I prefer the old FFB

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by neil, Jun 23, 2021.

  1. Fleskebacon

    Fleskebacon Well-Known Member

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    I agree to a certain degree, but these effects shouldn't dominate the FFB and they should be optional. Like they are now. Upping the bump amplification and engine vibration should add more "livelyness" to the wheel.

    I used to like a lot of these "immersion" effects in the wheel, but after I installed buttkickers they are kind of superfluous, as I get information and immersion from vibrations, bumps, gear shifts etc. from the buttkickers instead. I don't think the wheel is numb and artificial at all, but I do understand your point of view, and a few years ago I would probably agree with you. Feeling bumps and vibrations is immersive, but it isn't really that useful information for steering the car.

    I don't consider "canned" effects unacceptable in any way, they can give you useful information through the wheel. But these effects will so easily overshadow the information you REALLY need through the wheel. So to drive the car efficiently, I think it's better to have the wheel behave like in a real car.

    You're missing out on a whole bunch of information that a real car is giving you in any case, so it's a matter of priorities - what information is THE most important for you?

    The individual taste for immersive effects in the FFB is hard to define, and it's hard to meet everyone's demands. But when it comes to how much and how accurate information the FFB is giving you about what the car is doing, I don't even think it's worth a discussion: The new FFB outclasses the old one in this department.
     
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  2. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    I think you guys are talking about very different things. He is talking about G-forces and rotations you feel with your back in a real car. They aren't only bumps and vibrations, I'd say these are only a minor part of real life feedback, so adding them through your wheel or shakers doesn't substitute real life forces.

    Then, just because these bumps and vibrations aren't all that useful, doesn't mean that all the other real life forces are also not useful. In fact, they are considered to be a crucial part of feeling your car in real life. Having something that conveys this information to a player is not only about immersion.

    That, again, is quite debatable. What information do you "really" need on your wheel when it's often said that you don't feel all that much through your wheel in a racing car, but the majority of important information comes from your seat? Saying that any additional information will take away something absolutely important from your wheel, well I personally don't believe it's like that.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 25, 2021
  3. SuperMonacoGP

    SuperMonacoGP Member

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    strange how the new ffb made r3e great and finally playable for (almost, with just a few ecceptions) dd users and worse for the majority of belt driven wheels' owners. I'm in the first category, the new ffb on s2 is night and day with the old one, in a super positive way. but i wonder why this is not the case for the thrustmaster/logitech etc. users who had to rely on canned effects to compensate what the wheel can't do for his nature.
     
  4. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure you can say that, at this moment. Just because the majority of complaints come from belt/gear wheel users doesn't mean that most of these users are unhappy. It only means that the new FFB has more chances to be disliked by belt/gear wheel users than by DD wheel users, but not how big the percentage of unhappy users is.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2021
  5. Thomas Jansen

    Thomas Jansen Sector3 Developer Beta tester

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    Considering how many people are using belt/gear driven wheels compared to DD wheels, I think there is probably a larger proportion of the DD users that have complained so far.

    edit: overall the response has been super positive though, which is very nice to see.
     
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  6. Whipdiddywhip

    Whipdiddywhip Member

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    everyone i got to try it just tried it, had no feeling at low speed corners then quit and just when back to acc, the same number of people who silently just play the game and don't say anything here also just stop playing and go to something else

    if you get a lot of feedback saying somethings not right don't just dismiss it as a "a few people"
     
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  7. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    On the other hand, people are more likely to give feedback if they have a problem than if they are satisfied.
     
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  8. Thomas Jansen

    Thomas Jansen Sector3 Developer Beta tester

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    We haven't dismissed anything, my main point was that there is not really any indication that the new FFB has been received less well on belt/gear driven wheels vs DD wheels so far.
     
