I doubt we'd lose R3E, but unless the patch delivers something rather impressive it's going to keep on loosing ground to other sims with clear development road maps and steady improvements known to it's customers. It's doable, S3 has shown great momentum up to about summer where from a customer standpoint they seemingly dropped the ball and went home. We've heard about flags and a restoration of the AI but neither are said to make it into this patch, Georg posted a pic of the new displays being worked on and that's great news but we still have no idea if they will go back and "fix" cars like the McLaren or if it'll only be in new content, nor have we been told if it's in this great patch. What we saw on the Facebook stream wasn't very exciting, server issues and a new and tweaked DTM. VR support being worked on is great and all, kudos for stepping up to the plate on that one, hopefully it'll be released faster then some of those announced cars. Oh and ISRTV mentioned accuforce support comming as well, that's pretty good I guess. I really hope S3 can find their momentum again, and that official channels/devs start communicating better because the current line of information from Beta testers is feeling more and more like the the days of WMD/Project CARS. Fire up that dev stream please. Rant over.
Why so much debate ??? Raceroom has ask for some modifications of last minutes , that's why the patch was to grow back , I see nothing dramatic inside ..... When they support anybody it is also in instants more to complicate not ??? sorry for my English
When you wait forever for your raceroom patch, you get .. I don't want to imagine... Just to shorten the time!
I think some of the "un-rest" is based on the fact that there's no "off-line" mode and lack of progress (seen by the community). There has been very little communication/activity which makes me feel that the developer's focus is turning away for R3E. I realize I could be way off base but lack of movement forward has been seen many times as a software title reaches end of life. Again, not saying this is the case with R3E. I would love to see new features that would bring in more buyers/racers, but until it actually happens (new features!) my focus is elsewhere (there's a lot to choose from, which is a good thing). I've supported this title by purchasing a lot of content, I hope it stays relevant in the sim racing community. Us virtual races are so fickle (Ok, speaking for myself )
Yeah it has been very quiet since about half a year now with regards to R3E. The naive optimist in me is thinking they might have started work on a successor which will be revealed soon? (remember the night shot at eau rouge)
I hear ya, and I too would like some word on what is coming, or at least in the near pipeline, but still, there is another way to look at this... And I think that is best viewed on some past 'announcements' or teases. Does anyone remember there being some word of V8 supercars? And how J-F said somewhat recently that perhaps it wasnt the best thing to tease V8SC years ago because it likely wont come to fruition? Well, take this patch now for instance. The devs are always working on a ton of different things. Like, truly a ton. I know, because I help with finding the bugs for a whole plethora of issues. Now, sometimes what the devs end up working on, just might not always make it to the final game. And of course, all the time spent on changes they originally were planning to include may not end up in the final released copy. This isnt to say that entire features were worked on for months and scrapped, as I have no knowledge of that, but sometimes the things being worked on for a while, end up in a much different finished state than originally intended. Now picture the devs months ago sayind that "X" feature was for sure going to be included and they were working on it. What happens when that feature (or whatever else it may be for this example) released in an entirely different finished state than originally teased/announced? There would be mass outrage! "Sector3, why dont you listen to the community!? THIS isnt what we wanted, we wanted "X" instead!" Sometimes it is simply too early to announce and be held completely firm to an idea. Because we all know how vitriolic the sim racing community can be if things dont go exactly to plan. Im not talking specifically about the community here, but the larger community as a whole. Too many nice chaps here to make a blanket statement like that Well, I cant deny that I too would like to see something soon (aka a few months ago ), but what if the bulk of the 'big' things they have been working on for months simply isnt finished or at an acceptable enough state to release? Would everyone be happy with something that would be called a hotfix patch in other games? Something where there is only a handful of fixes in the update, and nothing else? Makes more sense to just roll it all into one big patch, and therefore minimize the support time if something in that smaller patch ends up affecting the game negatively. Im not entirely seeing the correlation here between price of content, and people being upset that a patch is delayed. With any product, you are paying for the content that is on offer at the time of your purchase. Not future content or future updates. J-F has already said, on the first day of that SimBin rebirth announcement that it means little for Sector3 and that R3E is full steam ahead. This delay has nothing to do with SimBin or whatever may come from them in the future. On AI... reworking every single class of AI, testing them, having the beta testers test them, report bugs, fix those bugs, retest everything... in numerous iterations of AI code improvement is massively time consuming. Not every bug or issue will be quashed, but it will be at a better state than it was before. If it doesnt make it in this next patch (which is unlikely imo), hopefully before the end of the year. If you 'just bought' AMS and already have as many hrs with that as R3E, you surely musn't have played R3E enough in all the time before you got AMS. Long post is long. Sorry about that. Figured it best to roll it all into one comment... (pun intended). Cheers
Well, let's get one thing straight first. I'm not talking about the patch only, but the general state of things. Had my concerns been only that the patch was delayed, hopefully someone would've tranquillized me by now. So with that in mind and in no particular order....... You're right, the pricing has very little to do with the patch. But it is expensive, AND it's online only. Which means that if S3 (or KW or RaceRoom) decides to pull the plug on the validation-servers, we're screwed. Now, couple that with the fact that we've heard talk of a move to another GFX engine, and the sudden re-appearance of SimBin, and it's not that far a stretch to imagine a second IP featuring cross-platform software. And if that happens, what happens to R3E and the investment people have put into it? If R3E had an off-line SP option, it would've been a completely different story, but it doesn't. Yes, I know that J-F said there'd be no change. And with no offense intended, I've also been told that the patch would be in August. Not to mention that on more than one occasion I've been told that S3 doesn't call