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Initial Feedback about the Force Feedback...

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by VFX Pro, Jun 23, 2021.

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Do you agree with my feedback on the new FFB below?

  1. Big Time!!

    35.0%
  2. Somewhat

    30.0%
  3. Dude, what are you smoking?

    35.0%
  1. VFX Pro

    VFX Pro Active Member

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    First of all, great work @Alex Hodgkinson. The new linearity feels amazing, especially the long turns (ie Monza). I'm on a Fanatec DD2 and after testing different cars, I have 3 areas where the new FFB (or immersion settings could improve).

    1. Kerbs. The impact of the Kerbs on the steering column feels great but it is currently too low, it needs to be boosted a little (or provide a setting to adjust). I have driven many super cars on tracks, and can confirm the current impact, especially on sausage kerbs (Monza), or small repetitive ones in (Zolder) is too low.

    2. There are no more tyre scrubbing effect/feel when the tyres are about to lose grip. That is really sad, because it was a good sensory input to determine the "edge" of the grip.

    3. Driving on grass now feels like we're on ice. Of course, no one wants to drive on grass, but when I tried it on purpose, the new feeling feels like the grass is completely flat.

    Please view this as constructive feedback. This latest round of improvement is a huge step up.

    Keep on the great work!!
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2021
  2. sbtm

    sbtm Well-Known Member

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    1. Is it really an FFB thing and not a curb modelling issue? I think the newer tracks have modelled curbs while older ones still use very flat ones.

    2. I don't have a Fanatec wheel, but on my Simucube 1 I have the effect you seem to miss on your wheel. I set the "Reconstruction Filter" in the Simucube settings to minimum (it was at 9 before the update). This filter basically dampens the effects as if you put more rubber on a tyre. On Sims with very hard signals it is useful to tone it down. Maybe there is something similar in the Fanatec driver.

    3. I remember most grass being bumpy as the gravel traps pre Update. If this changed now I like it better. Or I missed your point. So far, I didn't have the impression that the grass is just flat. But didn't do full blown off-road laps yet
     
  3. VFX Pro

    VFX Pro Active Member

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    @sbtm
    1. You could be correct, I'll try newer tracks and confirm.
    2. and 3. Yes, Fanalab has a FFB interpolation filter, I will turn it down and see if it addresses the "tyre scrubbing" issue and perhaps the grass flatness as well.

    Regardless, I'm super happy with the overall FFB improvement.
     
  4. VFX Pro

    VFX Pro Active Member

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    @sbtm I have turned off the interpolation filter and tried new tracks, same issue.
    1. No tyre scrubbing whatsoever, so that a small step back in my opinion, but perhaps, they will continue to improve the new FFB or add the "immersion" setting back.

    2. After considering your opinion, the grass is not that flat...I'm okay with it. Perhaps, me turning off the interpolation filter, might have "surfaced" the small grass details better..
     
  5. Steve Redfox

    Steve Redfox New Member

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    Big Trouble Exit T9 Hockenheim : Since the update, I keep crashing all F2, FR90 and FR17 cars as well as the GT3 McLaren on the left curb at the exit of T9 on Hockenheim. Formula cars are shot up in the air and land turned around. This happend repeatedly. These are curbs, but work like catapults. Crewchief shows and sends a message that the suspension of the car is completely smashed and nothing can be done....I drive Hockenheim almost daily, but that has never happend. Is it possible that Curb-height has been changed to an extend that it catapults the car through the air when hit with the Front-spoiler/splitter ?
     
  6. Steve Redfox

    Steve Redfox New Member

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    Now to the question on new ffb :
    I use a TM TS-XW at 100% in the TM driver settings and preset ingame standard settings . I had already to increase the individual car ffb modifiers by about 25-30% in order to get a somehat similar impression of what I have in AMS2 since their recent FFB / physics update. Which is great btw and on par if not better then in ACC.
    R3E update is certainly a noticable improvement over the prior one, especially for the frontwheel drive cars. The Astra feels great, like it should feel..I know this car. Also the Formula cars seem to be closer to reality then before.
    Other then that:
    - Little feedback from the tarmac/ changes in surface structure.
    - No or almost no bumps on the tracks which is kind of unrealistic for Imola, Hockenheim, Oulton and many others. Especially in the braking zones.
    - GT3 cars seem to have very low steering ffb power ( or to high servo setting ? ) I changed that from 1.5/6ish to 2.0/2.2
    - Very little impression of the road surface...In AMS2, I could almost feel single holes or stones under the tyres.
    - No scrubbing of tyres. I hear the screaching but feel next to nothing.
    - curbs are now way more "rough" up to the point they are outright car-killers ( see my post above )

