Dirty tyres too punishing?

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by PanVlk, Sep 7, 2020.

?

Do you think current implementation of dirty tyres is too punishing?

  1. Yes - should be toned down

    33 vote(s)
    70.2%
  2. No - it's perfect

    14 vote(s)
    29.8%
  3. No - the effect should be even stronger

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. PanVlk

    PanVlk Member

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    Hi everyone,
    I haven't seen this discussed around here, even though I feel like it's currently one of the biggest factors deciding the races. I am talking about the mechanic of dirty tyres, meaning after even a small offtrack excursion you have almost no grip for next few corners, meaning you either have to drive super slowly for a while, or you end up spinning/crashing.

    Does anyone else think it's way too exagerated? I feel like currently the effect is too strong and makes even small mistakes disproportionately punishing.

    Any thoughs?
     
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    Last edited: Sep 7, 2020
  2. Vale

    Vale Active Member

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    I agree that it´s too much, although a lot depends on the car class and the track. Nordschleife seems more indulgent in all aspects such as track limits not having times cancelled or more grip when you do go off.

    The idea is good but the execution needs more polish, as in real racing it is possible to go off track and not have 0 grip during x amount of seconds only for it to suddenly come back to normal.
     
  3. Christian G

    Christian G Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    Just to put some info here, for perspective:

    Dirt build-up and wear-off are class dependent, so it takes different amounts of time for different classes to gather a full load of dirt and to get rid of it again. This is supposed to reflect the different characteristics of the different compounds used in different series.

    And there's different dirty areas around each track that also vary in how much they impact the tyre's grip. I'm unsure whether I'd be allowed to quote actual numbers here (so I'll leave that to @Alex Hodgkinson in case he thinks these figures are ok to be public), but it should come as no surprise that grass and drains (yes, water drains are dirt areas) put less dirt on the tyre than f.e. gravel does.
    And yes, you can pick up different types of dirt at the same time. :eek:

    We've actually been discussing this internally not too long ago, so it is still a work in progress and will most likely be fine-tuned in the future. So we're definitely interested in what you guys think and your feelings about the way dirt build-up and wear-off work right now.
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2020
  4. Vale

    Vale Active Member

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    I´d say in GT3, DTM92 and Group 5 it´s still too much. TCR, Silhouettes seem better. Trackwise the area after the hairpin at Norisring and Laguna Seca in general but especially around the corkscrew could be taken down a notch or two, especially when these are low speed parts of the tracks so the cars should be more controlable.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. wesker6664

    wesker6664 Member

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    For me it's too much, look at F1 for example, they go off track sometimes but can attack almost immediately after rejoining the asphalt. Given the rotation speed of the tires at racing pace, dirt or sand can't remain stuck on the tire for so long IMO
     
  6. GooseCreature

    GooseCreature Well-Known Member

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    Don't get how, when crossing dry grass I lose 50-60% of my traction, I fancy someone has the Maths wrong in their spreadsheet. :rolleyes:
    The initial couple of spins of the wheels maybe but 10 seconds of uncontrollable, sphincter clenching, hell ride, is just not what you expect irl, wet grass maybe but that's not happening is it, it's bonio dry grass & dust on slick or semi slick tyres, couple spins and clean. Jeez the MotoGP guys drive through the gravel then throw it on its side at the very next turn!
    I've not trawled through the thread as I'm here in anger as I've just cocked up a 0.5 under lap in LeSport competition (sorry, just looks too much like it) :D Don't get me started on the 2020 DTM's, twitchy mofu's that wind me the hell up with their sodding swivel hips, have never known a RR car to throw me so far off the track, I swear I'm high-siding in most turns, Aagghhh, I didn't even know you could high-side a car, well not to such devastating effect. It is the most Yin/Yang competition I think I've ever tried. The idea is, as quickly, noisily & aggressively as possible, get this car around this track, yet maintain a full Zen state between eye and right foot, one twitch and it will punch your face in. Is this not supposed to be fun, if I ever see one of these cars in real life, I will kick it, kick it hard where it hurts, sodding things!
    Bloody addictive though and if they stay in the same Nos induced state when released, I don't see a race finishing with any more than 25% of the field, trying to be consistent with a bucking bronco is near impossible, throw a glitchy Thrustmaster wheel into the mix and I swear I'll just punch myself in the face and cut out the middle man, anyway, as I first said, dirty tyres not realistic imho. :rolleyes:
     
