This is why the kick or ban is necessary

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Lachaussette, May 21, 2018.

  1. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    Hehe, you will love this. Once he starts to get furious you will love it. :D You can jump to around 11:40.



    First time ever I heard him almost loosing his contenance. LOL

    Moral of the story: "Don't get out of the way!" LOL
     
  2. Balrog

    Balrog Well-Known Member

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    AngryBox
     
  3. Lachaussette

    Lachaussette Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    I'm learning a new way to drive :D
    [​IMG]
    It works very well, I think I will be a new talent, problem is that I did not finish the race :confused:
     
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  4. Lachaussette

    Lachaussette Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    Marvellous!
     
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  5. StefB

    StefB New Member

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    Is there a ban option planified for next updates ? These guys are really boring, maybe trying to bring people to other supports ?
     
  6. Florian Wexxxx

    Florian Wexxxx New Member

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    Edgardo Ferri the name, the legend. Totally a dirty driver that will do anything to take you out when you drive next to him. 20+ experiences with him over the past 8 month.
    My problem is raceroom, yes the game itself never gives you any informations on how to drive properly. (hello driving school?)
    Remember when the game was popular last november (1k+ concurrent users). Most of these drivers on the server had no idea what was going on. Something like a driving school you have to finish would help here, you can skip the driving school but you appear as ghost at all times. 107% rule during qualy, if you are bellow a certain threshold you car will be a ghost.

    A report function is only viable, if you can clip the incident via an ingame function. What is much easier to do is an honor system like in league of legends. After the race you can award drivers with helpful, teamdriver ... crasher etc. At a certain threshold you will see these informations/symbols. Everyone on the server will know, oh this guy is a dangerous driver i have to be careful. (admin can ban a driver that has a negative standing)
     
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  7. lucaf9397

    lucaf9397 Member

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    What I also wonder, that you can't (or can you, how?) find out the racer's profilename through the replay file.
    So a racer can hide behind his nickname and change it on every race. I wish I am wrong with this.
     
  8. [RWB] FxUK

    [RWB] FxUK Well-Known Member

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    The kick ban feature, imo, can't come soon enough.

    Obviously I am talking about kicking / banning from our own servers, not game wide. But dedicated server owners / clubs / leagues should have control over their lobbies. Incidents happen, that's fair enough, but there are a few people who are just out right destructive and if they are on your server, there is nothing you can do about it other than password protect the server and lock it out for everybody else. Everybody else suffers for the actions of that one person and locked servers is not how clubs / communities grow and meet new drivers, most of which, so far, have been great to race with.

    I would rather the ability to kick/ban one bad egg, than lock it from the entire community, which in turn would provide a better experience overall.
     
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  9. Goffik

    Goffik Member

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    Right, so we shouldn't get a ban option at all then? :rolleyes: If a few server owners are banning people for legitimate driving techniques then it won't be long before their servers are devoid of any activity. Why penalise the majority that are trying to keep bad eggs away from our races by continuing to deny us an option to kick/ban people? Plenty of other games have the option and it is not destructive to the game at all. Kick/ban may sound like a harsh term, but the reality is that it's nothing more than a management tool, one that should have been added a long time ago.
     
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  10. RWB Rodders

    RWB Rodders Member

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    One of the first things that surprised me about Raceroom (being an MP only player and the first thing I do before even playing a sim is to look for being able to run a dedicated server - no dedi and my club won't play the game) was the lack of a kick/ban feature on the MP lobbies, dedi servers in particular.

    Open public lobbies are where clubs meet new drivers. You have to be able to run them. Being able to run a clean public lobby that people get to know as a good place to race, is largely dependent on the admins of that server being able to keep it clean TO THEIR DRIVING STANDARDS. Sorry for the caps but that statement is important. If I setup and run a dedicated server, it's my server. I make the rules. That's how setting something up works - you put in the effort and create a place for others to enjoy, you get to decide the parameters.

    This is impossible to do if you cannot enforce your rules.

    While some may indeed abuse the kick ability, how popular do you really think their lobbies will be? They will die quickly. Bad hosts get policed by the community by people just not going into their lobbies - problem largely solved.

    The inability in any way to kick people off YOUR server however basically makes it open season for everyone. From deliberate rammers there just to destroy your race to good old incompetent drivers to people with a ruleset that doesn't match yours - they all get to do whatever they want.

    This will and does harm community building in a game. We at RWB have been running public lobbies regardless and already only a few weeks in to the club playing Raceroom, I'm getting nightly calls to move to a locked room. If we can I now do run a closed lobby. I'd rather not be as I love meeting new drivers but the lack of any ability to control who plays on it without a password being set makes it hard.

