong. The actual price isn't that bad, but to someone unfamiliar with the store, it's packaged in a way that makes it looks twice as expensive as it is. That doesn't seem like a brilliant marketing strategy, does it? Would you advertise your bag of chips for $8 when it really only cost $4? How many people put down the $8 bag and go for another brand that's advertised for less? How many more people would buy the R3E brand of chips if it was actually advertised for $4? We just want it to be presented in a way that is less confusing so that more people will give it a chance. I can't understand why wanting more people to be involved in the game and buying more content is considered a facepalm, but here we are. Goodbye.
I think you will all find it's not the debating that's the problem, it's the repetition of the same old spew, over and over again, if I didn't know better I'd think some work for competing companies as they profess to wanting more people playing but blacken the name with every breath. You've all made your points, you don't like the business model, we get it but turning every single thread into a personal assault on the system that was in place when S3 took over is wearing a tad thin, yeah, I know this is "the business model" thread but have heard it all before in every other thread, surprised people aren't leaving in droves through the boredom, so much to talk about with future content and updates but no, let's go over the same old s**t again and again. I used to be married to someone who stamped their feet til they got what they wanted, under the patio out back now!!
I was speaking for myself, like I said. I'm not sure why you even responded because it's not relevant or even helpful.
How many of you here with all this great idès and well written post actually stand and talk to your self in the mirror and expect a answer that is satisfying? The more I read in this thread the more I think it's the lot of you ha ha... Hilarious reading keep it up Edit: NO it was not meant to assault or rediqulize anyone, just to make it more fun
The same kind of people who profess to love this game yet spend a hell of a lot of time talking about other sims on these very forums. Not that I think they work for other companies just that the sim racing community has some real hardcore fanboys that are quite ridiculous in the length they will go to just to promote their 'chosen one'. Sadly if there was a change in pricing policy or the way content was sold you can bet your bottom dollar that there will be those who will look at it from every angle to work out how they have somehow lost out if a piece of content that they both 12 months ago is now a little cheaper and they will scream to the high heavens about it and demand a refund such is the way of the world, it happened with iRacing recently when they increased the base content by including some of the older cars that had been superseded by new models. I own all the content in R3E but if it was re-packaged/re-priced I couldn't care less, I've had my enjoyment with what I bought.
Right now on the in game store I see that for me the DTM 2014 is 710 rp because I own the DTM 2013 pack. I'm informed that I will be getting this wonderful deal at a 91% discount, for me 710 rp is about $10 CAD. So if I'm getting a 91% discount does that mean the DTM 2014 pack is worth a $100. I know what you'll say, if I bought all the cars, liveries and tracks seprately maybe it would. But that's like saying I saved 90% on my new car because if I had bought every nut and bolt seperately.... Do I think that basically that same 3 cars with the same bunch of liveries is worth 710 rp because it says 2014 NO will I buy it When there's another 50% off sale most likely. And saying that you have to know how to work the store is BS You shouldn't need to out smart the system, if the vendor's system is set up as open, honest, friendly and fare.
DTM 2014 is actually a big step forward from 2013. The AI, handling, mandatory pit stop stuff and other changes make it *much* better than 2013. IMO its worth a few quid. Obviously this adds nothing to the business model discussion
So, other developers doesnt have to guarantee a stream of income to pay their developers, investors, partners or even pay license? I guess AC managed to get Ferrari and Lamborghini for free. Or pcars's Indy 500 and Le Mans license is also free of charge while ISI works for free. Other developers still need to guarantee a constant stream of revenue but somehow they are still able to sell their content at much cheaper price tag than R3E. Also, they did not have a confusing and user unfriendly store with much higher price tag than most where R3E does. They also did not have to resort to the misleading or even broken discount system or having users to buy the same cars twice or more. Or sell liveries as business model while offering options for custom liveries to even mod cars. Maybe you do not have to pay for the content, as someone like me who has to pay for them, I dont feel I am getting the value with the money I put into R3E compared to the ones I put in other games. R3E is expensive for what it provides while the experience of buying more content is convoluted and unnecessarily complex. For example, I want to buy the GTR3 content but do I buy it now and pay more money for it when a pack comes due to the broken discount system? Or I just hold back and wait for a pack? Or I just go back to AC/pcars/rfactor 2 for GT3 instead because I do not I need deal with confusing business model? Such as, I like more GT3s in AC so I pay 7 Euros to access 3 more along with another laser scanned track and also a couple more cars that I might enjoy to drive instead of sitting there wondering do I buy the content now or wait for a pack in R3E. Dont get me wrong, R3E is amazing but with this current business model and also always online, I am getting less and less keen to spend money in this game when other games made their content buying experience easier and cheaper. Whats the point of paying so much money for less content then get kicked off from the game when the internet has issues connecting to R3E servers? rfactor 2, GSCE, AC and pcars doesnt kick me out of an AI race even when I lost connection to steam entirely, it is only R3E being the exception. How would you make people wanting to spend more money in this game with a overly complex business model like this? Especially when most other games has a much simpler, cheaper and straight forward business model. With the currently low player counts and a fragmented community that owns very different combination of content, I am not surprised that the business model had still turned off quite a few people. Right, it is nice that R3E offers a handful of cars and a license track. It still doesnt mean that the business model is good or I should accept that the business model is great. It isnt, the business model is confusing, misleading at times and overly complex with high price tag. Essentially, it is a demo like the ones that rfactor 2 had been offering for years. Most of the best content that the game offers, they are still stuck behind a pricey paywall with a convoluted business model. R3E is the only game I had to whip out a calculator to calculate the cost of buying a content to the point, now, I even have an Excel spreadsheet to do so.
And here I am, having been raised in a socialist country, thinking that I'm the one struggling with free market economy.... I totally agree, the whole idea of (seasonal) discounts is just ridiculous. Back in 2000 I payed 1200 Deutschmark for my releaseday Playstation 2, just to find out that a mere year later I could have gotten it for half of that. And I'm not gonna put up with that, since then I'm constantly complaining to Sony about their appalling and intransparent business model and pricing structure, reducing prices as they wish without prior notice and selling their shit in all sorts of places and expecting me to check out where I can get the best bargain. Simply unacceptable.
My biggest issue with the business models is not so much the pricing ( although that could be handled better) but the fact that the game is always online. For instance. Ive paid well over 100 for content in this game and currently I cant play it because there are server issues. Paying all of that money and not being able to play anytime I want anywhere I want is frustrating as hell.