    Keep up the good work !
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. VFX Pro

    VFX Pro Active Member

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    @Steve Redfox That is strange, since for me kerbs have been dulled down. I'm going to try Hokenheim right now.
    About the road surface, crank up the "road bumps" value... and your minimum FFB settings as per recommendation (if your wheel is less than 5 Nm
     
  8. VFX Pro

    VFX Pro Active Member

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    @Steve Redfox I just tried Hockenheim, and I don't have the issue you are describing. Make sure to delete all your car setup from your My Documents/My Games/SimBin/.... CarSetups would be my advice. Actually, you can delete the setups more easily from within the game actually.

    I really do miss the tyre scrubbing effect... the only sim that was providing such effect.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2021
  9. RampageRacing

    RampageRacing Well-Known Member

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    I can agree with one thing. The curbs seem to be very muted. I have been on Mid-Ohio and I can attest that hitting some of the curbs there is a lot more dramatic than it is in the game right now. For example, hitting the beginning of the curb on the right going into the keyhole will set your teeth to chattering in real life. In the game, you can barely barely feel it.
     
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  10. VFX Pro

    VFX Pro Active Member

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  11. VFX Pro

    VFX Pro Active Member

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    One thing that is amazingly evident now, is the ability to catch a rear traction loss... much more natural. Try it with a high suspension car that sways like crazy, like the touring car series.... :)
     
  12. KudBkuik

    KudBkuik Active Member

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    The Engine Vibe effects can cause grainy FFB, I had to turn that off.

    I agree with missing the scrub effects.:(

    Increasing the bump effects will increase the rumble-strip effects but, I had to increase it quite a lot. I also added some Inertia to boost road effects a bit too.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Steve Redfox

    Steve Redfox New Member

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    I had Roadbumps @ 50% and even 100% in order to get a kind of similar feeling I have now in AMS2 and to some extend in ACC.
    It does what it says and I think it is an improvement vs. the pre-update version . Again , only to a certain degree compared to other sims. So it still does not provide the exact same feeling. So I don't know what it exactly does. Will check with lower settings later today and report here.
     
  14. Steve Redfox

    Steve Redfox New Member

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    Well it does what it says in the description. It adds no effect other then vibrations to the steering wheel...as it was normal with race cars the older they are and the higher their revs....In todays servo and electronic wheel world, you won't find it. My old C3 still has some, the old T-Bird not....but this car has 2,2t of steel and upholstery and no vibrations @ all
    I keep this effect between 5% for everything older then 10 years and 10% for for the older rest. Younger 10 years you might use less then5% or simply turn it off..it is only an immersion effect with no real consequences on how the steering behaves....unless your fibgers could get numb after a while....like it was with a number of my motorbikes in the past, that is....
     
  15. Steve Redfox

    Steve Redfox New Member

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    I started with 50% and it began feeling kind of alright, until I found that Problem in Hockenheim (T9 exit Mobil, curbs left side )...will check again lateg and report here..
     
  16. Shad

    Shad New Member

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    I wonder if maybe this is a Fanatec DD issue. I have the same issues on DD1.

    Road feel and curbs - I can get a relatively good road ffb with 1%min force and about 80% road amplification. Anything less makes it super flat and smooth. I was at couple of tracks and some are super bumpy. One exception being Autodrom Most which now has new tarmac and is baby smooth.

    Scrub/Tyre tearing - this is my main cornern and the reason Im rather disappointed. In a real race car, you can feel the front tyres scrubbing, skipping, tearing, etc. really well (depending on the car) and with the new FFB all I get at the grip limit threshold is emptyness, literally...

    I tried everything, resetting settings, DD1 profiles (I dont use fanalab or anything fancy, just raw dd1), tried checking clipping tool and combination of high FFB, low DD1 setting, vice versa, highest car multiplier, lower, etc.

