Hello drivers! To begin: I know. There were already enough complaints about AI's crashing into players vehicle. Usually it came down to bad players behaviour or bad racing line. But believe me, I'm not here for ranting. I recorded some of the most annoying and rough crashes which happened to me due to AI driving and I'd like you to objectively judge: is it really my fault there? I'm leaving a lot of space, I'm holding my racing line and I just can't keep myself out of crashing with AI (especially in DTM). To me it seems like there is a blind spot for AI on the front sides of a bonnet, where it doesnt notice players presence at all @Edit - the last one is from AI perspective
Being a fan of the AI actually with the last updates something has gone terribly wrong (maybe TCR adjustments, don't know). AI is ruthless, seeks gaps that are not there, performs unrealistic apex speeds at high diff. levels (noone can tell me that with AI standard setup and 16 Wing -DTM16- you can perform such moves - there is something totally messed up.)
No easy calls here. 1 and 2 I see as "stuff that happens in racing". Like in the other incidents, it is about the AI and you disagreeing on how tight to take a turn. Both of you made the decisons for yourself, and you found they conflicted, with the car behind not havign enough time to react. These incidents could have happened to me as well, or to you if I would have been the AI. Its racing. Such things happen. In MP you can see worse things happening. 3 - the green car on the right acts as if it had not seen you and tried to close the door while you already were beside him by half a car length. If that would be a human driver, I would be almost sure he did not see you. Again, happens in MP on free servers all the time. 4 - AI on the inside wanted to take the turn wider than you did on the outside. AI car's fault. 5 - Your fault. You were behind, and reversed the situation from video 4: you wanted to go wide while being on the inside, while the AI was outside and was slightly ahead and was close to the track's outer white line - he could only avoid you by risking to go off track. You were too aggressive there, should have either stayed behind, or got tighter in the turn. You had no claim for the ideal (wider) line.
Just to straighten things up - the last video was recorded from the AI perspective of view. I'm driving a yellow BMW there. I should have mentioned it before. I'm sorry for a little confusion and thank you for your replies
Videos 1 to 5 AI blame I've seen worse things look at youtube "Race Room aggressive AI" For those who like simulation this Ai is frustrating
Especially as it was so frickin good (once upon a time ) Clearly remember that racing them (mostly DTM) was almost the same as driving against my collegues at VRTM league !
The most annoying about crashes with the AI is that no matter who chrashes into whom the player always spins or something similiar and the AI drives away like nothing happend at all.
I certainly have not found that to be the case! There are many times when I've turned the AI around..happened multiple times playing last night at Silverstone in the DTM 2016 races I was having. Many times I was door rubbing. Remember that physics are physics..I've found looking at my replays that the outcome of these spins all depends on who tapped who where and where the weight distribution and grip level of each vehicle was at the point of contact...etc...etc. I feel Skybirds analysis is pretty much correct. But Vid 3 is the only one that I feel was an unavoidable glitch. Video 4 could be a case that with the speed the AI entered the corner and the fact that his right wheel hit the curb he may have not been able to take a tighter line..physics! BUT knowing he was there I would have gone much wider to give him room anyway and that may have avoided the collision. Remember that just because they are AI doesn't mean they are super smart and can pull off physics miracles. Treat them just like a RL player and... Expect to be shunted if a car is coming up fast behind you and you are braking early or changing lanes (ask Ricardo and Verstappen who was in the wrong!) Expect having the door closed on you (ask Ricardo and Verstappen who was in the wrong!) Expect the inside lunge (ask Ricardo and Verstappen who was in the wrong!) Expect they will stick to their racing line Allow for them not seeing you SITUATIONAL AWARENESS IS CRITICAL (for AI and RL players) Give them plenty of room or else weigh up the risk of loosing out if you don't Expect a risky late braking passing manoeuvre could end in disaster and weigh up the risk before making it Learn where they are particularly dumb and allow for their misgivings (eg the lap1 first corner pile ups) Remember you have 25 AI cars trying to occupy a couple of pre programmed racing lanes; they aint all gonna fit so there is bound to be chaos....add your car into the mix....well there really is only so much a programmer can do! Follow the above 9 rules to enjoy racing against the AI (and RL players) Adaptive AI trained or not; setting the AI way above your driving skill level or below your skill level...it doesn't matter. If you adopt the above 10 points you will have the best white knuckle racing experience. No other game has better AI and I've tried pretty much all of them. 95% of my AI incidents can be blamed on me not following the above; the other 5%....well that number of dumb AI mistakes is a lot less than what you encounter online against RL players so I'll forgive them! Honestly; the first step to really enjoying racing against the AI is to stop blaming them and start looking at your own driving, your lack of situational awareness and the risks you take; and accept that occasionally that just like in real life racing; drivers sometimes get it wrong. I'm glad the AI is not perfect because I want to feel like I'm racing against RL players!
I would say that part of the problem is that players tend to drive far more aggressive and risk-ebracing, than real world drivers do in real races. Jan Seyffarth also said in one if his videos something similar: that players should be a bit more on the brakes, should stay away from the kerbs, sjould go a bit slower into the turn, but accelerate earlier. Slow in, fast out - but most players act by the rule of fast in - wanting to be fast out, even if that means to go over kerbs and partly the green where it is not wanted, needed, recommendable. Players are more aggressive than reality drivers. Because they have nothing real at risk. My own driving in the sim probably is this more defensive indeed. And that may be the reason why I see these things that people complain about, far less often than these people. Granted, that way you will not make it to the top of the world leaderboards. But after all, these leaderboard times are just game times, not reality times.
