Adaptive AI...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by racinjoe013, Jan 1, 2020.

  1. racinjoe013

    racinjoe013 New Member

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    I swear I am getting close to not being such a pest. I almost have things worked out with everything. I just need to get the AI part setup.

    Been doing a lot of Google search reading on exactly how to train the AI using adaptive AI, but the opinions\directions seem to vary a bit. And since I couldn't find any exact directions from S3, I am a little unsure of how to do this properly.

    1.) Can you train the AI from Practice Lap sessions or does it have to be a race? Also, does the AI need to be on the track with you or will it learn even if you setup a race or practice by yourself? I'd rather do it alone because I feel like the AI is learning incorrectly when I keep getting slowed down by the other cars on the track.

    2.) Do you have to train the AI for each track individually? I imagine so because how will it learn how I run Monza by the way I run Spa. I ask only because some threads i've read say you have to run 4 or 5 different tracks and that seems odd. I would have thought it was done on a track to track basis.

    3.) How many laps or how much time does it take to learn? I have run a ton of laps on Spa so far and when I setup a race, the AI was ridiculously slow, which is saying something because i'm ridiculously slow as well. :D
     
  2. CheerfullyInsane

    CheerfullyInsane Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it only trains during race-sessions. And yes, you do have to have AI on-track for it to work.

    Sorta, kinda. What happens is that if the AI can't find info on that particular track, it'll take the average of all the tracks you've done with that particular car-class. And vice-versa for new cars on a track you've already run with a different class.
    So assuming you're fairly consistent, it should start pretty close to what you trained the other tracks for.
    Short version, the more tracks you've done, the bigger the chance the adaptive AI will hit the right spot in the first try.
    Which is where the 4-5 tracks needed come in.

    Time is irrelevant, you should only think in number of laps.
    The AAI works by comparing the average fastest lap of the AI grid to the players average lap over the last 10 laps.
    So you need to run enough laps for the grid to get spaced out a bit. otherwise they're being held up either by the player or other AI.
    4-5 laps is usually enough to get a decent lap-time for the AI.
    Mind you, the player has to run at race-pace during this as well, otherwise the player average will plummet and the whole thing will be for naught.
    And in the beginning it will take a few attempts before the AI starts getting up to speed. So do one track/car combo repeatedly until it's up to speed.
    Then switch to the next. Rinse and repeat until you have 4-5 tracks done with that class, and by then the law of averages should mean any new track will start in roughly the right place.

    Final note: When racing against the AAI, consistency is far more important than having one fast lap.
     
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  3. Hervé45

    Hervé45 Well-Known Member

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    make only 4 to 5 short races of 4 to 5 laps with the ia.
    Put yourself in pole position so as not to be embarrassed.
    over the races you will see that adaptive AI adapts to your pace
     
  4. Jetsun

    Jetsun Active Member

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    Experts might correct me but:
    1-have to be race (manual AI or Adaptative AI)
    2-have to be trained for each track, but the more track under your belt, the closer AAI will be on the next virgin track.
    3-like 5 laps race should be enough.

    Edit: Ninjaed by real expert!
     
  5. racinjoe013

    racinjoe013 New Member

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    Thank you all. I will get started on that now and see what happens.
     
  6. racinjoe013

    racinjoe013 New Member

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    Seems to be working. I ran two 8 lap races at Monza (my most consistent track) where I smoked the field. The third and fourth race was another story. The leader averaged 3-4 seconds faster than I was. Hope that adjusts eventually to more like 1 or 2. Don't want to win all the time, but would like to be able to keep up when i'm having a good day.

    Biggest problem I had was in the third and fourth race where the AI was faster, they kept punting me in the turns. The AI seems to lack some serious car avoidance skills. Hope that changes over time as well unless that problem is not part of the adaptive AI training. If not, then i'm in trouble in AI races.
     
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  7. Jiva

    Jiva Member

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    Apparently I’m the best teacher of AI out there LOL... after just a few races as described above, Unless I qualify 1 or 2 on the grid, I can expect to get my a$$ handed to me on a (carbon fiber) plate every single time. Once the boys are in front of me, they simply do NOT make any mistakes.

    A bit demoralizing at first perhaps but at least I know that if I do manage to overtake any, it’s most likely because I’m getting sharper on my line :D
     
  8. William Richardson

    William Richardson Active Member

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    I used the adaptive ai when I first got the game, but now days I know what percentage best suits me. Even when one picks a percentage the ai is not exact for every race, one race they may be really fast and another not so much. Just like real life some days your on and some days your not. I cant think of another game that has any better ai, in my opinion the ai in raceroom is pretty good.
     
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  9. Bull Shark

    Bull Shark Well-Known Member

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    Same here. I now use an AI strength of around the 100. I have to fight for a decent place. :D The AI of RaceRoom is very good.
     
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  10. nickh158

    nickh158 Active Member

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    The ai in Assetto Corsa Competzione is way better. This is understandable though, as there a far fewer cars and tracks.
     
  11. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    Is it?

    Its reliable, trustworthy, predictable.