    I love the new weight transfer feel, thats well done but this is kind of a deal breaker to me tbh. In the old FFB I could at least add slip feel and tune the frequency and curves in the file.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. Steve Redfox

    Steve Redfox New Member

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    OK..here the first results of my Hockenheim testing this morning.
    Spoiler : the crashs were reproducable with FR3 and FR2 cars. FrJ has no Problems.
    It boils down to a combination of factors : Strength of Bumps and roadheight of the car in question.
    Testing :
    I did testrun with FRJ, FR3 and FR2 with their standard setups as provided by R3E. I started with Road FFBs of 10 and went up as follows : 20 ,30 ,40 , 50, 75 and 100%.
    All stages provide indeed subtle nuances and had different impactd on the tyres, suspension such as springs and dampers.This includes behavior and temperature of tyres , which are the most obvious ones even without having special telemetry sessions.
    Also ,as a driver in an open-wheeler, one can visually follow the physical reaction of the frontires when running over curbs, curbguards or simple bumps/waves in the surface of the road.
    This shows, that devs did indeed a great job in modelling all these factors and parameters in way that each change in this road effect provides indeed different results..take a light and s omewhat slower car like the FRJ and try it yourself.
    You wont feel avll the nuances in a Camaro SS, I think...
    However, for me the most "realistic" feeling was provided at 75% bumpiness ( at least for Hockenheim GP ) and sl7ghtly higher FFB multipliers per car ( +0,2 - +0.3 )
    Now to the cause of the weird crashs at the left curbs after T9 :
    It appeared first with the FR3 in 4.Gear at 170km/h and a setting of 75% bumpiness.
    I haven taken screenshots but need to find them and load them up. It happens out of the blue.
    So I followed my initial idea and checked the roadheight of the FR3. It was set to 4.3cm Front and 5cm rear.
    I changed this to 5cm/6cm and the problem was gone, even at 100% bumpiness.
    Then I checked the setup of the FR2 and noticed already only 3cm Front height...so chances are high that the same thing happens as yesterday but even at lower bump settings...which was exactly my experience yesterday.

    So as a first conclusion, I have to say, that ecerything with roadheight of at least 5cm Front and rear and rather stiff suspension like a formula car, should have no problems with bumps at 100% in T9 Hockenheim.
    I have no clue about other curves/ curbs on other tracks, but may devs could look into the car setups whether someething like 3cm is really realistic in sight of potential dynamics popping up with adjustable roadbumps.
    I will certainly look at roadheight now with more interest then in the past....
    All the best
    Stefan
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  18. Alex Hodgkinson

    Alex Hodgkinson Sector3 Developer

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    @Steve Redfox 20-30mm ride height can be considered fairly regular for a formula car dependant on under floor aero which is fitted with third springs. Those springs hold the car's right height close to optimal at speed rather than letting it compress excessively due to downforce. They also allow softer corner springs so compliance over bumps can be improved.

    So, it's not ride height which is the issue at Hockenheim. It seems like there may be a particular part of the curb, maybe a polygon which sits at an unfortunate angle and causes this problem. Will pass it on to be investigated.
     
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    Last edited: Jun 24, 2021
  19. Steve Redfox

    Steve Redfox New Member

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    Hello Alex,
    thanks for the quick reply and the explanations. Yes, I suspect there is problem related to missind distance between undercarriage of tje car and highest polygon of the curb. When you hit it, it's not like something is cracking and no parts fly away as I could see in the video. It's like the whole car is jolted high up in the air as if it would catch a steep ramp upwards, thereby smashing the whole suspension. The cars spirals through the air and labds on the drivers helmet...sliding another couple meters in the tarmac before it comes to a halt in the green.
    Again, it happend today with an FR3 @ Roadbumps 75% ( not @50%) and yesterday with an FR2 with Roadbumps @50%...exactly the same accident and subsequent behaviour...
    I could provide the replay of this mornings FR3 ride, if I'd know how to post it here....

    All the best
     
  20. Vi42per

    Vi42per New Member

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    +1 for basically every sentence. The weight transfer feel is a great addition, but if it was for the sacrifice of what you well described as "scrub/tyre tearing", then the price was too high. As you correctly identified, the scrub is indeed present IRL while driving a race car and now that it is gone (at least for me on DD1), it is a step back. On a positive note, it is an only thing (however substantial) I am truly missing, otherwise well done S3.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2