    We have actually had to deliberately haze bad drivers and bully them out the server just to keep our lobby running cleanly. This is not something I want to be doing but there is no other option unless we are willing to just sit there and let any twat ruin our races. I ain't going to be a victim. I'll take action.

    In other games RWB have played we got a reputation for being a good place to race precisely because we closely admin our servers every single night. We kept the worst out and had an ability to manage people based on our clubs driving standards. Did we kick the odd person that might not have deserved it? Yes I'm sure we have (I'd also add that about half the people I've kicked won't think they deserved it and that was not down to them doing nothing wrong but being blind to their unfair driving styles - they will no doubt be on the against this side and cite unfair kick when in reality the kick was fair and they need to be a bit more aware of other people on track). My point is I'd like to build that reputation in Raceroom but it's looking impossible as it stands.

    At the very least you have to enable dedi servers to kick people via the API - you actually have to come out the game to do that so will reduce unfair kicks by twats who want to do it to win races (as they have to stop driving to do it). Several times in other sims, when a really really disruptive driver is on track - we all know the type; ram your way through every corner, slow down to take people out and the like - I've stopped my car at the side of the road, opened the API, kicked them then continued my race. That ruined my chances to win but in the face of someone destroying the entire race, it's essential.

    Please please pretty please with sugar - give us the ability to at least kick people and temp ban. For me it's just a basic requirement to run an online game server and you have to accept that yes, some twats will abuse it - but they won't have very popular lobbies and will fade naturally into the shadows.
     
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  11. yoori

    yoori Well-Known Member

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    No one (I guess) says that you should not be able to refuse access to your server to wreckers, etc. We argue that ban is not the best way. And I certainly would rather see Sector 3 release reputation system and option to set limits in dedi tool. It's a better use of dev time imo . That way you can have have open lobby refuse access to offenders you don't even know and all that without an admin online.
     
  12. NL-Jos

    NL-Jos Well-Known Member

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    A reputation system wich can notice who the deliberate rammers are.
    I think that this wil be impossolible without punishing the wrong person on the driving licence (that case wich is nee after the last update A-B-C etc behind your name)
    I prefer a ban or kick function to.
     
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  13. [RWB] FxUK

    [RWB] FxUK Well-Known Member

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    Maybe ban is the wrong word.
    How about "Blacklist from servers you are in control of".

    Ratings and rankings are great, for sure, but that also changes mentality of racers.
    In PC2 for instance, you would find people who would do absolutely anything to win a race, even if it meant everybody else got rammed off track, just so they could get a few 'skill points'. If somebody was beating them, they would lose skill points, so that's (I'm guessing) where the abuse side of it comes in to play, they would abuse the system and kick them to secure their lead, for the points! Sidenote, I wish PC2 didn't have the "points side" and just stuck with the safety one. Many others held a similar view.

    Safety rating was a good idea, but people have to start somewhere. You would also find people who would go out of their way to "destroy" others safety ratings, for sh**s and giggles.
    The situation would be no different to a password locked server (kind of) in that you would exclude a lot of people because they haven't yet made it to the ranking level specified for the server.


    I'm new to R3E (had it years ago, bought full pack in December) so that would be me excluded from such, at the moment, along with, no doubt, a lot more players. So why punish/make it hard for the many to enjoy the sim, because of the odd idiot?
     
  14. lucaf9397

    lucaf9397 Member

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    The kick feature can be implemented in many ways but it can't work well if the game's user interface is not flexible and user friendly. Live For Speed is a good example where kick voting offers perfectly what it needs to offer, in multiplayer system. But it leans all to the brilliant user interface of the game and it's social support which is not reality in R3E.

    A kick vote process is not just a press of button (like Assetto Corsa developers were probably thinking, that's why it sucks there). You want to be able to quickly watch around what is happening. You want to be able to communicate fluent and flexible with all others on the server. You want to be able to see what others are talking. You want to be able to write longer sentences than just "hello world". You want to be able to point your message to specific user. You want to hear a specific sound when somebody points a specific message to you. You want to be able to watch the replay quickly. You want to see who started the vote and who others are voting. etc. etc. Just as an example...
     
  15. [RWB] FxUK

    [RWB] FxUK Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I agree with what you are saying lucaf9397 but that's a different kind of kick functionality. That sort of thing is useful, I guess, for un-manned servers, but requires a different way of thinking / implementing.

