AI Behavior

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Frost, Sep 16, 2019.

  1. Frost

    Frost Member

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    New to the forum, not really new to RaceRoom, took a hiatus for a while. Anyhow, the Ai are very aggressive in single player and championship. I've got it on Adaptive AI, but that doesn't do anything to temper the aggression. They race every corner and every lap, like it's the last lap of a race, including practice and qualifying. RaceRoom is a great Sim, the best in my opinion, just falling a little short with AI only because of the aggression. Any word if any updates to this are in the works. Seems like the ability to adjust AI Aggression would be a great update.
     
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  2. anno900

    anno900 Member

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    I'm playing only poffline and only championships. The AI is not aggressive. Of course you somehow have to adapt your driving style to them cause they have other braking points (mainly I can outbrake them with the cars I drive (TCR, GT4 and GT3), but at some fast corners (pouhon at SPA as an example) the AI can drive much much quciker and can even hit you from behind cause there speed is so much bigger through those fast corners 8there are some others). the "issue" is known and worked on. Many other RR gamers have "complaint" about the AI problems especially those two issues with bad braking and too fast in fast corners. But I assume that issue (especially the 2nd one) is hard to get fixed.
     
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  3. MattStone

    MattStone Well-Known Member

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    You will find that it does vary between classes of cars and some tracks are more problematic than others

    Best classes for racing against AI are
    • WTCR 2019 (the best close racing of any series imo)
    • WTCR 2018 (close racing)
    • Carrera Cup (close racing)
    • GT4 (close racing)
    • GT3 (intelligent AI but tend to space out too much after a few laps )
    • FR90
    • CR1
    • Cayman Trophy
    For me the worst are the DTM Series

    Note that there are a few series that I haven't played against AI enough to make an informed opinion
     
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  4. Nano 10

    Nano 10 Member

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    Let's cross our fingers for the new programmers to fix this nightmare called AI.

    We want a serious simulator, now it seems wreckfest.
     
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  5. Frost

    Frost Member

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    RaceRoom without question is the best race sim, I also own PC2 (Cars feel like they are riding on marbles or dirty track), Assetto Corsa and Assetto Corsa Competitzion and RaceRoom is head and shoulders better. The traction and tire modeling is amazing, I race Motorcycles and you can really feel the grip with RaceRoom. I like that the AI fight for positions, its just how they go about it that is irritating. Like I mentioned, no one in real world racing is going to fight for position in Practice or Qualifying.

    I've been racing GT3 in Championship, the AI fight at all times, stick their nose in and sweep across your bumper spinning you out. They do tend to brake a little early too and like you mentioned there are some fast corners where they are able to accelerate too quickly for the available grip. I did buy the F3 car (I have a lot of different cars and tracks) and was having a blast trading spots with the AI, but I could see where they are a lot better and avoid them.

    It's the resposibility of the car making the pass to do it cleanly, until they are in front, the other car has right's to the race line.
    In my opinion, the AI really isn't that far away, they just need to temper their aggression on corner entry mainly, bump the braking a very little bit and adjust their acceleration into high speed corners. RaceRoom is a really good race sim, just needs some more tweaking. I hope they get that part adjusted.

    I know it would be hard to implement, but it would be cool to have each AI race you depending on how you've raced them (AI).
     
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  6. Frost

    Frost Member

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    It's still better than anything else that I've played, just needs to be tweaked.
     
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  7. Nano 10

    Nano 10 Member

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    Games based on ISI Motor can be set very easily with AI aggression slider or, better yet, by editing the "Talents" folders, which works excellently in games such as Automobilista or Stock Car Extreme.

    Incomprehensibly these options were removed in this game.

    "It's still better than anything else that I've played, just needs to be tweaked"

    Yeah, a BIG tweaked.
     
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  8. Frost

    Frost Member

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    Here is what I've seen so far.
    1. AI brake markers are not bad, it's their rate of braking, they have more traction and can slow at a greater rate. If I brake where they do I cannot brake at that rate, I rear end them. So it's an issue with their tire modeling and the amount of grip they have.
    2. AI on Corner Exit, the AI have tremendous grip and are able to accelerate out of the turn, when they are still actually turning. Again, this is down to the tire modeling for the AI.
    3.Fast Corner, AI have tremendous front end grip and the car tracks perfectly under heavy acceleration. Tire Modeling.
    4. Aggression throughout a race weekend is bit too much especially in Practice and Qualifying, . But I think the tire modeling plays a big part in the AI's ability to race aggressively.
    5.The AI don't seem to have tire degradation throughout the race, I have the tire wear set at 2x. My tires fall off pretty good towards the end of a race, where the AI don't seem to suffer at the same rate. They also have more grip on corner exit throughout the race and don't suffer any tire degradation when working the tires that hard.
     
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  9. HoiHman

    HoiHman Well-Known Member

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    @Frost, you are spot on.

    Still the raceroom AI is one of best i have raced so far.
     