Let me refer to these points. I'm always expecting them to follow their racing line. I imagine as if we were slot cars - side by side, but holding our lines. But far too many times I find them just ignoring mine and crossing it. Just look at Crash4 and Crash5. There is plenty of room left for AI. I'd say it's a clean situation. I know where the AI is so I take a wide turn not to crash, but it seems AI doesn't know my position at all and just rams me over. If you look carefully at Crash2 - the AI roughly cuts a corner and hits my side trying to find a gap which even isn't there. I seriously have no any other idea of taking this corner "more safely" in this particular case. Where's the AI situational awareness then? I'm usually running my races at fixed AI level of 103 +-1 (depends on my knowing the car and track combo). And I never reach for finishing 1st. I find it most enjoyable when I'm in the middle, fighting for any higher position than the actual one, always keeping the room for an improvement To be honest... racing in SRS I found players to drive way more careful and respectful than AI at the moment. I totally got your point, because I'm the same type of a driver. I rarely follow the car ahead with a little gap being afraid of hitting it in the back while braking too late. But hey, you are RACING. There is always the moment when you have to overtake. Therefore - to take the risk. And then situations from my videos take place just too often Anyway it's worth admitting, the AI behaviour varies much between series. Today I was racing in WTCC in Zolder. Totally clean. Not a single touch even though the fights were furious
Just to make clear: I think the Ai is very good, but in my opinion it's to obvious that the AI is using very different physics than the player does. Not just in the way they drive throu a corner. Just compare crash 2 and 3. They are quit identical just with the "roles" switched. In both cases the Ai goes away easily while the player spins. And these to videos also show that the player is the less aggressive in both videos. In video 2 the Ai more or less divebombs the player and crashes throu him by taking way to much curb on the inside. In the 3rd video the player is on the inside line and also a bit ahead of the AI-driver but the Ai doesn't care, crashes into the player and goes away like nothing happend.
The physics involved re Arcons car in Crash 2 and 3 that caused him to spin are exactly the same in both In both cases the weight is on his front right tire, this means the rear of his car was very light and the momentum of the rear of the car was wanting to skid right. All it took was a tap from the Ai to make his rear break loose causing the spin. BUT if you look closely at the weight distribution of the ai car, in both cases the wieght is much more evenly distributed across all four wheels so the AI naturally had better traction @Arcson I’m happy to give you a critical analysis on the other vids if you like but vid 3 is the only unavoidable ai glitch one that I could see there
It varies indeed, that is my observation, too. I currently just love the rumblepit GT1 and GT2 has turned into, all that yelling, kicking and beating everywhere. If I'm in a mood for a brawl, I chose GT1 or GT2. Brings out something archaic in me.
Whenever a thread like this pops up, I stop and wonder how many "user aggression" complaint videos the AI would post if it ever got the ability to do that. This is (trying to imitate) racing, or in Hannibal Lecter terms: quid pro quo. Is the AI agressive? Well yeah, we want it to race, not be a victim. Is the AI stupid at times? Yes it is, but so are real life drivers. Even the most highly trained professionals, doing nothing but racing for decades, do stupid things and make errors from time to time. Making the AI perfect would be easy, but that wouldn't be realistic at all. Trying to make them just as imperfect as humans are is the real challenge. @Arcson I will put in a report about the behaviour at the first chicane on Zolder tho as the DTM AI seems to take a bit too much liberty there. It shouldn't have tried to attack when there's literally nothing but kerb for its move. Thanks for posting this.
Ablaze said "In my opinion, the AI had brain farts in all 5 vids, especially at the chicane in Zolder". also in the Indianapolis straight, curve 6 Slovakia, curve 3 Paul Ricard, Aqua Minerale in Imola, curve 10 Race Room circuit, curve 4 Nurbur, curve 1 Portimao ... To see a car in the mirror is like seeing an alien chasing you ... and we know how it ends. This Ai needs a lot of work and to lower the aggressiveness.
In the good old rFactor 1 times it wouldn't take too long to solve that simply be lowering the values for AITorqueStab in the car's .hdv file: e.g. AITorqueStab=(1.2,1.2,1.2) to AITorqueStab=(1.0,1.0,1.0). I've modded games with ISI engine for years and that always did the trick.
There’s not much I can say here that hasn’t been said already. A lot of good advice for those who want to race the ai. A couple of years ago, the devs toned the ai “aggression“ down. And quite honestly it was rather boring at times. They didn’t really fight or defend for position. If I was to make a suggestion, it would be to learn better handling of the car when in the midst of battling for position. Most of what I saw. I would class as battling for position. You need to learn how to counter steer to keep the car on the track when it’s fender to fender. Pay attention to your car. If you feel it moving sideways, turn into it and drift it a bit to get it back under control. Also, try playing with some slower easier to handle cars. Too many people jump right into the fastest cars when they don’t have the skills to handle them. Maybe you should try the Audi tt’s for a bit. Drive the adac for a while. The DTM is Hard aggressive racing. And not necessarily for beginners. Finally, if this sim was easy you would get bored pretty quickly.
I would add to the above ^ advise: learn to pick your fights wisely. Learn to differ correctly between chances that indeed are chances with good probability for success, and chances that are just imagined claims - your claims. You can run the AI into the ground like a daredevil, and leave it no chance - if you do not make it over the finishing line in one piece, you nevertheless loose. Sometimes its better to not test your luck and simply wait for a better opportunity coming. Thats especially true with the many lap-one-dive-bomber type of players who think they must leave the whole competition in the dust by the beginning of lap two already - while the race lasts 20 laps or so.