the shots. People can disagree with me all they want, but unless and until there's some sort of clarification as to the future of R3E/SimBin/S3 I'm going to stay worried. Then there's the constant teasing of both patches and content. Again, I agree that it's a bad idea to talk about the contents of a patch, just in case things have to be changed somewhere along the line. And I can also remember the V8SC oopsie. Which is why I'm a little puzzled as to why we keep seeing content getting teased. The TT VLN was teased back in what, January? And every time this happens, everybody knows that there'll be absolutely nothing more to report on that particular subject for at least 4-6 months. So why the hell does S3 keep announcing these things? All it'll result in are interminable threads on the variation of "Are we there yet?" Wait until there's something even resembling a time-line. It's like standing up on April 13th and shouting "Don't forget Christmas is coming!" While it's undoubtedly true, there seems little reason to spur into action at this present moment. Finally, there's the corporate structure and what it means to the private consumer. As far as I can figure out, KW Automotive owns S3 and RaceRoom (and presumably SimBin as well). S3 is hired to develop a sim for RaceRoom for use in their on-track events. The game for 'private' simmers seems to have sprung from a need to generate a cash-flow to pay for the development. All of which is fine and groovy, except...... It means that we (the private consumers) can't ask KW anything, since none of the workforce is likely to have ever heard about this whole thing. We can ask RaceRoom, but they'll tell us that S3 is developing the software, so we should ask them. We can then ask S3, and they'll tell us they're not calling the shots, and they're developing whatever RaceRoom needs/wants. And round and round in circles we go...... As I said earlier, I don't envy the position S3 is in. Being stuck between the guys who have the paychecks, and the guys who complain on the forum must be a cast-iron bit....female dog. But the whole thing does beg the question: If S3 doesn't have control over what gets developed and when......Why do we have a forum run by them in the first place? I am actually a huge fan of the game, despite my somewhat cantankerous musings. It is a vastly under-rated sim in my opinion, and delivers immersion like no other sim around at present. So I do actually have a huge amount of respect for not only S3, but the beta-testers as well. But having said that, when you combine the pricing structure, the uncertainty of what may or may not become of R3E and the (at least to my mind) questionable decisions with regards to communication strategy, and I'm getting more than just a little miffed.
Might as well queue up the disappointment now It isnt going to live up to expectations simply because people have unrealistic expectations since the last patch. Just look at old patches to see what is going to happen. The game will get bug fixes, improvements, and other general additions... perhaps with some of the content that has been teased but not released. This is how most of the patches in the past ~2 yrs have been like. That aside, plenty of good fixes and improvements to come.
As it was announced as "Tidy up Patch" a while ago, I guess noone is expecting miracles but just a tight work over in terms of general game performance and functionality in MP and SP mode, with maybe some new implemented features and content that will put a smile on your face - and I'm pretty sure this is what James (as far as I know his posts and contributions) is wishing for as well ...
Sure, but after all this time I would like some solid features too. While Sector3 must have valid reasons for such an extended period without an update, my concern is the fan base will lose interest and drift away. That's a problem for any 'continuous development' project that has a fairly small player-base to begin with. Look at rF2 or Wreckfest as examples of games that are dying a death due to glacial development. Not suggesting R3E is in such a predicament, but it could be without a step-up in the pace of development.
But why does not come a feedback from R3E, only one info and we would have less worries But since that does not happen I am very worried For me, R3E is the best sim. I hope we'll get a feedback to our open questions soon
Because new features are difficult to implement and polish it till it works. Do we really want to have half baked flags system that yellow flags when you turn at slow chicanes like AC or blue flags that barely worked in pcars? However, I still agree that it had been far too quiet for too long. It is nice to see teasers but I have concerns whether will we ever see all the teased content in the game. AC had promised many cars in the past, like the Alfa Romeo 33, SCG P4.5 Road, Ford GT GT3, Ruf RT35 and so on where even after 1 year or so, these cars still have no sign of appearing in the game. If not, some of them, like the P4/5 Road is cancelled.
Already there, I stick around because I still think R3E has a lot of potential and if S3 finds their momentum again I believe it could be realized, but as the game stands now? I haven't seriously played it for a while now, the AI killed any enjoyment I was getting out of my last DTM championship and the generic displays bug the hell out of me, at least both things are on the to do list but I will be seriously bummed if we've been waiting months for what boils down to minor tweaks and fixes while other sims are making far greater strides. Edit: But it looks like all of S3 is checking the forum right now, hype meter rising. =) Edit 2: Fika over it seems, false alarm.
The whole setup is a bit complex. From what i have understood there is an owner of Raceroom Entertainment AG which is KW suspensions. Raceroom Entertainment AG is the publisher of R3E. Sector 3 is the development studio which is hired to create the game. I looked up the business model and it became clear to me that the game itself is just a tool to fulfill their strategy as Raceroom Entertainment AG. It seems that their business model lays beyond the home user. I think that the demand comes from raceroom centers instead of this community. That is why S3 can't tell us anything. They are a party hired to do a certain job which is develop and not telling the company's strategie.
While what everybody's saying about the corporate structure appears to be true (not an insider, so can't know for sure) please also keep in mind that this isn't sth out of the ordinary. Especially, but not only, in the gaming business the developer and publisher of a product/game are independent entities in most cases. Who stands behind the publisher and funds the projects is on another sheet as well very often. There aren't many companies that can afford to finance, develop and publish a game on their own. In most of the other instances the consumer simply doesn't know about the financial and corporate structure behind a product, but that doesn't mean that there's no shadow men who determine the general direction because they also carry the entrepreneurial risk of the whole thing bellying. With RR/S3S/KW at least all that is publicly known and everybody's free to draw his own conclusions from those facts.