I prefer the old FFB

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by neil, Jun 23, 2021.

  1. nickh158

    nickh158 Well-Known Member

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    You've probably hit the nail on the head. If you now only replicate the forces you would actually feel through the wheel in reality, you're going to miss out all those equally important forces that come through the seat (which is most of them.).
     
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  2. ⅀ℕiↅϻΔ

    ⅀ℕiↅϻΔ Member

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    T500RS
    Settings
    to me works on All Cars its not perfect but brings back more V.load speed -roadfeeling and Curbs and stuff
    FFB linearity 70%
    FFB minimal Force 5%
    necessary to get roadfeeling back
    standfriction 90%
    Immersion
    one effect is needed to make it work
    FFB bump amplification 35%
    necessary for Curbs ,asphalt edges,manhole covers and
     
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  3. MattYKee

    MattYKee Active Member

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    I've given up.. 25 hours trying to get to grips with the new FFB has resulted in me hating it even more.
    Uninstalling
     
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  4. Whipdiddywhip

    Whipdiddywhip Member

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    i'm finding there is no mid corner feeling, just feels like a centering spring, no indication of understeer or grip, gives it a spongy or springy feeling
     
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  5. nickh158

    nickh158 Well-Known Member

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    In this video, he comments on the lack track FFB...
     
  6. azaris

    azaris Member

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    He also thinks he can feel track bumps from laser-scanning on a track that isn't laser-scanned. A bigger nonsense-merchant does not exist on YouTube.
     
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  7. Whipdiddywhip

    Whipdiddywhip Member

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    yeah he comes across as a bit of a snake oil salesman to me, like how after ams2 update he claimed it was awesome, then immediately changed his mind after jimmer made a video saying the opposite, he's definitely playing the youtube game with click bait and saying things that are flavour of the month, he does have a few good videos though
     
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    Last edited: Jul 6, 2021
  8. Papa Emeritus

    Papa Emeritus New Member

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    That's so ridiculous! The new FFB is absolutely amazing! Control cars without false effects.
     
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  9. Kayak83

    Kayak83 New Member

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    This right here. Was definitely more so with the "old" FFB but it definitely still a defining characteristic of the R3E FFB. Corner loads feels like a lot of centering spring force and not a lot of FFB "chatter" in the details- which I would prefer.

    I get it's all subjective....But I'm curious if those who like it are on DD wheels or belt/gear wheels. I used to really like R3E's FFB on my old T300, but when I got a DD1 the feel changed pretty immediately for the worse.
     
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  10. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    No. I'm on a t300. And it's substantially better. There's less useless vibrations and more detail in what the car is actually doing.
     
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  11. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    ALL ffb is false effect. Because no computer knows by itself what kind of feedback it should produce with attached hardware if no programmer told it by an algorithm what to do when. Seen this say socalled canned effects and dynamic ffb effects are much the same and vary only in degrees of detail and subtelty they are able to generate. But they both base on artificial design decision defining their tolerances.
     
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  12. Thomas Jansen

    Thomas Jansen Sector3 Developer Beta tester

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    That is just semantics, what we mean by canned effects are effects that would not be felt in a real steering wheel of a car. So the exaggerated understeer and tire slip of the old FFB would be examples of this. The immersion sliders in the new FFB would also fall into this category, and purely for immersion there is not really anything wrong with canned effects as long as they are done well. Where the issue comes is when you add canned effects to try to convey information about car behaviour/control, such as the understeer or slip effect. Initially you might feel that they are helping you feel the car better, but in reality you are learning to react to the wrong cues in the FFB, which will only make driving harder in the long run. Which is exactly why we have gone for realistic steering forces only, with some optional immersion-focused effects on top.
     
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  13. Whipdiddywhip

    Whipdiddywhip Member

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    there needs to be something in the ffb that indicates grip loss in my opinion, currently it's all sound and visual now the understeer effect has gone, the old understeer effect was a good substitute for the real life g forces where you'd feel understeer, (especially as you could dial it from 0-100 so everybody could have the effect as little or as much as they wanted)

    FWD cars feel especially weird and spongy/springy without any understeer effects
     
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  14. Skybird

    Skybird Well-Known Member

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    I see. Still, I disagree with the underlaying idea that the more realistic the reduction in "cheated" feedback cues from the interface, the closer to reality things in the sim are. Its not that simple, or linear. Because the simulated reality is not the real reality. Its a reduction of it.

    Lets put it like this: many people point out that a real driver with helmet and earplugs for comms will not hear screaming tires. Still, he feels a lot with his full body that a PC player will never get in informational feedback, no matter his rig, motion seat, FFB wheel. The unrealistic noise from the tires provde him some cues that compensate for the lack of cues from for exmaple physical presence in the real moving car. In total, the realism may have gotten a raise by using a "cheated cue".

