As I stated before, really love the formula raceroom Jr. Great cars to toss about, learn tracks and test different lines, unfortunately tracks like road America are nearly unplayable in a race with them. They run far to close to you, something always happens. In a full body car I learn to expect nudges, swipes and hits and it is just part of racing, open wheel require far more care and awareness.
The hardware settings is just default 50% sensitivity. As for deadzone I'm running 0-95. The reason for the small deadzone at the top is that my brake-pedal is pretty stiff, so in order to get to 100% brake-pressure I need to press REALLY hard. And after a few laps that starts to hurt my knee. In-car settings pretty much depends on the car, the lighter the car the lower the pressure. Usually it's set to 100% for anything tin-top. Open-wheelers I've got somewhere around 90-92. They're a lot more fickle, and my footwork isn't great so lowering it means less chance of lock-ups. Something like the Porsche Carrera (which is really fickle) I might go as low as 85% Generally speaking, I brake earlier and softer than most of my opponents. I can't out-brake most live opponents, and certainly not the AI, so I don't even try. So I tend to focus on keeping the car stable, rather than trying to get an advantage by balancing it right on the edge. I mean, if you are able to use 99% of the braking-capabilities each and every corner, by all means take advantage of it. I know I can't do it, so instead of risking everything, I'd rather focus on exit-speed. Mainly a matter of personal preference, and ability. One of the reasons I'm so enamored with the FRJ is that in order to overtake anybody in that, you have to utilize the draft. And in order to do that, you have to stay right on his ass through every corner. So you learn pretty quickly how to adjust your speed to your opponents, in all circumstances. Doesn't mean I'm any good at it, mind you.
Oh, and since this thread started as being about the adaptive AI, let's return to that subject. I actually managed to get a (semi) complete database of the AIs laptimes done. There are however a few caveats. First, it doesn't list every track-layout in the game. With a few exceptions, it only lists the times for the major layout of each track (usually the GP layout). I do have a few ideas on how to automatically generate plausible times for the sub-layouts, but that'll be implemented if/as/when I get time. In the meantime, it would be a safe assumption that your level on the main layout should be roughly the same on the other layouts, so you can use the main layout as a guideline for which level to run on the sub-layouts. Second, I can't code so I have no idea on how to automatically insert these times into the adaption-files. If you know how, you can manually insert the times into the adaptation-file. If not, use the times listed as guidelines for which levels to run in order to get the adaptive AI up to speed. Same as training it, this'll just give you a better idea of which levels to start with. Third, and most importantly, these are approximate times. I really can't stress this enough. There are a ton of variables that can affect the laps, and the data I based the calculations on is fairly marginal. And there is no way I can possibly test every single combo. So there will be the odd spike, in particular with super-long and super-short tracks (Nords and Brands for example). Same if you run 'odd' combos, like the FRX at Norisring. Having said that though, during the testing I've done the generated lap-times are within 1-2% of the actual lap-times, so if you bracket your actual level with e.g. +/-5, you should get a decent result. OpenOffice spreadsheet. Just select your combo with the two drop-down menus, and it'll spit out approximate times for it.
After the patch the same problem The bots never try to avoid me. Three years with the same problem and it was never resolved
Noting that I primarily drive GT3 cars, the ai are fantastic. They are challenging, punish me for my mistakes by taking advantage of me leaving any space to pass, or braking too early etc. Pretty much in all of your above examples you either left the door open for a pass, tried to cover your position from a fast approaching car and were off the racing line. If you did that in a multiplayer race a real opponent would have probably tried they same thing. I think the main problem is that you are not aware of what’s happening behind you or if you are you a too aggressively protecting your position. Think of it like this....you know the ai are aggressive so drive accordingly. The game is a heck of a lot more challenging with ai like this because just like having a real person behind you, you can never 100% trust they are quick enough or smart enough to predict your driving inputs I’ve tried few of the games that have sliders for ai aggressiveness but no matter how much I tweak the slider they still come no where near as close to the quality of the ai in this game. The ai in this game are smart enough to allow you close racing but just dumb enough to make you think they are human
The AI is very good now. Perfectly raceable and challenging. All I ask for is some life to the races. Where are the mechanical failures and retirements? Where are the mistakes and crashes? How many real races do you watch with no crashes and retirements? This is all that's missing for me.
Not really. They will occasionally spin when in a large pack of cars on the first lap but other than that it's extremely rare for an AI car to make any kind of mistake that leads to a spin or crash. Retirements never happen.
In fact I had one AI retirement since I played RR. It was a car going in the wall at the first corner at Norisring. Also the AI can save the car and bring it back on track in the most ridiculous situations when every human would spin into oblivion. I think the AI is pretty good in RR but it would be much more fun if it was less predictable.
I have seen AI cars retire at Salzburgring when they slam into the tyre stacks on the insides of the first chicane. It's more to do with AI clumsiness when racing in a large pack rather than a 'coded' driving mistake. Other than that, they never retire. Having the occasional engine/brake/electrical failure/crash would add more excitement to single player racing, knowing the guy in front (or you) could drop out at any moment.