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  7. FormelLMS

    FormelLMS Well-Known Member

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    I don't get why right tyres lost the grip, when you are with the lefts in the gravel.... In fact one tyre in the gravel and it drives like there is ice on every tire. This isn't how it behave in the reality :)
     
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  8. David Walters [8]

    David Walters [8] New Member

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    Totally agree. The P2 class I have been driving recently, feels like tyres have been coated in oil after touching gravel. I’ve never driven these irl of course, but the effect is so extreme, it can’t be realistic.
    I’d advise anyone to try these before voting.
     
    • Agree Agree x 3
  9. Christian G

    Christian G Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    You don't.

    Like I said, I'm not going to put out numbers without Alex' approval, but the grip loss is lower than that on grass surfaces, considerably.
     
  10. PanVlk

    PanVlk Member

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    I can definitely see the grass being less of a problem, but the gravel is a killer. As David mentioned above, P2 specifically is just ice skating for several corners even after short offtracks, which doesn't seem realistic at all.

    This makes it very hard to recover from mistakes, and often results in chain reaction of spins, which is really quite annoying.
     
  11. Aurigarius

    Aurigarius Member

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    I think the effect of the gravel is quite good actually. There is the obvious solution not to have this effect... :grinning:
    It should slow you down if you were off-track. I don't like those huge asphalt runoff sections modern tracks have these days. With gravel and dirt besides the track, track limits have to be respected more, which is not a bad thing.
     
  12. Aspius

    Aspius Active Member

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    Not having it at all would be worse. When i do go off track i expect to have less grip when i get back on. What happens when you have a big off and have to drive some bit through the gravel is fine. The loss of grip feels appropriate. However if you just run a little bit wide and put only 2 tires in the gravel. It feels like you lose a little bit to much grip.
     
  13. majuh

    majuh Well-Known Member

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    The effect of gravel is too strong. Just touching the gravel for a split second at the exit of the second chicane in Monza makes you lose at least 1 second in the Lesmos.

    Grass on the other hand feels like it provides too much grip in general (not talking about dirty tires here).
     
  14. Turtle Power

    Turtle Power Well-Known Member

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    I think its realistic
     
  15. GooseCreature

    GooseCreature Well-Known Member

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    Have you never heard of exaggeration old bean? I'd be guessing it's less than 10% irl but that just sounds shit, :D we're in a click bait society now. ;)
     
  16. GooseCreature

    GooseCreature Well-Known Member

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    Forgot to add the whisper emoji! :D
    I think youm wrong by the way, it's almost impossible, to not spin after leaving the track, yet when I watch the real thing, unless damaged, you just don't see this happening. It's not by a lot but most drivers would drop the clutch and spin the rears to clean them before getting on with it, try this in RR and you will instantly die!
     
  17. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    I don't know but my gut feeling is that the grip loss is a little too much. I run second monitor which gives you a readout of how dirty the tyres are as a percentage, so at least I can anticipate the lack of grip.
     
  18. Turtle Power

    Turtle Power Well-Known Member

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    OK,
    I've spent a couple of hours testing it thoroughly and it has been brought to may attention that dirty tyres in RR are actually insanely punishing. You and others are spot on. Disregard my previous comment. Maybe I didn't pay much attention as I should. It felt OK probably because I did not encounter too many off track incidents.

    To other note, I compared this to iRacing and found that being off track is the same as driving on ice. Way too much but soon as you get back on track (if you do) the grip comes back soon after which is believable and it feels right I think.
     
  19. CrimsonEminence

    CrimsonEminence Well-Known Member

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    It should be toned down at least in terms of time, affecting your handling at such a severe amount. Gravel trap handling itself and a short(er!!) period of time after rejoining is slippery and should ruin your run definetly and is definetly realistic, but you drive on ice for basically a whole sector, which i've never seen at this magnitude, especially when just kissing the outside of the track for a very short amount of time.^^
     
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  20. Christian G

    Christian G Topological Agitator Beta tester

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    Err, I mean, of course I've heard of that, just like any other normal human being, which I totally am and there's no way for you to prove that I'm not. :grimacing:

    Really just wanted to make sure nobody took it for a fact, placebo is a strong effect.