    Or in flightsims, when some players think its more realistic if they switch off automatted assistants that carry out some duties of the second officer in an airliner cockpit, and think that is more realistic to do it themselves. Actually, it is less realistic. An airliner pilot flying is not supposed to do everything in cockpit, thats why there is a second man in the pit. So why would a sim flyer do the job of two all by himself?

    What I mean is sometimes "cheating" aids of certain quality and content do not reduce but increase realism. Because these cheated cues transport information that compensates for lacking sensory feeback from of a PC platform and motion rig and VR helmet and FFB helmet.

    And since I said in another thread on FFB that the new FFB to me looses the feeling of real mass and weight of the car, and the cars feel toy-like now, way too light, free of mass: the new FFB may provide me with more nuances and details - but still I am more disconnected form what the car does and how it interacts with the track, the swing and gravity of things moving.

    And I do not even mention the immersion break again.

    All in all, this: I feel more like playing a game now, and less like driving a simulated car. Thats it, in a nutshell.

    Thats why the new system has kind of lost me in most cars I tried. Its not as immersive anymore, and I cannot realise as clearly as before how the car is doing in that turn. ACC does this now clearly better, imo. It has the nuanced feedback PLUS the feeling of real mass. RR may have more nuanced feedback now as well - but at the price of having lost on the feeling of real car mass and weight. Tastes are different and so are the aims of people playing. To me the price is too high, the gain does not justify the loss. As I said in the other thread, I could have happily lived on with the old system.

    But then, nothing lasts forever, I know. Maybe its just time for me to cut back on RR after almost six years. There is more fish in the sea. RR is not bad, and I will never talk bad of it. I just think the gains do not justify the losses on this new FFB. I occasionally will come back to it in a few of the cars, and do some of the tracks the other sims do not have.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 11, 2021
  15. KudBkuik

    KudBkuik Active Member

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    I do think the new RR-ffb is better in terms of the physics-based effects but, I'm not at all against some canned effects for immersive purposes either. I don't think there is a "right or wrong" ffb, it just depends what the user-priorities are; racing performance for competition (vs.) driving immersion, for example. The best indicator of front grip-loss in RR is the audio cues (tires), not ffb.

    The best ffb (imo), comes from rF2 (newer S397 content). It's the only title that seems to communicate front-tire grip-loss effectively through a progressive steering resistance while still providing some road surface effects to both enhance detail and add to the grip-loss effect. This provides me the best sense of cornering forces (through ffb) in any sim.

    The classic argument remains the same regarding ffb: absolute realism vs. immersive effects. Totally realistic ffb would be boring and very uninformative imo, not what I want in my driving simulation experience. Still, I respect the opposing views and think options should always be available to the player, not purposely limited or dictated solely by the developer.
     
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  16. carlos de hoz

    carlos de hoz Member

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    Well, every time I am more out of the raceroom, the ffb at least in thrumaster. It has become horrible in my case, I have already updated bla bla etc. maybe by observing the comments. I am much more realistic but by God it is very boring. gt3 is now disappointing to see the cockpit shake .and my steering wheel or move is absurd. to lose grip in the curves and not notice anything on my steering wheel is absurd to hit another car and not feel anything is absurd.e been driven last week in am2 and smiled again. but for that multiplayer. today I've already been trying crazy things in the ffb and I'm at a disturbing point I felt better lowering the general ffb and raising it on track assigning keys. I can feel some of the wonders that some speak see if anyone can confirm that I have those same feelings to see if I can not give up and get to continue in my favorite title for years
     
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  17. Maskerader

    Maskerader Well-Known Member

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    Interesting...
     
  18. ravey1981

    ravey1981 Well-Known Member Beta tester

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    Overall strength and car multiplier does the same thing. No magic to be found there.
     
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  19. carlos de hoz

    carlos de hoz Member

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    [QUOTE = "ravey1981, publicación: 226625, miembro: 15210"] La fuerza general y el multiplicador de automóviles hacen lo mismo. Allí no se puede encontrar magia. [/ QUOTE]
    Yes I know .but I feel less cushioned and that makes me feel a minimum loss of grip and a little movement in the curves little but after 2h doing desperate tests is a light at the bottom of the tunnel
     
  20. Kayak83

    Kayak83 New Member

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    To my point....in my old T300 I really enjoyed the FFB in R3E and expect it to be better with the new FFB as well. When I got my DD1 I was pretty underwhelmed in R3E. Still am, but to a lesser extent wit the new FFB.