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  10. Frost

    Frost Member

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    Has it been different in the past? Is this just a tweak too far for the AI? The physics of the game and how I can feel grip is just amazing. I use an Oculus, race rig with Sim commander, so I have really excellent awareness around me. Just sometimes their actions are not consistent with real world racing. I race Motorcycles which is different, but there is a certain amount of mutual respect, certainly if I am on the race line. Then it's the person making the pass that's responsible for doing it cleanly, the AI need that.
     
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  11. Andi Goodwin

    Andi Goodwin Moderator Beta tester

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    its like this yes there are issues in some ways with the ai ,
    they brake hard in the first phase , they get better runs in medium to fast corners (these issues are being worked on )
    but ask really why are you racing ?
    Ask yourself one question , does a race driver adapt and learn from its competition , if your answer is no , then go play tiddly winks

    learn the ai , set the % so you are challenged and raced , dont make moves that you know will end in misery

    and from this you will get a good racing experience , if your unwilling to adapt then ask why you are racing

    Andi
     
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  12. Frost

    Frost Member

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    I see your a beta tester and a moderator, so if you say it's all known and being worked on, then you've answered my original question. So I appreciate you answering that.

    So, should I adapt to unrealistic racing? Or ask the game developer to adapt the game so it is realistic? I've not said that RaceRoom is trash, or said it's unplayable. I've been very complimentary of RaceRoom, the only reason I signed on here was hoping to see a few things were being looked at so the game is even better.

    It's not that far off, maybe -10% Aggression and -10% Grip into and out of corners, maybe a little more than that. But I think it's small tweaks, which I am sure means a lot of coding and testing. I am after clean, realistic racing, back and forth battles for position. I race motorcycles in real life, I don't have to win to have fun racing, If I can have back and forth battles for position along the way and finish near the top 10, then I am perfectly happy.
     
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  13. Rmbonk86

    Rmbonk86 Member

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    I use adaptive setting. I've been in many situations where it seems the AI will not move off their line for any reason, even if to avoid an accident. But have seen where they have adjusted slightly.
     
  14. anno900

    anno900 Member

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    I won't call RR unrealistic racing with AI. I think it is very hard (or even impossible) to get a good AI which acts like "humans".
    So Andi is fully right in what he wrote and Frost is right with his last section, but devs are working on that.
    What I like about racing the AI: All oponents run on about the same level, so I get close racing if I set % to a correct value. I also tried adaptive AI a lot, but there is too much black magic, that makes no sense to me. So currently I run with fix AI. Of course at some tracks they are better (or I am worse). But across a chamionship that levels out quite good. but IRL it would be same. You need to score good points on tracks that fits you and your car and on the others you shiuld try to finish and get at least few points. Of course I would prefer racing humans, but since racing sim are a niche you will never get a field of drivers, where, let's say, 10-15 drivers are on nearly equal level and you would get close racing. I tried iracing, where that works quite good, but I do not have the time, even if ircaing offers a lot race but only to full and hal hours. I only have about 30-40 minutes time, when I play on my PC and then I do not want to wait till a race starts and just doing hotlaps... not what I enjoy. So in the end I need to race against AI and RR is the best I found so far. Stock car extreme and AMS were fine too but the racing series they simulate are not in my focus. And using mods does not really work, cause some mods are good with good talent files but then some tracks have bad waypoints for AI etc.. I do not have the time to trail and error. RR offers for any combination of cars and tracks propper racing with AI. You need to adapt to that, but the good thing. AI is somehow predicable, so you have a chance to adapt. You onlyy need to be willing to do that.
     
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  15. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    You can be assured that AI is one of the things that is constantly worked on behind the scenes. Unfortunately it is also a very complicated beast, a minor change to one parameter can have huge consequences elsewhere. Add that to the fact that physics overall have been developed extensively over the last couple of years and you will appreciate the task at hand. As Andi says though, true human like AI is practically impossible without massive computing power, so the player does have to learn the traits of the AI and drive accordingly.
     
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  16. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    @Nano 10 what are you even disagreeing with you absolute clown.
     
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  17. SpeedRacerX

    SpeedRacerX New Member

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    You have to be aggrrssive, that is my style anyways. It helps. Btw can you get the track rules such as slow down, stop and go, and drive through rules to work in single or championchip mode to work? Because I can’t.
     
  18. Andi Goodwin

    Andi Goodwin Moderator Beta tester

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    i dont see a reason to run the slow down and cut rules in sp , as the ai dont serve them , and if you cut and cheat your only cheating yourself

    Andi
     
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  19. MattStone

    MattStone Well-Known Member

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    Yup; that's my theory so I turn it off
     
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  20. Nano 10

    Nano 10 Member

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    ravey

    I find your comment quite rude, unfit for a beta tester who should listen to those who bought the game and learn to improve the game.

    If you put into practice all the advice we are giving to improve the game, especially AI, you would become someone more productive.

    And there wouldn't be as many complaints as there are now.

    In addition, the latest news is that AI is improving, which indicates that we were always right who objectively observed the problems.
     
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