    And very pacifistic, very sterile, very perfect, very inhumane, very clean, very concerned for not upsetting the player when player does something wrong and the AI inevitably makes contact with him. Its too perfect to be real.

    I have way more fun with the AI in RR. It puts up a show. It is in a grumpy mood. It is in rumble pit mode. It makes mistakes, at right the right frequency: not too often, not too rarely. It fights more angrily. I throw my glove at it, and I get back a fist. And I like all that.

    I admit though that currently there are issues with certain car classes and certain tracks, as a result of the news physics and FFB, most likely. I take these as not representing the intended status, and see them as temporary bugs.
     
  12. racinjoe013

    racinjoe013 New Member

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    I don't know about ACC, but your description of the ACC ai could describe the AC ai as well. It is very passive and once you get by them, they don't seem to want to fight back unless you make a mistake. I tend to finish more races in AC than any other sim, but I also find those races boring because I know exactly where I can pass and where they are slow or fast. It's too predictable. So far i like what I see from the RRE ai except for the punting part. I wish they had a little more car awareness. It reminds a bit of the ai in PC2 except without the inevitable first turn crash that PC2 has. Plus, the PC2 ai don't seem to follow the laws of physics, going full out into a turn that no human could do, then slamming the brakes mid turn.
     
  13. nickh158

    nickh158 Active Member

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    I suppose it`s a matter of personal preference. Given that I`m really slow and only race offline, I would rather have a race where I don`t get punted off the track whenever the I miss the ai`s braking point...
     
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  14. Jiva

    Jiva Member

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    This morning I had my first (almost) two consecutive clean laps on VLN Nordschleife in the Merc AMG GT3, had just managed to pass into 3rd (field of 8), and on the last S turn my right rear quarter was bumped and I spun out...

    This was the first time I was grinning from ear to ear for most of the ride since I was keeping up and in traffic most of the way but was holding it together. Plus, I didn’t go ballistic when AI “decided” to end it for me.

    Was I happy? Nope, but the AI keeps me honest and reminds me that s*** happens :p
     
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  15. racinjoe013

    racinjoe013 New Member

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    After about 15 races, i've come to the conclusion that adaptive ai is not for me. I will have to go back to picking percentages for each race. I'm not sure how it supposed to work, but if by adaptive, they mean it adapts to 5 to 6 seconds faster per lap than I run, then it is doing a heck of a job. And I have tried 5 different tracks that I know I can run consistent lap times on, at least within one second of each other and I don't see the ai doing anything other than going faster each race.

    So i'll go back to percentage racing and occasionally fire up a few adaptive ai races just to try and get more training into it. I figured after 15 races it should have some idea of how fast I can drive by now so that may just be a waste of time.
     
  16. MattStone

    MattStone Well-Known Member

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    AAI works great but you have to do 4-6 races on each track for it find your level
    If you’ve done 15 races over 5 tracks that means you’ve only done 3 races per track which is not enough

    I do 3 events of 2 x 5 lap races with 23 AI (less incidents and better consistency)
    I qualify for the first race and then for the second set it that i start from the position i finish in the first.
    If in the second race the ai behind me feel like the are a lot faster I let them by to avoid incidents

    For the first 3-4 races the ai strength can shift quite radically but by race 5 it’s feels very close.
    Some times after race 5 I restart the event so that I qualify for the 6th race and it’s almost always perfect

    it feels like a lot of racing to get to that point but I see this period of training the ai as an opportunity to learn the track and experiment with setups...I don’t worry about the strength of the ai or what place I’m finishing, just use these 30 laps to learn the track whilst training.

    quite often I find that even my strength can greatly improve. Over six races (3 events) my lap times may have improved by 1-2 seconds per lap which is why it sometimes takes the ai 6 races to match my improving level.

    Note that I am finding that on a few tracks the ai qualify too strongly compared to their ace pace. I think this is because on some tracks with more acute corners the ai slow each other down too much.
     
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    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
  17. racinjoe013

    racinjoe013 New Member

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    Ok. Then I will keep running mini races on these 5 tracks and see if it starts to get any better. Thanks for the extra knowledge.
     
  18. Bull Shark

    Bull Shark Well-Known Member

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  19. Wilko Jones

    Wilko Jones Member

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    I'm giving Adaptive AI a go, to help with a fear of running in packs. I attempted two 7 lap races at Laguna Seca in GTR3, I was running the newer Audi R8, but I didn't complete any of the races I began. If this affects the Adaptive AI, is there a way to reset it?
     
  20. Jiva

    Jiva Member

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    I too am uncomfortable driving in traffic and have started running races from last position, practicing standing start, and trying to get to the middle by the first turn. Surrounded by AI, one false move and it's pretty much over. I've already seen some improvement in my comfort level but I haven't found a reset for AI.

    @Wilko Jones: How many in your races? From what I gather, several "mini" races on the same track with just a handful of AI are all that is required to "train" them to your driving style and skill level. Even so, I still find it challenging to judge what they will do in front of me or behind me going into sharper turns and chicanes but that's what makes it so awesome, you can't just drive however you want, you really do have to adjust to that traffic, stay safe, and capitalize on the opportunities that present themselves.