Any thoughts on including the Mercedes 190E as well? Since it's not exactly a spec series - Touring E30 vs. DTM '92 E30 have similar differences to the 190e. Don't it would hurt to have some variety and it would help when to distinguish team mates and certain drivers.
the point of this gp was to take a break from mixed field and just focus on a spec series. There are quite a few people who found problems in the gtr3 group mostly do to feeling that the ford was "OP' for the field. By keeping it basicly a near spec series, I think most of these problems are resolved and overall, I don't see the merc being as needed for this series ether. however, I will leave it up to the others. It really won't damage the series.
We would probably have to do some testing. Get delta times between the cars from the same drivers on a variety of tracks. I definitely agree that the BoP in GT3 was a huge turn-off.
Absolutely - which would certainly be a reason not to include the baby GT - aka the Ford "Freight Train" Foxbody Mustang. But the 190e seems fairly balanced to the E30. My main concern was differentiating different racers if everyone is in the E30. I know I certainly race team mates differently or people I know who are likely to run a "wider" line on corner exit. I absolutely think testing on several different types of circuits aka high speed, cornering/df based, short/slow, etc. would be the best decision. If the 190e is even - that's great. If not, absolutely do not include it.
Sorry to be negative, but adding the 190E kinda defeats the point of a one make series IMO, I was under the impression this next series was all about the drivers, using the single make just put everyone on the same page horsepower wise. TBH I'm a little iffy about running the DTM & Tourers together, although there the same brand their still different class cars, with differing torque curves. But I guess there as close as one can get to being evenly matched overall, just hope track selection suits both cars, no doubt much testing will be done over coming weeks. Hopefully I'll get my rig back together this weekend, so I can join the test fest Cheers
Single make/single model is the only way for it to be just driver based. Start adding other cars or even same cars different series then there will always be questions about the car or driver
we have tested racing the two version, and as I have said before, the cars are so close in performance that it wont really matter whatsoever. while there is a difference, it really wont matter at all. (less than a thousands of a second)
I did some short testing on Zandvoort with all cars reset to default setup. Going to do more on other tracks as this wasnt the best sample (for many reasons) but here are the results: (Absolute lap, best sectors combined) BMW e30 (92): 1.42.676 (8 laps) Mercedes 190e: 1.42.594 (6 laps) BMW e30 (TC): 1.42.159 (6 laps) I know I shouldve ran them the same ammount of laps, but time ran out ^^
as these are older cars, they are meant to run softer setups, so try the test again if you have the time, but run them with soft suspension and stiff roll bars. it should bring the lap times closer.
I can honestly tell you peeps I have no idea how to set up a car. I will be asking a lot of questions
I'd be interested to see further testing. It doesn't seem my opinion on the 190e is the most popular, but as suspected the 190e vs. DTM '92 is more closely matched than the E30 TC vs. DTM. Which is the goal when trying to do a spec series league.
I posted a setup guide in response to Sean on the previous page. Here it is again: http://temp.buchtic.net/RD-Setup-Guide-1.0.pdf It's pretty well written, but in order to use the guide properly you have to understand what the car is doing when you drive it (over or understeer at different points in the corner and at different speeds, input responsiveness, etc...) that part takes time to learn. I sent you a friend request on raceroom so if we're ever on at the same time, I'm down to give you whatever advice I can.
Hey Thomas, i'm doing some tests right now at mid ohio chicane, what do you think about testing there and also at spielberg? i'm guessing those 2 plus zandvoort should give us a good idea on the performance of the cars.
I love to read this kind of involvement! Gj guys! Among the others do also a Norisring test if you like. I'm curious to see how the cars handle that track Regarding the series, I hope those who were asking about adding the 190 won't get (too much) disappointed, but yeah my idea was to run just a single make league this time, hence we'll be running the bimmies. *Spoilers!* We picked the BMW from two series cause we wanted to assign the slower BMW to the fast chaps (prepare to be ballasted you Aliens!!) and the fast one to the other chaps. This should provide more action and it'd be fun to see how the pro handles this situation (even if the cars are not that apart from each other). We have also decided not to run divisions but we have adopted another method suggested by you guys which is quite interesting and will add its weight to the final leaderboard score. We have also slightly changed the rules and race format and we also have some very cool news but we'll talk about them all once the poll is over (Sunday). Thanks again for participating to ESR and I hope you guys are enjoying what you're experiencing here! Cheers!
Im happy with whatever car I end up in, they are all lovely to drive! My impression was that with default setup, the TC BMW was easier to drive but the times show they were almost exactly equal. Some laps on Bathurst with default setup on all cars. 6 laps with the 190e, 6 laps with the e30 (92) and 8 laps with the e30 (TC) Absolute laps: Mercedes 190e: 02:10:234 BMW e30 (92): 02:09:705 BMW e30 (TC): 02:09:666 Max speed at end of Conrod Straight: Mercedes 190e: 252kmh BMW e30 (92): 253kmh BMW e30 (TC): 254kmh The two BMW's seem to be very closely matched, heres best sector times: Sector 1: e30 (92): 00.35.329 | e30 (TC): 00.35.147 Sector 2: e30 (92): 00:40:032 | e30 (TC): 00:40:139 Sector 3: e30 (92): 00:54:344 | e30 (TC): 00:54:380
I just did some testing at Norisring between the '92 E30 and 190E (ran 30 laps each, alternating cars every 15 laps) and I have to say that with default setups, the E30 had more pace by about 3 tenths (54.872 vs. 55.153). 190E was less slippery but the E30 was easier to throw around the tight corners for me. I was really pushing both cars and just couldn't squeeze that extra time out of the 190E. Maybe we give those cars to the aliens instead