  9. P Davies

    P Davies New Member

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    I'm using a T300,I have 75% Gain in the control panel, Everything else in the control panel is set to 100%,Ingame I am using the New stock settings with no Immersion Effects,I can feel the curbs the bumps everything,It feels more precise and I feel I have more control.For me it feels great.
     
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  10. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    I watched your video and went to test the slow speed stuff. I'm just not feeling the same as you. The forces are there for me just fine on a t300 so I'm not sure why you're not getting them on a DD. Makes no sense.

    I'm assuming you have used the car multiplier to adjust for each car? And haven't messed around with the wheel rotation or anything like that?
     
  11. Fleskebacon

    Fleskebacon Well-Known Member

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    I absolutely agree, that's not what I meant. To put it another way: There are limits of how much information the steering wheel is able to give you. Giving too much information through the wheel will become a mess and be impossible for the common man to interpret.

    G-forces from the seat is one of the most important sources of information a car provides, that's a fact.

    But I don't think it's possible to properly simulate these forces through a simulation steering wheel, because that's a completely different instrument, which is not at all suited to simulate g-forces. I think it's better to leave the steering wheel with providing the information that it would naturally deliver, in a precise and undisturbed way. That's an opinion, which is absolutely possible to disagree with. :)
     
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  12. diego chaparro leon

    diego chaparro leon New Member

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    Tspc belt driven user here. Really happy with the new ffb. It's's really detailed and with a lot of nuances.
    This sim is getting better and better :D
     
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  13. Pierre Hox

    Pierre Hox New Member

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    On my CSL Elite, I don't have details nor nuances... Only a "weight" when I turn the wheel, but no sense of losing grip even if I hear the tires squeal.
    All settings in-game are default, on wheel : FF : 100, DRI : 2, FEI : 100, FOR : 100, SPR : Off, DPR : 100, SHO : 90.
    What "magic" setting do I have to change to feel something ?
     
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  14. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, I don't know how it's possible to simulate 6DoF forces when you only have a 1DoF device. However, taking from what people say, some games apparently can imitate some of these forces (i.e. make an impression of them) at least to some people. So, probably there are still some tricks available on a 1DoF device.

    When dealing with so much subjectivity, we might think that finding one common ground (e.g. properly simulated forces on front wheels) can at least be a good enough solution. Can it? Will people accept it as "good enough for everyone" or will it be yet another countless attempt at FFB that some people like and some don't? Time will tell, but for now I don't see why this approach would be universally correct or objectively better than anything.
     
  15. kloan

    kloan New Member

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    Hello, try FF : 100, DRI : -2, FEI : 70, FOR : 100, SPR : Off, DPR : Off, SHO : 100
    In game :
    FFB Linearity: 100.
    FFB Minimum Force :1%
    Bump Amplification : 30%
     
  16. Pierre Hox

    Pierre Hox New Member

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    Thx for your answer but on my wheel, I can't choose -2, only off or 1 to 5.
     
  17. KudBkuik

    KudBkuik Active Member

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    With DD-wheels, we have some additional settings and they generally are used to some extent. Damping is one that I normally use but, in titles with "Gryro", less damping is likely needed. Too much Damping can have major impact on the response with under/over-steer effects. This is the first place I would focus my attention when steering response feels out of balance or sluggish.

    Friction is another one but, I reserve this wheel-driver effect for a tight center-feel and to add a bit of weight to the overall steering feel. When done correctly, some older cars should still convey a slight loose center feeling while modern ones will feel very precise near center.
     
  18. Michael L

    Michael L Member

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    I'm not sure how to tell the nuances either. Could anyone please describe a little more details how did you feel the different ffb conveyed from the car to help us out? Thank you!
     
  19. Arthur Spooner

    Arthur Spooner Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like you're not using the latest drivers and firmware. You might want to update. Just a suggestion though...
     
  20. Pierre Hox

    Pierre Hox New Member

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    apparently, I have an older model of CSL Elite, the "Xbox" one and on that wheel, DRI can't go negative.