    Jumping in a completely random server, where everybody is a stranger to each other is a completely different scenario than a club with numerous members racing on their server, whilst allowing random players to join and hopefully build a bigger community of like minded people.

    The main thing I would like to see is for the server API. "Managed' servers, where there may be club admins available in voice chat over discord (or similar), intended to keep the club's servers respectable and fun for anybody on them, without having to resort to a full lock-down (passworded). Of course, there are times when admins won't be around, which is why a blacklist is also welcomed (individual server side). With enough proof of a bad apple, the admins could then choose to blacklist said player from joining our servers in the future.

    I'm looking at it more from the perspective of providing a more open respectable racing environment for clubs/groups rather than from an individual players point of view.
     
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  16. ndwthx1138

    ndwthx1138 Well-Known Member

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    How often do you guys see stay on a server after a race?

    I ask because I see that occur less than 10% of the time. Wouldn't a kick function be too late for 95% of the issues from intentional wreckers or way to novice drivers? Meaning you start a race, some yahoo decides turn 1, lap 1 is the best place to make up 9 places (basically ever race at monza) - everyone agrees and kicks this person out. But the race is ruined and you go to the next server looking for better days.

    A kick that resulted in multiple days or more being banned from a server does something. Might make some servers better for sure.

    But I would sure rather see a rating system deployed. I know many will argue this reduces the amount of people who can or will play. I would argue iracing and srs have shown this really isn't the case. In fact it brings people to the sim. People want fair competition. It's by far the best thing about iracing (it's not a great rating system but it does indeed make people more serious and bring like minded people together more so than not).

    I certainly don't mind a kick function - but seriously unless the guy is ruining peoples practice and qualifying I don't see it doing much. With the ability to never run a single lap in qualifying, or a 110% rule like in real racing, I don't see the kick function doing anything to races being ruined. Rating systems make people strive to get into better servers or series as it were.

    just some thoughts/opinions
     
  17. RWB Rodders

    RWB Rodders Member

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    Some fair points mate.

    To respond to the one about a kick function being largely useless once the race starts. To begin with, I do most kicking in qualy. If I'm primary admin I stop my qualifying with a few minutes to go and do some monitoring. It's easy to spot wreckers or just plain awful drivers that will, though not through ill intent, still ruin races. My server isn't their basic training ground and I personally think it's bad form to join MP servers without a basic level of competency.

    However, kicking during the race is still an essential component. I will stop driving and kick someone if I have to (and have done so many times) just so everyone else can enjoy the race. This largely avoids the scenario you describe where the race is ruined and people leave. Quite the opposite in fact as people notice and are impressed at how hard we try to keep the lobby clean.

    The last main place I kick people is back in the lobby. In this situation what commonly happens is one of our members has had an incidet with someone during the race but it's unclear what happened and will raise it with the other driver. How that discussion goes will decide on whether they get to stay or not. I'd say about 1/3 of the time they get kicked due to agressive, rude or otherwise unacceptable responses.

    I get the idea of a rating system and if it's well implemented then great, but I still assert that a basic kick function is essential. Even just a kick that puts them out that race and they can join the next one is fine and TBH I only ever perma banned the worst of the worst - deliberate wreckers and rammers. In 2 full years I only perma banned 12 people but it was important I did as any of them would single handedly ruin entire nights racing if they could.

    I also think the main argument against this - tyrannical admins kicking everyone or kicking others to win races, is more of a fringe problem and not even remotely big in reality - just when it happens people speak up. In addition and on a point I made earlier - in my experience half the people I've kicked thought they were in the right so they will be in the pool of people expressing being "unfairly" kicked. This makes the perceived problem even smaller than it actually is. It also is a self solving problem as people learn to avoid these people's lobbies. In essence I think you are solving a problem that is very small and looks after itself.

    So in summary I think having no ability to kick creates a far bigger problem than being able to kick. Everything carries a downside and all we can do is pick that with the smallest slope.
     
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  18. yoori

    yoori Well-Known Member

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    Don't underestimate r3e most notorious trolls. After all it's free to play hence little consequence you can always create new steam account.
    People exploit every single possibility. Remember that they can name their server with your community name then start crashing and kicking people.

    I agree that admin tools are needed. But you need to be careful when giving people tools to destroy fun for others. It might hurt r3e as much as it might help .
     
  19. ndwthx1138

    ndwthx1138 Well-Known Member

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    Your server and efforts sound amazing! How do I join! Seriously?
     
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  20. RWB 3vil

    RWB 3vil Member

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