I was actually thinking about starting a separate topic about the AI awareness but will instead add my thoughts here. I have to admit that generally AI is very good and it doesn't feel like they're an obstacle. I like that they're rather agressive and don't try to avoid you like mad, which is what ruins racing for me in PC2, where they instantly pull away from you as soon as you're side by side with them. Having said that, there are a few exceptions though. As some of @Nano 10's videos demonstrate in some occasions AI just keeps going no matter what is in their path. I've had countless of races ruined by this behaviour and after analizing reviews I only have one explanation for this - their "frontal awareness cone" is far too small. I'm guessing there is an area in the front of the cars (which probably increases and decreases based on the speed) to detect obstacles and trigger AI to slow down. If that's the case then I think it becomes too small at slow speeds causing situations like these, where AI is unaware that there is actually an object in their path, and because they're behind the player, they push into the rear sides of the player cars either causing us to go wide or simply run off the track and spin. I think, even though some people say it's not an issue and that it's all player's fault, it does need to be looked into. I've rage quit some of my races because some of the incidents have been absolutely ridiculous, as in, I could be on the racing line taking a turn and AI comes barging in pushing me out into the gravel or into other AI path causing me to lose 5, 10 or 15 positions. The same can happen on a straight where AI just decide to move to one side or another not realising that my rear is in their path.
Exactly Cypher The bots try to push, hit and then get off track, instead of avoiding you. My videos are so clear and your explanation perfect.
Okay, so now we're talking specific situations instead of the AI as such being un-raceable? Well, that's progress at least. First of all it wouldn't be explained by a too small awareness-cone. If that was the case, even assuming it's very small at slow speeds, then they should still brake when they hit you, right? If you look at replays, you'll usually find that when the AI hits you it's with one of the corners of the car, never front or sides. Which leads me to suspect that the awareness-area (for lack of a better term) is angular extending out from the sides, instead of circular. So you end up with the odd blindspot. Pure guesswork, and I'll be the first to admit that I haven't a clue how the AI does things. But it does seem logical. And just for the record, I do occasionally get hit by the AI. It's very rare though. No comparison to i.e. PC2 where I get pounded to bits on a regular basis. Which leads me to the second pit-fall that people usually encounter when switching to R3E after doing other sims. Running too high an AI level. One of the biggest issues with the R3E AI is that it's very dependent on having the 'right' AI level set. If you're more than a few levels off, the racing becomes pretty bad. I think it's because higher AI runs at a higher pace, and if the player is 'too slow' the closing speeds are simply too fast for the AI to react. But again, pure guesswork. I will say though, that if you're getting repeatedly rammed by the AI, I'm willing to bet vital parts of my anatomy to the fact that you're running too high an AI level. Keep in mind that not only will your pace vary from combo to combo, the AI pace will vary as well. So just because you're running level 110 with DTMs at Spa, that doesn't mean you'll necessarily be able to do the same with GT3s at Hockenheim.
CheerfullyInsane i race with Adaptative AI, 90%, 95%, 100%, 105%. In the video 11 (after the last patch) i brake late but still hit me hard behind. In videos 10 and 12 (after the last patch) i put pedal to the metal but still hit me. In PC2, AC, F1 2017, Automobilista the AI is hard but not dirty like Race Room.
Late? You're braking at the service-road, so about 160m before the corner. In the FRX I brake at 100m, and I'm not particularly fast. Nope. In both cases, you're massively off the racing-line. In 12 you're so far off the racing-line that your exit-speed is compromised. I agree that the AI shouldn't have hit you in that one, but you're not putting the pedal to anything. 10 is a little harder to judge. You're trying to hold too tight a line to keep the AI behind, instead of drifting off to the right like you should. Listening to the engine, you're completely off the throttle coming over the crest. Granted, it's a poorly chosen place for an overtake, but it's also pretty poor defending. Tell you what, do me a favor and upload your aiadaptation.xml file. I'm a little curious to see what AI level you're running vs. your pace. You'll find it in your Documents\My Games\SimBin\RaceRoom Racing Experience\UserData\Player1 folder.
@Nano 10 I bet you hate racing multiplayer! The AI in this game are much more forgiving and more predictable than real life players. Do you find the same problem in the gt3 class?
Trust me, I'm a lot of things...admirable is not one of them. Anyway, I've had a brief look and the levels you're running with are a bit off. Not by as much as I suspected, but still. It's not too bad with the lower classes, but you're running the open-wheelers with much too high AI. Couple of examples: FR2s at MidOhio, you're running 102-103. It should not be any higher than 97. FR2s at Nurburgring, you're running 102, when it should be around 95. FR2s at Chang, 102, instead of maybe 94. And while 5 levels of difference may not sound like much, it's a difference in lap-times of 2-2,5 seconds. Can't find any lap-times for the FRX or P1s though. Presumably you've been punted before finishing a flying lap. But one thing you can do to improve on things is work on your consistency. Whatever AI level you run at, it'll run at a fairly steady pace, so unless you can do consistent lap-times, you'll have a hard time finding the right level. And quite frankly, your lap-times are all over the place. Even if we remove the fastest and slowest lap, there are still large variations: GT3s at Nurburgring, you lap between 2:04.8 and 2:08.0 Silhouettes at Imola, between 1:52.8 and 1:55.9 Silhouettes at Hungaroring, it's between 1:59.8 and 2:02.7 By comparison, from my own index-file: GT3s at Nurburging, between 1:59.6 and 2:00.1 WTCC at Mantorp, between 1:17.4 and 1:18.0 Silhouettes at Road America, between 2:15.5 and 2:16.2 Granted, we can all have a bad lap now and again, but over 3 seconds of variation is a problem.
Don´t know if this has been discussed anywhere else, but when there´s an accident on track the AI seems to slow down in shock and don´t go full speed until the next corner. If you´re aggressive you can make several positions by just racing past them. I guess it has to do with how their awareness is programmed, but it´s not very realistic. At Zolder for example if there´s an accident at the first chicane, the cars that avoided the crash seems to drive with 70% throttle over the crest and doesn´t go full speed until after the second chicane. Did anyone else experience this? I race the AI at 109%.
Switch off the flags, that'll help. But yes, the AI behavior when there are crashes is a little weird.